Re: Alternator question
 

Fusible link issue:

I assume this is the terminal by the battery that you are talking about:

I have 4 wires.

the one on the left that looks black goes to a fuse then across the radiator and into the wires going into the cab. I think it's part of the ammeter?

The red one on the left goes across the radiator to the junction.

on the right, top one goes to the battery.

the right bottom one goes to my aftermarket a/c fan power.

So I don't see a fusible link. Thinking the top right red one is the one you say should have one? If so, I can add one. The wire looks pretty heavy - probably 10 gauge. So I should split this and add 6-9 inches of 16 gauge with a fusible link? This sounds like it would easily blow, but I will take your word on it.

One other thing, I'm getting the non-adhesive tape, was thinking that as I was unwinding the original today :)

At the risk of repeating myself,

THANK YOU!

Re: Alternator question
 

The red and brown wires that used to go to the regulator but will now go to the plug on the alternator do not need to be 12 gauge, they can be something smaller such as 16 gauge. The red one senses the voltage level at your main junction some feet from the alternator, and the brown one senses whether the ignition switch is on and in some trucks grounds a generator light on the dash. So those are not heavy current applications.

Regarding The wire looks pretty heavy - probably 10 gauge. So I should split this and add 6-9 inches of 16 gauge with a fusible link? This sounds like it would easily blow, but I will take your word on it. The fusible link wire is available in 16 gauge, which is 2 sizes smaller than the 12 gauge you have running to the alternator, and has a flame-proof insulation. It is supposed to burn up if you have a severe short somewhere, instead of allowing your truck wiring to burn up. It's a sacrificial wire that acts as a kind of fuse. It's available at any car parts store, and I've only seen it in grey color lately.

Re: Alternator question
 

thanx - the fusible link will go on the wire that goes from the junction above to the battery, correct?

Re: Alternator question
 

Yes, it is shown on the wiring diagram with a resistor symbol, although it is not a resistor nor a resistance wire. I guess they couldn't figure out a better symbol to use.

Attachment 1782973

Here is what mine looks like. The smaller black wire coming from the positive terminal is attached to the grey fusible link wire, which then connects to the terminal block.

Attachment 1782972

Re: Alternator question
 

Well, the alternator from the camero that you recommended fit perfect. So clock position, mounting, pulley, existing belt - all that looks perfect. Very happy on that front.

Got the 16 gauge resistance wire and will add it as you instructed.

Re: Alternator question
 

Here is a pic of the terminal strip I got.

I would like sent my new 10 gauge output from the alternator to one of the large posts. To the other large post, I would like to put the old 12 gauge output wire that goes to the junction. This way, I could avoid extra wiring and cutting up the junction.

Then the fans go to the screws in the middle.

Cool?

Re: Alternator question
 

I used to get CS130's with the plug at the junkyard for about $30 but only if they looked fresh with good bearings and usually with an overhaul sticker. They sure do charge better at low RPM than the 10si's. A listing for an 89 Pontiac Safari is a CS130 that has the V pulley.

Re: Alternator question
 

The strip in your picture looks like it will work well. Attaching the old connecter is something you will have to do, but!, You won't need the old alternator output wire since you've replaced it with a 10 gauge wire, so it's basically a dead wire now. The one from the battery is absolutely necessary since it's a charging wire for the battery and it's critical for the ammeter to work. It's size and length is programed into the specifications of the ammeter gauge.

The other red wire is the cab feed wire and you can use it to feed the firewall block. It's a 12 gauge wire which should be adequate for the fuse and instrument panel especially if you convert the headlight power from the headlight switch to to a couple of relays on the radiator support.

I would concur with DJLambert's idea about the oil pressure switch to shut down the engine, but is it necessary? If you are running an electrical fuel pump possibly, but the mechanical pump is going to stop fuel flow when the engine quits, and if you lose oil pressure your gauge will show that, and I assume you will be watching those. Modern vehicles use warning lights so they might benefit more than our old trucks JMO.

I like Vince1"s idea about the CS 130 or the 144 especially about getting the wiring plug. They are a bolt in for the SI 12 but try yours and if you decide to go to the CS it is easier than the conversion you have just done. In fact you can buy an adapter that will plug into the SI end and then will plug into the CS alternator and it has the extra resistor installed. I think they run about $25. The best part is that they were used on just about every Gm vehicle made since 1994.

Re: Alternator question
 

This is interesting info. Changes everything for me. I've been thinking about how the Mad Electrical web page http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...elcoremy.shtml does a good job talking about 10SI and 12SI alternators, how to recognize them, and the APPLICATION DATA section is the most interesting. It's what to actually ask for in the parts store to get a 10SI or 12SI, because you can't get one by asking for a 10SI or 12SI.

