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Re: Project Fargolet
beautiful work, great how to!
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Re: Project Fargolet
Nice job on detail of repairs, and changes...Jim
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Re: Project Fargolet
Thanks guys. I often get stuck trying to figure out the little things, so I’m doing my best to document generic S10 swap details that I have had to sort out. Speaking of which, here’s more!
I got started on that cab by first stripping everything out of it and placing it on blocks to lift it up. The entire Fargo floor from the seat forwards can be removed, so I am able to step inside the cab and work on things while comfortably standing on my shop floor (instead of crouching inside the cab with screaming knees). https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...80b6ae2d_c.jpg The toeboard was badly dented and had all kinds of cutouts that are not needed, so I used it as a template to cut out a new one. I may fab up some stiffening beads to weld to the underside, but I used 13 gauge steel and once bolted down this thing has almost zero flex (I also painted it black while it was easy to do, so pic quality is not great): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3f45f0ae_c.jpg The firewall also had a ton of cutouts and holes of all shapes and sizes that needed to be closed up. I figured “a couple of hours should do this”, until I counted up all the openings that needed to be shut (60 of ‘em!). https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e32f284e_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f4f8acb7_c.jpg Full welds were added to previously tacked together parts:: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e68993e4_c.jpg After doing the final welds on the column support and brake assemblies, I tossed them both back into the cab to figure out the firewall passthrough. The U-joint at the base of the column ends up where I knew it would (right in the firewall) so I needed a passthrough and a sealing system. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3b91ddc9_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c0abe8ca_c.jpg As for the passthrough, I grabbed some steel and fabbed a box that would extend the firewall forward enough to enclose the u-joint. Unfortunately this spot is where the firewall bends down under the floor so it took a lot of fooling around to be able to match all the little bends and jogs that go on down there (there are overlapping panels as well, so this tiny little box was a bit of a nightmare to fab up!). I was going to weld the little box in place, but since I am doing this with the cab off the frame I figured it would be best to bolt it on in case I discover a clearance problem when I reassemble the truck. Here’s where I ended up (it’s temporarily fastened with just a couple of bolts) https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...585bb5c7_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7038eca3_c.jpg To handle the seal on the engine side of the firewall, I just used the original ‘96 S10 rubber seal and the original bearing as it fits a ¾ DD shaft. Here are those parts on my new DD shaft, and then temporarily installed: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...625c1975_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d1d6758b_c.jpg For the inside cab seal, I went to my parts truck (a 2000 or so Blazer) and found that it had a nice rubber flex cone to seal the column. To use this cone I had to remove the 1996 S10 lower column seal and insert the 2000 Blazer lower column seal. They both fit, but there is a clocking difference that required me to use the Blazer lower column seal to properly align the rubber boot: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...83a8c457_c.jpg I may fab up a big ring that will bolt the edges of the boot firmly down, but I have some more mods to do in that area that require pulling out the brake assembly first, so it will have to wait. I was a little tired of crouching around and working on that passthrough so I switched to something quick & easy (or so I thought). Sometimes it’s the little things that slow me right down. I found a couple of snapped screws on the glovebox door where the swingarm attaches and I figured “this should be quick”. Famous last words. I have no idea why this happens, but every so often I come across snapped off screws that resist all attempts to drill them out. I also had just run out of acetylene, so no help there. I went through 7 or 8 new drill bits, and both screws just wore the bits out. Here is one of the little buggers (it's the one on the left), and you can see the snapped off portion down inside. The construction of the glovebox door is strange, as the outer screw holes have an air gap between the glovebox doorskin and whatever the screws thread into: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e44295f5_c.jpg I got around the problem by grabbing a carbide bit with a rounded end and I hogged out a hole that was wide enough and deep enough to lay a nut in This shot is actually the right side of that glovebox door but it’s the same process): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...685577be_c.jpg The nut was then welded in place and the welds cleaned up a bit. Not the prettiest, but it's for the inside of a glovebox. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5d3b4a96_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9f17d587_c.jpg And after all that I was able to reattach that glovebox door with new screws on both ends: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...09dd453c_c.jpg I repaired a couple of rusty cracks that I found on the floor near the kick panels, and then I welded in a patch to close up the big oval hole where the original gas filler tube passes through the cab floor on its way to the original gas tank (boring stuff so no pics taken). More to come! |
Re: Project Fargolet
Looking good. Nice fab work!
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Re: Project Fargolet
wow perfect planning and execution, great visualization!
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Re: Project Fargolet
Nice
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Re: Project Fargolet
Thanks for the kind words!
