Re: If you like destruction -
 

btw you took the engine out incorrectly. do a search on this site and you will see that you have to take all the sheet metal off first :-)

Re: If you like destruction -
 

I was terrified that I was going to scratch it all to :devil:, but I took my time and didn't drink any beer during this operation! The front sheetmetal was such a bear to get lined up right that I knew I'd beat it up more trying to take it off and put it back on, so I just pulled her heart our as she sat.

Now it's just a waiting game until my 532 is finished, probably 8-10 weeks. I'll be back to burning rubber and banging gears this summer.

I did call Derale about the fan issue and as expected, they 'have never heard of or seen this before', so I offered to send the guy the pics, of course he declined my offer, but was happy to give me the part number so I could buy a $130 replacement fan...

Re: If you like destruction -
 

i don't pull the hood and i don't scratch anything :-)
i would if i pulled the sheet metal

Re: If you like destruction -
 

I've seen a couple pics on the site of guys pulling small blocks with the hood on. Pulling a BB with a scattershield bolted on the back might have been a little 'snug' with the hood on, but I'm sure stranger things have happened.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

I had the same thoughts as you with taking sheetmetal off, I was afraid of more damage plus the whole thought of lining it back up. I pulled my BB out a month or so ago with just taking the hood off. Good luck on your next build.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

I'm subscribed to your build thread, so I'll be following along as you get yours back on the road.

As soon as the ball really starts rolling on the 532 that I'm having built, I'll post up pics and detailed info. All the short block stuff has been ordered, so I'll start a new thread with the engine/powertrain changes - I'll be using a RAM 'Force' 10.5" dual disc clutch with a modified TKO-600.

Also, I don't know if there is any chance the driver's side head from the 468" can be repaired? Does anyone have any experience with an aluminum head getting clobbered like that and having it fixed?

Re: If you like destruction -
 

I don't know about fixing the head, there are a lot of skilled individuals out there that can do some amazing work. As far as me getting back on the road, I've been bouncing back and forth between Ls swap and building mine back. I don't know if it's a sign but the machine shop called today and said my block and crank was done, so I should probably just take my rods and pistons up to them to get balanced ;)

Re: If you like destruction -
 

The head can be fixed. A good machine shop that knows how to weld can fix it. The heads are Edelbrock? Did you bolt them on right out of the box? They are notorious for having tight guides, valves assembled with no oil on them, and installed spring heights way off. Looking at your picture of the valve stem stuck in the guide, it looks like the stem is blue from heat. Again that is just from the picture. If that is true then that would tell me that the valve was starting to gall from that above reasons. If this is true I think it hung a valve open and smacked a piston. the 2 piece valve snapped off and left you with the mess you have there. Thats what I see from the pictures.

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Yes, they are Edelbrock RPM oval port Marine heads, but not quite bolted on out of the box though. The marine heads don't come with valve springs. They had been ported, put on a flowbench (so I could get the cam spec'd to the heads) reassembled with Crower hardware (spings, retainers, locks) but re used the valves that came with the heads. The work on the heads was done at a shop, so I did not personally check the valves/guides. Once I get some more time, I'll disassemble the heads and try get a better look at the valve and the guide.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Well that is a good thing then. That means that they were looked at and assembled with care (we hope). You made a good choice going that route.

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The short answer.. ABSOLUTELY repairable.
The aluminum head repair is a pretty common thing to upper end machine shops that build drag motors. (we're always bringing in carnage for them to fix) I've had a number of SBC aluminum heads (AFR and Brodix) heads repaired and they come out just fine.

AFR and Edelbock alloy is a tough one to weld from what I hear. If you have issue finding someone more local, PM me and I'll put you in touch with a couple guys who will steer you right. Just make SURE they have experience doing aluminum head repair on aftermarket heads, Just any ol hack with a TIG and a die grinder isn't what your looking for.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Hey Adam, just checking in to see how the BB build is coming along.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Heeeeeey!!! I wish I was as far along as your rebuild is (I'm SO glad you stayed with the big block!!!) Not much as of yet, machine work is complete for the shortblock, final assembly should begin soon. Then all the port work on heads & intake will take some time. I'm looking at probably the end of June. Transmission isn't finished yet either - so I've taken the time to redo some wiring, install a new fan controller and a few other things. Got all the Hotchkis stuff installed too.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

The Hotchkis goodies should be awesome!!! As soon as my buddy gets his 460 he built for his mud truck off the engine stand we are going to start reassembly on mine. That motor of yours should make some serious horsepower when your done.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

.
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Any updates on this one?

Bummer to hear about the 'fresh' 454 though.