I have not seen a similar web page for the CS alternators. The electrical FAQ does not (yet) have anything about the CS alternators regarding an application. So, if I want a CS130 or CS144, not from a junk yard but from an auto parts store, I flat out can't get one, because nobody has revealed a usable application, until just now when vince1 did. Prior to now, if I don't have experience at junk yards that have older model cars, and if I don't want to just order something from Amazon or eBay and not really know what I'm getting, I was just out of luck.

Thanks for the post vince1.

Re: Alternator question
 

I'm confused a little. I have the new 10 guage wire going from the alternator output to the new terminal. But, I'm thinking that I have to get power to the existing junction (solder by factory) by the headlight. I was going to do this by taking the end of the old alternator output wire that I cut from the alternator, but is still hooked up to the old junction, and send it to the new terminal because that's where the vehicle gets it power from. Am I wrong here?

Re: Alternator question
 

The cab feed wire is soldered at the factory junction, correct? So if I send one of the wires from the factory junction (the old alternator output) to the terminal that is getting power from the new alternator output, that should be good?

Re: Alternator question
 

I think you are correct. You need to feed that factory junction and you use the old alternator wire to do it, unless you get rid of the factory junction and attach those various wires to your new junction block. If you wired them individually to your new junction block, you may need to extend each wire or replace some if the wires, because some may not be quite long enough.

Re: Alternator question
 

Thanx.

This should be a non issue, since I left my junction unmolested. Right?

Or, if this is a reference to the other junction, the one by the battery - I'm leaving those wires alone as well.

Re: Alternator question
 

DJ, you said 2 grounds on the alternator. Can I use the factory one that goes to the fender by the junction, and just add a 10 gauge to where the fans ground, or should both be heavier?

Re: Alternator question
 

No the reference is to the new junction. I had to separate the old junction wires because the alternator is now on the passenger side of the engine. I replaced my alternator output wire with an 8 gauge wire wire so I didn't need the old output wire for that, but I used it to power my coolant fan. My battery charge wire and the cab feed wire were long enough to reuse. One wire I forgot to mention is the black/white 18 gauge wire for the ammeter. It was soldered into the old factory junction so I just connected it to the new terminal with the alternator and battery charge and the ca feed wires.

The other ammeter wire that connects on the right fender junction runs straight to the cab firewall block and then straight to the cluster plug to termina 12. I ran it to to the terminal strip to a separate terminal and continued it from there to the cluster plug.

It is much easier to separate the old soldered, or crimped junction, wires and just do away with it. I am sure the wires aren't going to reach the junction so I would unwrap the harness and just use the one's you can and replace the rest after you reroute all of them then you can retape all the wires for a clean look.

Attachment 1783475


Just remember that all the wires you connect to your junction will be full time hot, and any keyed on hot wires like ignition and start and accessories will require a different junction or switch.

It doesn't matter which wires you connect to the junction, they will all be connected together.I would connect the alternator output, cab feed and alternator sensing wire, to one big lug, and the battery charge wire, and fan power wires to the other big lug.Then you have the smaller terminals to use for other relays.The brown exciter wire for the alternator to no. 1 on the alternator has to be keyed on power so, it will need to run to a separate connection or else straight to the alternator if it is long enough.

Re: Alternator question
 

Thanx.
That would be better, vette, but I've decided not to mess with the junction as it works and my solder, electric skills are such that I'm not inclined to mess with stuff that works :)

So, my ammeter should be good as is. My new output will go to the terminal. The old output, that I cut by the alternator and that is still hooked to the junction will also go to the terminal bolt to send power to the cab.

My fans, I'm running them to the hot terminal that I'm adding, but the switch must be wired to interrupt the ground, because they were straight on my battery and still needed a switch to work.

I've finished the 2 wires to the terminals, and made the wires for the other stuff, but time is limited, so I haven't got past that yet. They are all fused as you instructed.

Re: Alternator question
 

You're getting there.

Re: Alternator question
 

Worked on it some today. The fan power wires that went to the battery now go across the radiator ready for the terminal (yellow connectors).

The power for the a/c fan that went to the junction by the battery has joined them. Also put in the fusible link.

The alternator is in and wired up. In addition to the ground it had, I sent another 10 gauge to the frame.

Having trouble drilling holes for the terminal, it's tight down there. So that's it for today.