The cab work continues……… I made some progress with the ventilation system, but am waiting on parts now. I also temporarily installed the parking brake pedal and release bracket, but I need the cab back on the frame before I finalize things, so no pics right now. I did however make some good progress on wipers and windshield as follows: When I stripped down the Fargo I discovered that it uses a separate vacuum wiper motor for driver and passenger sides. I also discovered that mine were completely seized. A little while ago I was doing some random internet surfing when I came across an ancient Ford service bulletin about Trico Vacuum wipers. It recommended using brake fluid, especially on old units that have sat for years. I managed to get a few capfulls of fluid into each motor, and then let them sit in different positions to let the fluid get everywhere. Much to my surprise, both motors freed up. I worked them back and forth for a few minutes and then hooked up a piece of vacuum hose to each one and provided some vacuum (by mouth) and sure enough they sprang to life! My donour S10 had a vacuum reservoir, so for now I think I will give it a whirl to see how these things do. I can always buy some electric motors and fab up a system if the vacuum units are awful (quite likely!), but these things will bolt right back in (and they are free) so for now I will see if they do the trick. My previous truck (‘56 Chevy 3200) had vacuum wipers which were not great, but the Fargo has a separate vacuum motor for each window, and the wiper blades are quite small, so I have my fingers crossed that they will work! https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...40c065ce_c.jpg Next came the windshield, and as you can see, it's just a top half that slides together with a bottom half, sandwiching the glass in between. No problem, its just a matter of removing 5 screws and pulling the 2 halves apart. “How long could that take?” I asked myself. The correct answer is 6 hours. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2e498252_c.jpg To get it to the point in the picture above, I made use of the following: Knives & scrapers Gasolene Clamps A big wooden wedge Hammer Oxy-acetylene torch Screwdrivers Dremel Profanity Centrepunch Drill & various bits 10-32 tap Air grinder & wire wheel I truly did not want to wreck this thing so I had to be careful, but everything was so seized together that in the end some serious persuasion was required (as is evidenced by the implements of destruction listed above). These windshield frames are now made new in the States, but would be about $1700 by time I got my hands on it up here. By being very careful with when & how I heated and whalloped the pieces, I got it apart without damage and repaired the snapped screws. Now its just a matter of getting some flat glass cut and ordering the seal (the tape in the pics is holding all that cracked glass together long enough for it to be used as a template). More to follow! |
Re: Project Fargolet
very cool build :D
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Re: Project Fargolet
great perseverance! those multi piece windshields are a pain in the behind. the 41-46 chevy windshields come apart like that only side to side, on one truck I bought a new windshield for 7 or 8 hundred, on the next I thought I would save some money and rebuilt the original, only took a month and 5 hundred. :lol:
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next time double the profanity or at least increase the volume if you cant increase the frequency. :lol::lol: |
Re: Project Fargolet
This looks like Medusa in the morning.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0b2991fd_c.jpg You know you're doing a in-depth build when you say something along the lines of "I'm onto the easy part" and then post a picture like that, haha. I'm very intrigued with this build. One of my favorite aspects about it is that you are using what you have. That will be the quickest way to get it on the road and enjoy it. From there, and how you feel while you're driving it, you can make changes if you want. If you decide that you want the interior to be more stock like, or more custom, you can head that direction. Meanwhile, you're running and driving with parts that are already paid for. Well done, I'm having fun watching. |
Re: Project Fargolet
Thanks guys, and LT7A you have hit the nail on the head. I didn’t want another project that goes on for years before it hits the road (like my last build-7 years), so I am making use of anything that I have that works and is safe. It's also a major joy just leaving it old and rusty looking, as nothing is worse than trying to make changes while not scratching paint or denting things. As for my comment about being “onto the easy stuff”, I may have spoken too soon. Case in point, the mounting of the radiator, electric fan and tranny cooler:
Here’s what I ended up trying to finangle together. The front sheet metal all bolts together as one unit, and then the entire assembly can be bolted to the rad cradle. These trucks have a sharply tapered front end, so space is at a premium, and the rad assembly all sits in that narrow grill. To make matters worse, this particular truck has seen some hard use on the farm, and sliding that sheet metal onto the cradle is a 2 man job that requires compressing the cradle while you fit the sheet metal. I needed to come up with something that bolts onto the cradle, rather than welds on, so here’s what I did: This is the narrow front end sheet metal clip that everything has to fit into: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4455f8b8_c.jpg And this is the cradle being modified. The bottom of the rad will simply sit in these 2 wide hooks, with rubber pads to protect it from shocks. The rad is offset slightly to the passenger side to buy some much needed room (rad outlet and serpentine belt tensioner conflict): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...04fbe340_c.jpg The top of the rad will be held in place by a plate with a grooved channel. The design of this is not mine, I got the idea from Tempest67’s “Dale” build (Thanks Tempest67, that idea was clever!). The aluminum strip on the top of the rad is encased in a piece of rubber tube with a slit cut into it, and that rubber tube is then encased by a U-channel. Here is the rad with the slit tube in place: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2cb5aab4_c.jpg And here is the grooved plate. The 2 little hooks sticking out front will be for the fan bracket: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...dd663cc3_c.jpg The top plate has slightly oblonged holes give minor back & forth adjustment. Up & down adjustment of the rad can be done (if needed) by varying the thickness of the rubber pads or the slit tube, or adding other spacers. Of course that top plate has to bolt onto something, so here’s what I came up with: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...34a0ee15_c.jpg This assembly bolts to the remains of the factory cradle, and looks simple, but it took some serious fiddly work. The bolts that attach this new piece to the factory cradle posts are nestled into the corner and they JUST fit ( a few thousandths clearance between the points of the bolt head and the angle iron as you turn them in). The big notches in the angle iron allow enough room to put a ⅝ socket onto the bolts that hold the front sheet metal to the factory cradle posts. The upper corners of the new assembly hit the sheet metal during a fitment check, so they had to be sliced at an angle and strengthened/rewelded. The height of the new assembly was based on the “sweet spot” I found that lets me juggle installation and clearance issues. The rad cap sits partially under the sheet metal, and can be accessed for maintenance, and the lower rad outlet will be able to clear the serpentine belt tensioner pulley. It was a 3D jigsaw puzzle! Here is the top plate that secures the rad, bolted to the new cradle extension: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...74f5a465_c.jpg Wherever possible, I welded in studs so that I can instal/remove parts using just a socket or wrench (rather than using nuts and bolts which require you to somehow weasel 2 hands into an already tight space). Here is the fan (Hayden 16 inch reversible model 3700), bolted onto the studs of the fan support: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1c210992_c.jpg And here is the flipside, where the tranny cooler (Hayden model 678) is installed on the studs. It looks kinda funny mounted up high like that, but my fan is also mounted tight to the top so the tranny cooler is right in the path of the air drawn by the fan. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2a4849f5_c.jpg Sometimes you may notice a small “X” lightly scored into metal pieces I have fabbed. I do this where its easy to accidentally mix up where a part goes. I use a small cutoff wheel to mark the passenger side piece with an “X” so that I don’t accidentally install it on the driver side. I’d have liked to have posted a pic of the whole mess in place with the front end sheet metal installed, but I have to wait till I have a helper to do this. My fingers are crossed that there are no hidden clearance issues lurking in wait. Confidence level is about 80 percent………After a test fit, I'll take it all apart and do full welds. More to come! |
Re: Project Fargolet
thrilling stuff! outstanding fab!
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Re: Project Fargolet
Very cleaver, nice job...Jim
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Re: Project Fargolet
Nice work on the design.
Glad you were able to use something from my build, and it looks like you improved on it too. Can't wait to see the front end of this Fargo in place. Great work |
Re: Project Fargolet
I recently took a good look at where I am on the build, and realized that I am not far off from reassembling the body. A test fire of the engine would be good, as I can get at problem areas easily as I simply have a drivetrain sitting on a frame. It will never get easier than it is right now. As well, that wiring harness needs to be tested, and again debugging it is way easier now. This is also a very good time to thin that harness out a bit, which will make sticking under the dash a lot easier. So I got to work, and here is where she sits:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c7f9942a_c.jpg This is the original harness (which is in excellent shape) layed out and attached to all the buttons and switches that control it. My plan is to first test to ensure all electrical devices still work properly, and then to test run the engine to ensure that everything is good and no codes are being thrown. I’ll repair any problems, and when it’s all in order I will look at thinning the harness out. There are some wires that just aren’t needed (like trailer harness, rear parking lights, under dash lights, etc), and some that I don’t want (radio, speakers, etc), and there are entire systems I will be deleting (if possible) such as the ABS brakes, the airbag system, etc. If I can pull this off, this harness should be way smaller. I will be posting questions in the S10 Swap How To thread to ensure that I don’t delete any items or wires that affect the PCM as this is my only big worry when it comes to thinning that harness out. More to follow! |
Re: Project Fargolet
The electrical testing went extremely well. Everything functioned and the motor fired right up and no codes were thrown. I’m waiting for my son Brian to come up and give me a hand with thinning out that wiring harness, so in the meantime I have been fooling around with some little things. The Fargo came with this Mopar heater box. I’m not sure if it’s original, but the heater box is super cool so I decided to see if it could be worth saving.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...cafb3c8c_c.jpg There’s really not a lot to these old heat/vent systems: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c26d9767_c.jpg During disassembly I found a half dozen dark little discs inside the box, and after setting them in a mix of vinegar and salt I was rewarded with this: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ba06b5c9_c.jpg They turned out to be in wonderful condition and were all from 1933 to 1946. A quick internet check revealed that the 6 coins are now worth $1.20, and that’s exactly $1.20 more than I have made selling leftover S10 parts! I may try to incorporate them into something inside the cab. After some testing it appears that the core is leak free, but that motor was 100% seized up solid. I ran into a bit of luck where the motor was concerned. I had been putting off cleaning up my parts storage area, which is mostly leftover parts from our ‘56 Chevy wagon build. I finally got to it, and lo and behold what do I find? A trifive blower motor in excellent condition. It had clearly been indoors for a long time (no rust at all). I hooked it up to a battery and it sprang to life. Because of how long it had sat, I did an old trick for blower motors. By drilling a tiny hole in the bottom, you can get oil into the bottom bushing: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c831e8bf_c.jpg Sure enough, a bit of oil and the motor sped up and ran like a top. Fixing the rest of the heater box was straight forward. The original fan blade was affixed to the motor shaft collar by some sort of crimped on flange that had to be ground off during disassembly so I ordered a flange collar off of Amazon. Three weeks and 8 dollars later the collar arrived. I purposely ordered a collar with a bore size under 5/16 inch as I’d rather drill it out to proper size, than discover the bore was a bit too big for the 5/16 blower shaft and end up with a wobbly mess. Here’s the old motor with the chewed up press-on fitting (upper left), the “new” motor and the fan blade with the flange collar. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...165b1149_c.jpg The smooth sailing came to an end during reassembly when I realized the new motor was just a bit longer than the old one, and wouldn’t quite fit inside the box. To further slow me down I discovered that access to the fan blade is only from one side during reassembly so I couldn’t just use nuts and bolts to fasten it to the flange collar. The longer motor required some slicing and welding of the top of the box: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1257ee36_c.jpg And the lack of access to the underside of the fan was resolved by making a little flange to screw the fan bolts into without the need for underside access. I did this instead of just tapping the flange collar, as it was not very thick and I wasn’t sure how good the metal was: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...522927e9_c.jpg Here’s the final product: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e8e87d15_c.jpg I did some testing and discovered that it’s fairly quiet, however those old motors don’t seem to push air like the new ones. I may just wire it up as a 1 speed fan and only use full speed on the fairly rare occasions that I need a heater or defroster. More to follow! |
Re: Project Fargolet
nice work, I have a mopar heater I cant bear to throw away. make sure to pressure test the core, some older heaters cant take a modern cooling system pressure.