.
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Re: If you like destruction -
 

I finally got the transmission a couple of weeks ago, it's a TREMEC TKO-600, but with a full internal upgrade by Liberty Gears - polished & cryo-treated gears, bronze shift pads, carbon fiber synchros, threaded front cluster bearing support and PRO 5.0 shifter. It's going to be backed up by a RAM 10.5" twin disc clutch with an aluminum flywheel. Both will withstand 900hp. The 532" should be right at 800hp, so I have a little 'wiggle' room. :uhmk::lol: I had to stick with TKO transmission due to how I originally built my frame center section and trans crossmember. Frame is all powdercoated and I really didn't want to have to move anything around, so the upgraded/fortified TKO-600 was about the only option for me over the TKO-500 that was previously in the truck.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

800 Hp and a 6 speed, that will be awesome:metal:
Any new updates on the motor?

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I hate to disappoint but it's only 5 gears. I don't know about awesome, but I'm sure it will scare the hell out of me the first few times I hammer on it after it's all broken in. I'll be putting in a call tomorrow about the engine. It's supposed to be finished this month, as I had time set aside to go pick it up from their shop in TN.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

My bad, I misread the post. Anyway, it's still going to be awesome!!!!

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Update from the builder - they're saying 2-4 more weeks, which isn't really what I wanted to hear. I'll keep you guys posted. I'll try and get a video of the dyno session and I'll definitely post up the dyno sheet and pics when I pick up the engine.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Nice build choice... sorry for the beginning result! --

Chris and Scott really are the cream of the crop for engine building. Glad to see you are going with them for your new build. They are doing some of my work and it will ALL be right the first time!!!!


Great looking truck too by the way, ;)

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Finally some engine porn. Ended up going conservative on the cam, since driveability is the name of the game and huge cams usually don't get along with manual transmissions w/OD at 'cruise' rpm. Power will be in the mid 700's as a result, but the torque curve should be nice. Hitting the dyno on December 16th. This engine build took WAAAAAY longer than I ever expected, only second to the 18 months of paint prison. But like the guy that painted my truck, I'm 100% confident in the fanatic attention to detail that went into every aspect of this piece. At least I know what I'll be doing this winter...

Re: If you like destruction -
 

I need a towel.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Here are some specs:

Dart Big M block, 4" Scat 4340 crank, 6.535" H beam rods with ARP2000 bolts. Mahle 4.60" x 13cc dome pistons and rings, Gen6 Rollmaster timing set (for step nosed cam), Straub custom billet hyd roller, .903 Morel hyd. roller lifters. Heads are ProMaxx 317cc w/2.30 intake, 1.88 ex REV valves, Associated springs, Straub design/Sharp rockers specific for these heads, Smith Brothers 7/16 pushrods in GM guide plates, ARP screw in studs and Jomar stud girdle. Intake is a ported Vic Jr and AED 1000hp 4150 carb on a SuperSucker spacer matched to the enlarged plenum. Balancer is Romac, oil pan is Stefs/B&B, oil pump is Melling M77hv.

Cam is just a little guy. Builder called it a 'baby cam' :lol: - 250* @ .050", .650" lift, 107LSA.

Heads flow below:
Right port / left port / exh
.2 167.1 / 161.7 / 134.6
.3 248.3 / 238.6 / 179.1
.4 312.1 / 305.6 / 228.1
.5 359.9 / 348.9 / 267.9
.6 389.0 / 371.8 / 287.1
.7 401.5 / 385.2 / 295.5
.8 401.9 / 387.2 / 300.9
.9 408.1 / 392.3 / 304.3
1.0 411.0 / 394.3 / 305.7

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Me too!!!!!

Re: If you like destruction -
 

What heads?? and did you use the correct locks and retainers..
I.E. 10 * retainers with 7* locks..
why it drop a valve??
or did it drop it from valve float.. or coil bind..

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Heads are Edelbrock RPM Marine ovals as described in the previous posts. 10* Crower locks & retainers, #87055. Springs were Crower #68363. If if was the wrong retainers, I would think the whole valve (stem and all) would have been in the chamber, not just the head of the valve. Retainers were still intact as shown in the pics. I ordered everything from Crower after talking to them about what heads & cam I was running. Crower SS Enduro rockers. Pushrod length was measured during assembly and ordered accordingly. I'm very confident it was not coil bind, and unlikely that it was valve float, as I'd spun the motor up higher than the rpm that the valve failed and never gotten any indication of valve float. Not to mention both Crower and the guy that did the cam (Chris Straub @ Straub Technologies) said the springs were right for my the cam and set up accordingly. I think given where the valve broke, it was fatigue or maybe the seat wasn't perfect and caused it to fatigue somehow? I really don't have a 100% sure answer, as I am just a shadetree hack at best - which is why I posted everything up to get some opinions. The head itself and the valves were not new (they came off another engine), but all the other hardware was.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