Re: Alternator question
 

Ok, here we go. Finished the wiring today. Did a test start. Everything still needs to be taped up and routed, but I wanted a test run. Here are the numbers.

Good - I hope - Please!

Before starting - 12.47v
Idle no accessories - 14.84v
Idle everything on - 13.04v
1500 rpm everything on 14.88v

So it's charging - not too high I hope?

The ammeter works correctly as well, showing heavy charge right after starting,then settling down just above center. Also moved up when everything turned on, then settled as well.

Here are some pics of the terminal strip. I ran the power from alternator and power to cab to the bottom bolt.
The radiator fans are on the top.
The a/c fan is in the middle.

I can't thank you DJLambert and Vette enough. No way without the help.

P.S. I reread all the posts and see that I asked questions already answered etc. Thank you for your kind patience! Oh, the blue box will cover the thing for extra protection when done.

Dave

Re: Alternator question
 

Very good. What is the function of that blue box thingy?

Re: Alternator question
 

I was sweating the numbers being too high. Thanx.

The box will cover the terminal - keep weather and stuff from touching the posts and shorting something out.

If you look at my picture in post #58,you will see the same box (but painted and cut to fit) covering my fan relays.

Re: Alternator question
 

Pat yourself on the back for a job well done, and just think of all the guys we've helped with this thread.

Re: Alternator question
 

I’m late to this convo but for future reference for guys doing a similar swap-I’ve got a lot of experience swapping late model alternators into all kinds of vintage GM stuff. You have to realize it isnt just about total amps that make the CS alternators superior to SI style ones its mainly about the regulator voltage output speed being MUCH faster to react to changes in voltage drop-and the CS alts shed heat much better. Size wise there is ONE direct fit CS alternator that fits the v-belt setups-simply swap pulleys but retain the CS cooling fan. Application is a 1988 Olds Firenza with a 2.0 FI (122cu) engine.

Re: Alternator question
 

Good info. Is re-clocking easy? Do these have a ground terminal or only ground with the bracket?

Re: Alternator question
 

Its already 12 and 6. No re-clocking needed.

Re: Alternator question
 

You guys are bumming me out. Just finished the SI and everyone telling me that I should have went CS. :(

At any rate, I still consider it a major upgrade, and everything seems to be working great.

As an aside, I've been sick (shingles) so I haven't finished taping everything up. Will upload a pic when all that is done.

Thanks again!

Re: Alternator question
 

The good thing is upgrading to a CS from an SI is far easier than going from externally regulated to SI anyway. The voltage regulator speed and overall heat disippation is far better. With regards to alternators, the newest style you can upgrade to the better!

Re: Alternator question
 

I don't think you should be bummed out. The conversion to 12SI is much clearer than CS. There is not a clear description anywhere of exactly what to do. This thread is as close as I've seen, but the information about an application didn't appear until after you bought the 12SI.

In order to be clear (for me), the instructions for CS conversion need to have:

• The alternator application. This is the required information that you walk into an auto parts store with, in order to get them to hand you the correct alternator across the counter. Without that, our only choice is to buy generic Chinese crud from Amazon or eBay, and we may not use a Delco/Remy. Until vince1 spoke up with "89 Pontiac Safari is a CS130 that has the V pulley" I don't think anybody had previously given an application. gmachinz has now also given another application for what appears to be the same alternator vince1 mentions, except the pully style. It is good to have a list of applications to choose from, like we have had for a while for the 12SI, by looking at the Mad Electrical website.
• Part number and source for a suitable junction. I've decided to use the stock junction like the one on the passenger fender, and I will put it on the driver side fender for the alternator output. You've also found a nice junction.
• Part number and source or application for the alternator connector, and clear information about the resistor for the L terminal, including part number and source or application. I've been researching this and I think perhaps ACDelco PT2145 is the correct one, it is an SI to CS130 adapter with resistor built in. There is no more Radio Shack to walk into and pick up a resistor, and even if you pick one up from somewhere, you still need the connector. So I am kind of liking that ACDelco PT2145 as a choice. With an ACDelco part number, it should be possible to get it from many sources.
• The wiring diagram. I have added to the "Color Wiring Diagram FINISHED" post in this electrical section, I hope I got it right. If anybody points out errors, I will edit it.

Fortunately, it is not a very expensive project to experiment with, perhaps a couple hundred dollars for everything including a fresh Gates belt.

Re: Alternator question
 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...generator,2412

For this application it comes with the pulley.