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Re: Project Fargolet
My son Brian came over a while back and we spent a day thinning out that huge S10 wiring harness. We got pretty much all of the stuff out of it that we planned, except for the ABS brakes. I did however test it a few days later by simply unplugging the unit completely and that seemed to have no impact at all on the PCM, so for now I have removed the ABS module (which is enormous) and I will get rid of those wires in the future after some test driving. Here’s a pile of stuff we eliminated from the harness:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b623d2d5_c.jpg I was hoping to remove a lot more, but every little bit helps when cramming stuff under a dash. I will do a test routing soon, and when I am happy with the harness routing I will clean things up and add a protective layer to the various bundles of wire. Before reinstalling the cab, I finished off a couple of things that would be far easier to do while access was good. The first item was the windshield. I fabbed up a hand crank system to open and shut the windshield, but I still need to find a decent handle and then install the works (pics to follow once I have it all buttoned up). Next came the floor. The entire central floor section was missing when I bought the truck and I have no idea what they looked like (or even what they were made of), so I just took a guess and fabbed up a new one, then hit it with a coat of black paint and tossed it in: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...658212ea_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0751e9ae_c.jpg The new header panels that I made earlier this year were welded in place: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f5c459de_b.jpg I took advantage of the easy access to the engine in order to install a temperature controller for the electric fan. Skymangs had suggested the type that screws into the water jacket in the cylinder head, rather than the types that you stick into the fins of the rad, or down into a rad hose. The GM 4.3 has an unused threaded hole in the passenger side cylinder head, so that’s what I used. It's sealed from the factory with a 5/16 female square pipe plug, which is quite clever. If they had used a ¼, ⅜ ths or ½ inch plug then everybody in the world with a ratchet would be able to take that plug out! Luckily I had an old ½ inch square plug wrench, and with the help of a grinder I whittled the end down to 5/16ths. Here’s a pic of the new sender, the old plug, and the new tool: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fe285b75_b.jpg The plug itself is hidden by the oil pan dipstick, so the dipstick had to be shifted away and a bit of heat was required to break the old plug free. The new sender needs to be able to accept a wire connection, so the dipstick had to be modified to move it over a bit. The quickest way to do this was to slice the bracket that holds the dipstick in place, and add a bit of metal to move the dipstick out of the way of the sender. A few minutes later it was done. Here’s a “before & after”: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a06e2777_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c3d28be8_c.jpg I drilled and tapped holes in the rad cradle to securely route the rubber transmission lines, and did the same for the electric rad fan wires (boring stuff so no pics taken). My rad cradle sits on some thick tube steel that’s welded to the frame, and I have since read a few posts that suggested some sort of cushion in order to minimize the transmission of vibrations into the cab, so I made and installed a pair of rubber spacers: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b2e6e24b_c.jpg Hopefully these will help with noise and vibration (while the cab sits on rubber cushions, the front end sheet metal bolts to the cab). There are a number of things on my “to do” list that are far easier to visualize with the body panels installed, rather than taking tricky measurements. My brother was available to help, so we got the main body panels in place. I then spent some time aligning panels and adjusting heights to get things straight and square. My brother and I had used some wooden supports to set the running boards to height, and I could now install the running board mounts. Simple design, nothing fancy, but nice & thick! They are temporarily bolted in while I verify their final height and how I am going to deal with the wooden spacers that sit between the boards and the mounts. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...da438e13_b.jpg The running boards are currently about ¾ inch above their mounting brackets, and these trucks originally came with wooden spacers that filled this gap. I’m not worried about weight, and I want strong running boards, so I will cut some ¾ inch wood planks that run the length of the boards. This will fill the ¾ gap, and provide support everywhere when people get in & out of the truck. Once my running boards were in place, I noticed some very slight interference with the rear parking brake cable mount and I also saw that one of the parking brake cables would be rubbing on a body mount. To address this I simply extended the rear cable support downwards about an inch by welding on a piece of metal and drilling 2 holes: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3b6e9838_b.jpg I then tried to figure out how & where to mount the pedal assembly. I found this to be a bit of a juggling act to do alone, and some of it hinged on exactly where I would mount the front cable bracket support on the frame. Remember that EVERYTHING has been moved around. The new cab is back 8 ½ inches and is raised up, the rear cable mount has been lowered and the rear axle has been slid forward 1 ½ inches. After a few frustrating tries, I opted to do this: First I affixed a stud to a small plate, which I then tacked to the legs of the front cab mount: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4ebe1ab8_b.jpg Then I made a sliding bracket to snap the front parking brake cable into: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...cd53e17b_b.jpg Then the bracket was installed on the frame. It’s adjustable, and it allowed me to find that exact spot where that front cable mount should sit in order to allow the parking brakes to work properly. It’s temporary, and once everything is set in place for the final time I will weld a permanent cable bracket in place: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...40b4c826_b.jpg This now gave me the chance to play with different orientations of the S10 pedal assembly. To get this right I first fabbed up a kick panel which (for now) is bolted in place. Depending on how I finish the interior, I may later remove the bolts and weld it in: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...87a96e9f_b.jpg After playing around with different heights and angles, I eventually came up with an orientation for the S10 parking brake pedal assembly that would work for me. I used a fairly sturdy gauge of metal for the kick panel, so installing the parking brake assembly was just a matter of marking 3 holes and then welding nuts into the kick panel. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d083c358_b.jpg I still have to come up with a decent floor pass-thru for the parking brake cable. The S10 grommet is meant to come straight up from a horizontal floor, but in my application the floor is on a sharp angle and the S10 grommet will be a very poor fit. More to follow! |