On a lighter note, the 532 is finally finished and hit the dyno 2/10/16 (sheet attached). This is actually the second time it was dyno'd, as the first go around they experienced some issues with some guideplate/pushrod interference and had to pull the intake off the check it all out, as they initially thought it was a lifter issue. I must give credit Straub Tech/Foxwell Motorsports for making it right and getting this thing dialed in. For some reason, the dyno shop only had a 2" primary x 3" collector header available (WAY too small). With the 2" header, the peak numbers came to 785hp @ 6500 and 705#/ft @ 5100. Pull was from 4000-6500rpm, with the avg for both HP & TQ being 675. I am having headers built for the engine, (since I can't find off the shelf 2 1/8" headers for a C10) but the guy doing the headers here in Arkansas obviously needs the engine in the chassis to build the headers. That being said, I was not able to send the proper headers for the dyno test (it was dyno'd in Greenvile, TN). 2 1/8" primary x 3.5" (or even 2 1/4" x 4") would be considered the 'right' size for this engine/power level/rpm, and would almost definitely shown another 20-24 horsepower. Both the builder & dyno shop agreed power would be around 805-809 and about 300 rpm higher with a 2 1/8 or 2 1/4 primary.

There is an engine dyno local to me, and if he has a set of bigger headers there I may strap this thing down again before installing it in the truck. I most definitely will put it down on the chassis dyno to see where I'm at after the install. I'll keep you all posted.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Glad to see you have made it to the dyno.

I know you had mentioned earlier about your engine bay being just how you liked it, and I have to say it looks absolutely fantastic, hopefully everything falls back into place without issue.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

I read this thread in the past and was pretty sad to see the carnage as I just built a 421 mouse for my longhorn and know the pains of trying to do all the right things and still getting derailed at most turns.

That being said CONGRATS!!!! on the 532. You will be much happier with it.

I am building a 72 swb super. I am going to build a 572 with the new magnum 300 heads. I will have a 4L80E to put in. It needs some work first though. Hoping for 700 WHP

I am interested to hear how the headers go as I will need some too. Also interested in what size exhaust u are running as well as routing

I wish I was closer to take a closer look.

Mine will have the no limit wide ride ifs and the trailing arm kit as well from them with coilivers and 14" wilwoods.

Are you planning on putting some tire under it to try to hook it up?

Good luck and maybe one day I can show you how to put a shift kit in that tko ����

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sub'd

Re: If you like destruction -
 

I am wondering if your failure was from incorrect parts..
Edelbrook "marine" heads would not be set up for high rpm.. and fast rpm changes(shifts) as a marine engine is loaded and no transmission..
not many marine engines humming past 5000rpm.
The valves included would be more for long hour run time under high loads not, high rpm..

Re: If you like destruction -
 

It already has some tire under it, 345/30/19 on 12" wide wheel. I'm fairly certain that 705#ft will rape any street tire. I have another set of 18x12's that may get a 345 MT drag radial if I ever go to a dragstrip. My 'shift kit' is a full workover by Libery Gears and a RAM 10.5" dual disc clutch :lol: I like my hotrods with 3 pedals.

The Edelbrock Marine heads come with a black anodized coating and the only difference in valves are the addition of Inconel exhaust valves, and no valve springs/retainers come on the heads from edelbrock. Other than that they are exactly the same as the Performer RPM/GM ZZ big block heads as far as I know. Of course I could be wrong. I had already made the decision to get the head fixed for use in another project and I'll be replacing all the valves at that time. I had the heads checked out and put on a flowbench before I ran them on the 454, but obviously that didn't matter.

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Maybe.. I'd have to call them.
but I'd hope a car set would have 1 piece intake valves.. if not all, the ones for roller cams.
Marine use a 2 piece valve would be no issue.. as it be lumbering along at 3000-4500 rpm.. set rpm.. or less..
Did you check the spring pressure after tear down . seat and open to see if at it's installed height( in head as used)it was within spec for that cam??
I.E. did it float the valve.

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I haven't checked the spring pressure, they're still on the heads. I gave the spec sheet to the shop that set up the heads, and I didn't check them myself after he set them up.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...m-marine.shtml

They recommend use of Performer RPM cam, hyd roller & Performer RPMintake, those are all spec'd for 6500rpm operation, per Edelbrock. Don't know why they would include valves that wouldn't be good for the same RPM.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

Not asking if the springs where set up correctly..
I'd like to know if the spring is NOW at the correct spring height and if the on seat and open pressures are still in spec.. As this will tell you if the spring lost strength and allowed the valve to float..
if many of the springs installed height is wrong.. you'll see that now.. but I'd want to measure more than just one for this. as the fails spring if it weakened will most likely be shorter now than when installed..