Re: Alternator question
 

I’ve used that alternator for countless 67-72 GM A-body alternator upgrade kits (Chevelle, Monte carlo, Cutlass) and along with my upgraded and re-routed system wiring, I can measure 14.5V @ output post with car running and 14.4V @ an interior stock fuse panel BAT terminal with car running while having:

AC on high speed
Headlights on
Aftermarket stereo with multiple amps hitting hard
Running the power windows up/down
Interior courtesy lighting on

I’ve proven over and over with those alternators that when properly supported in key areas using upgraded wiring, voltage loss is extremely minimal and amperage use is fairly low which is exactly as it should be. Part of my work was to also dispell the myth that people should always upgrade to the latest fuse panel blah blah blah that AAW and PAINLESS always try to push.

Re: Alternator question
 

Is the Firenza CS alternator a 3 wire or a 4 wire connection? OK , looking thru your links it appears to be 4 wire with me using the S terminal only???? I have no idiot light (L terminal ??) on my 67 K10 -- I have a voltage gauge only. Should I pay $33 for a 4 prong female plug?? To just use 1 terminal?? Does this appear to make it 2 wire not including ground ------ Bat and S terminal? Or do I still have to use the L term also with resistance? Blame dave12 for this. haha dave 12, Hope shingles are easing up --- been there. Got a shot and hope never to get again. Wish they had had chicken pox shots when I was young.

Re: Alternator question
 

The “L” still needs to go to your light circuit but I would still add a 150-200 ohm/1W resistor inline on it. The bigger red wire is still the voltage sensing lead too, then you have the big charge post cable to run.

Re: Alternator question
 

Spot on

Worrying about finding a CS alternator with a V-belt pulley is useless, when it only takes a minute to change the serpentine pulley to the V-belt pulley.

All you need is a glove or rag, a 15/16" socket and an impact gun to zip it off and zip the V-belt pulley on. If yiou don't have an impact then the alternator armature has a socket for an allen driver to hold it while turning the nut with an open end wrench.




Here's the wiper error and the correction.


ERROR:

Attachment 1788859



Wiper correction:

Attachment 1788858

Re: Alternator question
 

I have changed the serpentine pulleys over to the V type and it is easy with the 15/16 socket and impact gun. The shafts though can be a little shorter and when you get the V pulley on the nut goes on barely flush. Also in the wrecking yards they charge extra for a separate V pulley so I figure any way I can get one without paying extra I'll take it. Portable impact guns are expensive but if I had one I'd do the swap right in the junk yard.

Re: Alternator question
 

Thanks Dave 12 for starting and Dmjlambert, VetteVet, Vince1, Gmachinz , enjoying everyones input and gave me the direction I want to do in my 1970 C10 CST alternator upgrade,
im gonna go with ACDelco 3351011 cs130 this already has vpulley mounted
ACDelco PT2145, hopefully resistor correct

now I am assuming this comes with a big enough resistor already in place, if someone knows for sure please chime in

Re: Alternator question
 

When you get your ACDelco PT2145, use an ohm meter to measure how many ohms the resistor is, and please let us know. Many old threads about doing this mention all different resistor values and going to Radio Shack for them, so I wonder. American Auto Wire has an adapter also, and I don't know if it has the sense wire included but it does have a resistor on the L wire. Their resistor is 510 ohms according to a tech guy that wrote me back in an email. They say in a white paper on their website any resistance between 35 ohms (5-Watt resistor) and 500 ohms (0.5 Watt resistor) is fine. I wonder why the big range.

Re: Alternator question
 

I will certainly do once I receive harness and hoping it is within specs

Re: Alternator question
 

I usually go anywhere from 150-300 ohms.

Re: Alternator question
 

I'm glad this thread appears to be helping other people. I thought seriously about making a streamlined how-to for dummies like me, but the I can see that most people are leaning towards the CS conversion, so I won't bother.

Like a dummy, I reinstalled my coolant overflow over the terminal box that I used near the junction. I had wanted a pic or to to show how clean the installation is, and how the box looks, but the screws are hard to get to, and I don't feel like removing the coolant overflow just to take a picture. Suffice it to say that it works great and looks very tidy.
Thanx again to all that helped.

As an aside, shingles rash is almost gone after nearly 4 weeks. Pain remains. I have almost forgotten what it is like not to be in pain :) If you are over 50, do yourself a favor and get the shot. They do it at the pharmacy, you don't even have to get an appointment or go to the doctor. Supposed to be 90% effective.

Re: Alternator question
 

Alright so I got the Part PT2145 GM(88861073) and according to the reading its 511, so I am just assuming this reads 511ohms resistance , I did this on two different testers and got the same result so this would pretty much be correct to what dmjlambert had said