Re: Project Fargolet
Nice fab work and inovation, should on the road soon.....
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Re: Project Fargolet
Nice work! I like the ingenuity and problem solving.
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Re: Project Fargolet
great fab, problem solving is my favorite thing to watch!
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Re: Project Fargolet
Thanks guys! Today I fooled around with the wiring harness inside the cab. I’m lucky as the Fargo dash is far narrower than the S10, so I have plenty of wire length to work with (actually I have too much, but that’s far better than being an inch short). The biggest problem I often have is trying to visualize how stuff will fit. I used to take a million precise measurements and plan things out to fit perfectly, only to be disappointed when I tried putting it all together. I’ve since switched to simpler methods.
It’s Arts & Crafts time!: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e2c91ff1_c.jpg To figure out where best to put the driver side harness pass-through, I simply traced the outline onto some craft board, allowing me to play with various orientations to ensure that it fit well without interference on both sides of the firewall. MUCH easier than trying to take measurements (especially up under the dash): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d3b6f662_c.jpg That cardboard box is just a replica of the battery (and much easier to lift!). I was at a loss as to where to put the battery, as under hood space is very limited and the usual spot on the passenger firewall will be taken up by the ECU. My first thought was to centre it high up like this: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6af7a8ab_c.jpg I wasn’t too pleased with this though. In addition to being tremendously ugly, it's hard to reach for any sort of routine maintenance, and putting it in place would require a straight arm lift that my shoulders are no longer up to. I tried a few other spots (with that delightfully light weight cardboard battery) and nothing else worked. The Fargo battery was originally under the floor beneath the bench seat (which just lifted up) but my S10 bench will be firmly bolted down and there’s no way I’m ripping out a seat every time I need to deal with the battery. There was however a nice spot behind the cab, under the bed: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a214b5f3_c.jpg This spot seems to solve all of my problems. I plan on using checker plate steel for the bed floor, so I will have to build a box to support the battery and some sort of hinged cover to access it through the bed floor. I will also need to put in a heat shield between the battery and the muffler. Assuming nobody points out a serious error in my thinking, I believe I will be going this route. More to follow! |
Re: Project Fargolet
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looking good.
I am not familiar with the inner fender of a Fargo, but is there room to carve out a battery to fit there? like I did with my Chev? it might not be pretty under the hood, but it is functional |
Re: Project Fargolet
Under bed Battery ... did you leave room for the driveshaft to travel up ?
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Re: Project Fargolet
yes, for sure check the driveshaft clearance at full jounce of the suspension.
I have used a length of abs plumbing pipe or a piece of 1x4 board on edge to simulate the o/d of the driveshaft as a quick reference to connect the dots between the trans and the diff. depending on the o/d of the pinion and the trans output housing a large piece of abs could slip over those parts. a piece of fence board can be cut to capture both ends and be held in place with tape for all the time it takes. not so much work as finding and bolting on the d/shaft. haven't seen a good pic of the rad area but maybe, for the battery, out in front of the rad, down low so as not to restrict air flow? move muffler forward/back to allow a little more room in that area, with a heat shield or 2? moving back further would require larger supply cables but. really, lots of big trucks and heavy equipment have their batteries located quite a distance from the engine bay/alt/starter. their load draw would be considerably more. battery at the rear would mean lots more space, probably, and easier access. maybe a battery tray on a leverage system, like those old fashioned lamps have, could work to take the load off the shoulders in a service environment. if you make the tray the right size a lid from something else, like big rig, farm tractor, small equipment etc, could work to cover it up. or possibly a marine battery box (with a vent) or if you have the room a sliding tray like an rv would have. I assume the truck box will have a raised floor so there could be room under that behind the axle (more chance of the battery getting shook around back there though)? depending on the look you are going for possibly an old cooler or tool box in the bed could be used to hide the battery, provide some security (lockable) and also look cool. here is a few links. some have pics/ideas from this site. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=215890 https://www.amazon.com/EZ-GLIDE-BT07...DQ9VGV3MRQ0NNS https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...BoCtpMQAvD_BwE https://www.boatownersworld.ca/DUAL-...rs_p_2959.html |
Re: Project Fargolet
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Re: Project Fargolet
If there is room behind the seat, you could use an AGM battery such as an optima. I believe they are supposed to be safe when placed in the passenger compartment. More expensive than lead acid however.
If I'm incorrect about this I welcome being corrected as this is the route I'm planning for my ADtruck. |
Re: Project Fargolet
just curious on your rad install. did you incorporate some foam weather-stripping on the brackets that fit tight against the core? I figured you would after the fit/paint process is completed.
looks like you have a well equipped shop to work in. nice and bright as well. nice. |
Re: Project Fargolet
Wow! First off, a big thanks to all the members who have given input on this build thread, as well as in the S10 swap thread. It's great to have extra eyes (and brains) assisting me. I have continued playing around with different battery locations, and can honestly admit it has been kinda fun. Here’s where I’m at:
Tempest67: I tried that spot where the fender, inner fender and firewall meet, but the Fargo cab is so sharply tapered that there is just not enough room there (I had planned on doing exactly what you did with the battery. It looks great and provides easy access there on the AD trucks). My heater hoses are also in that area, and the old Mopar heater I have is actually affixed to the firewall by threaded tubes that come out those 2 heater hose holes. I posted about this in the S10 swap thread, and I received a couple of great photos from MiraclePieCo and some good info about relocation from Joedoh. G&R’s57GMC: I’m glad you mentioned possible driveshaft interference. I thought I had plenty of clearance but after reading your comment I went back and double checked. Guess who forgot that an S10 drive shaft has a 4 inch diameter? After some more careful measurements, I determined that there is room, but not much. The battery will clear the shaft when the rear axle first contacts the bump stop, but only by about an inch. The position I showed in the photo may not be the best. While it will just clear the axle, it’s not by much and it limits me to that particular size of battery. If I move it further back (behind the axle) I have all the room in the world to play with. The advantages of this spot are an easy to build battery box, and bags of space. The disadvantages are expensive cables and the need to build an access hatch. Here’s the better spot: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5e7ed177_c.jpg Dsraven: Thanks for those ideas and links. There are some great pics there, and I will use them to inspire me to cobble something up (see below!). As for your question about my fan mounting brackets, the pics don't show it well, but there is actually a gap between those brackets and the rad fins. The brackets are made from fairly sturdy material, but only a test will reveal whether or not they flex and allow contact with the fins. Once that big electric fan kicks in, so will Newton’s third law of motion, and the brackets will want to move towards the rad. If they do, a layer of foam or rubber will come. And thanks for the comments about the shop. It’s a treat to work in a decent sized shop for a change. My last 3 builds were done in my attached garage in suburbia, and that was challenging. Edgeleycanuck: There is insufficient room behind the seat for a battery. Also, I am trying to use everything possible from the S10 and buy only what I can’t scrounge or fab myself, so the Optimas are a no-go for me. I can see why people like them though, as they can be mounted sideways, upside down, etc. This opens up a world of spots to stick them into! Speaking of places to stick a battery, when I was looking at the spot suggested by Tempest67, I looked down and realized that there is an enormous, empty space at the trailing end of those giant front fenders. I grabbed my cardboard “battery”, and started to play around: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5b15a45d_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...de0e8f2b_c.jpg I realized that even a giant battery would easily fit, and could face any direction I wanted, so I grabbed a fender and tossed it on (these trucks are so simple to assemble!): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e2484e09_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0602b8b9_c.jpg This location is interesting. Access is good. I could easily reach in to get a wrench where those side terminal bolts would be, and I would be able to use the stock battery cables (they reach!). I would just need a mounting plate (super easy as the frame is right there), as well as a shield to protect the battery from gravel and water (mostly from gravel, as this thing won’t see water unless I get caught in an unexpected rainstorm). Now I’m scratching my head, wondering “in the fender or under the bed?” As always, feel free to point out stuff that I’ve overlooked! |
Re: Project Fargolet
perfect spot for your battery, water won't hurt your battery, but gravel most definatly will....keep up the good work
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Re: Project Fargolet
That looks like a great spot for the battery.
On another topic, your drive shaft. When I took my S10 apart I had never seen such a big driveshaft on such a small vehicle, and made from some kind of carbon fibre?? When it was time to join my trans. with the rear, I measured the distance I needed (I think it was 57 inches) went to kijiji/craigslist, and found the exact length driveshaft for $60. The seller told me it came from a 1969 Buick Skylark. I simply cleaned it up, added new u joints and I was good to go, and it was narrower so gave me a little more space between the gas tank and the muffler. (sorry I don't have pics) This was one of those rare occasions when I actually spent less money than I was expecting, and to top it all off, some guy purchased my S10 driveshaft for $80. Keep up the good work, and thanks for the updates. |
Re: Project Fargolet
I struggled with battery placement as well. When you get old and you can't bend over, or don't want to lay on a concrete floors anymore, you put the battery in an old coke cooler.
https://i.imgur.com/0IYuOwL.jpg |
Re: Project Fargolet
Your doing a good job mate keep it going.....
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Re: Project Fargolet
i vote battery under the bed, that's my plan. can always jump-start or charge from the alternator lead.
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Re: Project Fargolet
You could put a boost connection under the hood if worried about access for that.
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Re: Project Fargolet
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Re: Project Fargolet
personally I wouldn't jump start from the alt terminal. wire gauge isn't sufficient for the draw in my opinion. thats me though.
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Re: Project Fargolet
Paintman: I did consider your suggestion as well. I have access to tons of old agricultural equipment, including sheet metal with the exact same patina as the truck, so I could have made a box that would have looked like it came with the truck. I am keeping that idea in the back of my head for when I deal with the gas tank filler neck.
Tempest67: I thought that big drive shaft was aluminum. Can those things be shortened? After playing around a little more, I opted to try the under-fender spot for the battery. My build recipe calls for using everything possible from the S10 and avoiding buying stuff unless absolutely necessary. With the battery issue decided, it was time to get to work on it. Before I could do that, I had to sort out the inner fenders as the battery would sit near one of them. I thought they were gonna give me problems, but it turns out I just needed to remove the forward lower corner from both. They are not perfect, as they were originally meant for that flat frame of the Fargo, so the lower edges don’t offer as much protection as I’d like. I may add some bolt-on extensions to improve that, and I will add some sort of rubber skirting in the area of the upper control arms. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6122b4e7_c.jpg Once the inners were in place, I could see that there was still bags of room around my new battery spot, so I fabbed up a mount. I oversized the mount and moved it slightly forward to allow for a wider range of battery sizes (I just use wrecking yard batteries). The wiring gods smiled on me here! By snipping just one factory zip tie, the positive lead had just the right length to reach the battery perfectly. The negative lead (which is grounded to the front of the block) was too short, but I found that there was an identical threaded hole at the rear of the block right where the battery sits. After running a tap through it to clear out the crud, the negative cable was installed without having to alter the length at all. There’s still a couple of wires I have to extend, but I’ll do that when I lay out the final routing of wires. Here’s the fabbed up parts (tray, hold downs and protective shield): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2c2158cc_c.jpg And here it sits in place. I can easily reach in to attach booster cables if I ever need to, and the battery can be removed with just a 3/8ths wrench. The tray can also be unbolted. The negative lead is not hooked up as I have wires everywhere and didn’t want a fireworks display: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...40d95b3f_c.jpg I also took the time to fab a quick bracket to mount the ECU on the firewall. I think this spot gives me some decent options for running those huge bundles of wire that feed it: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5e3e68f3_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b09fc561_c.jpg More to follow! |
Re: Project Fargolet
I spent a day doing little stuff that’s ”under the hood” while access was easy. I cleaned the plugs, disassembled and cleaned the front brakes, and installed new front brake hoses. I then took a close look at the steering shaft routing in order to deal with 3 minor issues that I knew I’d have. Here’s the future path of the steering shaft (the dowel in the pic).
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3795bdef_c.jpg The heat shield around the foremost plug had to be cut down a bit, and the straight boot plug wire was swapped with an angled boot wire from my parts truck. The power steering low pressure line was also in the way, and needed to be bent. It had some rust on it, and I was worried about it cracking or kinking. Joedoh had suggested inserting some kind of rod inside the tube before bending it, in order to prevent kinking. I played around with this a bit and discovered something that works perfectly: a spark plug wire. By cutting off the boot of an old plug wire, I could feed the wire down the low pressure tube as far as I wanted, as these wires are extremely flexible and easily snake through the steel tube. I then was able to put a gentle series of small bends into the tube, which retained it’s round shape perfectly. You can still see the plug wire inside the tube prior to its removal: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...54bd5001_c.jpg With that out of the way I decided to finish off the exhaust system which I had been avoiding as it would involve lying on the concrete. I had to weld in a hanger at the front of the catalytic converter, add some gaskets and tighten a few things up. I had also discovered an interference problem when I mounted the rear passenger fender. The S10 tailpipe ended up inside the fender: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1c2b0fcd_c.jpg Thank god for that parts truck I have outside. I went out and cut off the end of the exhaust system from the Blazer, and sure enough there was a section that had a nice bend and the exact same diameter that I needed (the right half of the section in the pic): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a16c5f5e_c.jpg After cutting off that hanger and making a couple of quick cuts, followed by some welding, I had a tailpipe that was no longer inside the fender: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2f073e96_c.jpg More to follow! |
Re: Project Fargolet
I’ve been plugging away at the “to do” list on the truck, it's been mostly little stuff (nothing particularly interesting), but there’s a couple of S10 swap specifics I’ll share here. First is the e-brake cable pass-thru. The S10 rubber pass-thru is designed for a horizontal floor, and not a particularly thick one. The S10 grommet also appears to be placed on the cable prior to forming the ends, as it appears to be non removable/replaceable. My truck floor is angled where the pass-thru goes, and happens to be at a spot where multiple panels overlap, so its far too thick for the S10 grommet. My S10 also had what appeared to be a nearly new cable assembly so I wanted to keep it. I tried to modify an angled grommet to work, but it was frustrating and would not have been great so in the end I just fabbed up an angled mount that allowed the use of the S10 grommet. It snaps right into place and seals nicely:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3107c470_c.jpg Next was the S10 shifter cable pass-thru. This thing does a nice job of sealing off the cable, but it’s designed to come through the floor just in front of the bench seat. Not great for these old trucks due to the sudden sharp angle where the floor rises to meet the firewall. The cable however is free to slide in the pass-thru, so the pass-thru can just be slid to wherever it would work best. The floor of the S10 has a nicely molded section of sheet metal that grips the pass-thru securely, so it can be cut out and added to the floor of the project truck. S10 swap tip: Buy a good one!!!! All kidding aside, if anyone plans on one of these swaps it’s well worth the money to find a good, rust free, well maintained S10 (assuming of course that you are not merely after the frame). The number of reusable parts is unreal if you have a good donour. When I needed the pass-thru for the shifter cable I simply cut it out of the S10 and welded it in. Here’s the underside of that pass-thru: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...da0299b8_c.jpg Mine was completely rust free, just needed to cut & weld. I’m so glad I waited till I found a solid donour S10. Here it is welded into one of my floor panels (no attempts to make it pretty, it can’t be seen unless you either lift the carpet or lie under the truck). https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...488b0847_c.jpg And here it sits, just waiting to be hooked up to the column when I do my final assembly (there’s no interference with the gas pedal, it’s just the way the pic came out): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...33da0ce4_c.jpg Next was horns. Once again, sheer dumb luck helped me out. By simply drilling and tapping a hole in each rad support bracket I was able to bolt on the S10 horns using the brackets they came with. The brackets are mirror images of each other and I now have a matching set of horns that sit perfectly inside the curved front grillwork: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...32651d57_c.jpg I then took a look at the front bumper, which was a mess. This truck had a hard life, and the front bumper was badly twisted, and bent in sharply on the driver’s side. It also had the nice big buckles in the edges that you get whenever you bend metal out of shape. The metal in these old bumpers is thick (3/16th’s of an inch), so I knew I was in for a chore. One thing I have learned since moving out to the countryside: If you are not sure how to do a heavy chore, ask a farmer! After conferring with my farmer neighbour I managed to save the bumper. It was actually really easy to do. To remove the twist, the bumper was chained down to my heavy steel work table, and a 2nd chain was used to attach a big steel prybar: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9fc02300_c.jpg Removing the twist with a 6 foot prybar was delightfully easy. All it took was a couple of mild lifts on that huge bar. Next was the bent driver side. This involved a couple of rounds of using both a come-along and a BFH. The bumper was again strapped to that table, and the come-along was used to remove the bend, along with the BFH to flatten out the buckles along the edges: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1ae72320_c.jpg Here it is now: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0ac53bee_c.jpg I completely forgot to take a “before” pic, which is a shame as this thing was a mess. It ain’t perfect, but it will look just right on this beat up truck. While on the topic of messes, I also had to deal with the front fender braces, which had also been nicely bashed up. I was expecting to fab up a completely new pair, then realized that I could just do some untwisting and modification of the lower end (which no longer had a place to bolt to as a result of the S10 frame swap). All I had to do was chop off the lower section and fab a replacement piece. Here’s one of the original braces: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ed6d284c_c.jpg And here’s the new modified brace: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6aa51602_c.jpg And here it is in place, bolted to a mount (which is just tacked to the frame for now): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...87ef913d_c.jpg I’d earlier posted about that huge S10 wiring harness, and here is how I dealt with it on the inside of the cab. For now my goal is to get the thing running and spend some time driving it and debugging any problems. I still plan to greatly thin out the harness (both under the hood and inside the cab) but I didn’t want to overdo it right now as I have very limited experience with wiring and zero experience with computers and fuel injected engines. I erred on the side of caution for now, but later on I will spend some time in the winter months making the harness simpler. For now I have a good idea of how to route that huge wiring harness under the dash, using those rubber lined clamps. Dealing with nuts and bolts up the far end of the dash is however not a ton of fun, so I installed studs wherever possible so that I can affix those wire clamps using only a nut later on. I also made the pass throughs in the 2 spots where the S10 harness goes through the firewall. I plan on sticking the bulk of the harness on the passenger side. The driver’s side gets pretty busy with the brake and steering assemblies that I fabbed up, so routing wires there would not be fun. Other than the firewall, there are really no good spots to affix those rubber lined clamps so I had to make some panel(s) to attach the clamps and to allow for relatively easy servicing of breakers, flashers and fuses. Here it is for now, securely fastened with the bulk of it on the passenger side. It’s not yet taped/loomed as I still have to figure out how to hook up heater, headlights, gauges, etc: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5793e43c_c.jpg As I continue to plug away at my to-do list, I keep spotting more stuff to do. The darn list is growing rather than shrinking. More to follow! |
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