Re: beginner painting
 

If the bodywork is straight I would block it with 220. I would put 2 coats of the permanent rust sealer aluminum pigmented non-leafing primer. Prime it with an epoxy surfacer and paint it. Be sure to check behind headlight inside the fender and also the bottom.

Re: beginner painting
 

"permanent rust sealer aluminum pigmented non-leafing primer" - what is this :)

I think the plan is to cut it all back and see if clean underneath ...... meaning I hit either metal and no rust ...... or skim body work and clean. Anywhere there is evidence of pinholes or "suspect" I will take back to metal and remove rust and reskim if need.

Then epoxy prime it and block it out as best as I can ...
then go from there ....

lmk --- will be my first one.

Re: beginner painting
 

Any of those suspect areas need to go to bare metal...epoxy prime...fix what's wrong...epoxy..high build and paint..without knowing what's under there you could have issues with different products reacting to each other...much better to start with clean metal and work your way out..

Re: beginner painting
 

Permanent rust sealer is the most anticorrosive primer there is it's not usually a body shop item. When you're going over the surface as body filler paint and bare-metal I use this as my base primer. Then I put the epoxy surfacer over it and then the paint. A body shop uses primers that are not airtight that's why body shop rust work generally sucks. You can go to the rust bullet or master coat websites and see how cars that are being done with these primers to minimize comebacks. I've been doing this for 40 years I have paint jobs out there one is 40 years old the other one is 16 and both cars are show. The 55 I did in 2006 were similar to the situation you have now.Good luck with your project I hope you don't become too confused

Re: beginner painting
 

Good point.
Do you need the high build or can you just use a good epoxy (regular) primer/sealer over the base metal/skim filler. Then base it.

So when at metal/skim fill ..... use this
https://nomorerust.com/store/rust-st...st-sealer.html ?

Then another primer ?

How come both primers - why cant you lay basecoast directly over that - it says can be sanded and topcoated.

:) Yes can be confusing. But just like the truck build itself ..... starts to work itself out - normally after I ask the same questions 3 times :)

thx good tips.

I like this guys videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTyAW-5fPw0

Re: beginner painting
 

2 different primers are used for a reason. Your base primer is usually an anti-corrosive type primer. Could be either an epoxy or urethane. by sanding it there's a strong possibility that you could wear it so thin that it would lose its anticorrosive properties. What I usually do I do my body work over my base primer which is usually a urethane and then after I'm done with the bodywork I reshoot it with the base primer because in some areas I'll be down to bare-metal. By using a sandable surfacing primer eliminates that situation and give you a nice smooth finish for your topcoat. When you're working the surfacing primer trust your hand more than your eyes. I don't restore vehicles I preserve them thats why when I paint something I wanted to last for decades not years. I've been using industrial primers since 1978 with automotive color coats over it haven't seen anything come back yet.You will learn a lot of things the hard way painting is a valuable skill that you will use for the rest of your life

Re: beginner painting
 

Good info !!!

Thx guys

Re: beginner painting
 

So ...... a little further down this road - but still some weeks/months off .....
Trying to finish off seats and panel alignment and probably door latches /seals and get her licenced.

I was initially going to go with SPI and do the full deal.
Strip down to bare metal
2 coats mastercoat rust sealer/convertor
2 coats epoxy primer
2 coats high build primer
2-3 coats base coat
2-3 coats clear

but that was looking like around $1500 or more using SPI.
Given Im a first time painter and using a HVLP turbine gun ...... Im basically thinking good chance I mess it up and waste $1500

So thinking .....

Scuff all the paint fairly aggressively (320 ?) and cut back problem areas to bare metal.
2-3 coats of epoxy prime (cheaper version) like here.

https://www.amazon.com/Speedokote-Pr...s%2C197&sr=8-7

So probably 2 full kits for 2.5 gallons.

Then basically block sand that for high spots .......
Spec Sheet says

"The SMR-260 is a fast dry, easy sanding 2K epoxy primer with great color and gloss holdout. .... After three days, the primer MUST be sanded prior to topcoat application"


Then no high build primer .... just do 2-3 coats of SS urethene after sanded/scuffed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...EF8EYMML&psc=1


That would around $450 in paint versus $1500.
It would allow me to practice with the turbine and see if I can lay down a good job without too much orangepeel and runs.

After that - assuming the paint last 5 years ..... and I still have the truck ...... I can decide on a true paint job with or without the turbine.

thoughts ?

Re: beginner painting
 

If That is the way you are going to go i would still use the SPI epoxy over the amazon stuff.
The amazon stuff is mixed 4:1 SPI epoxy is mixed 1:1. So for the $110.00 Amazon epoxy you get 1.25 sprayable gallons and for $208.00 you get 2 full sprayable gallons of SPI epoxy. For $20.00 a gallon cost savings does not justify using an inferior product in my opinion.

One other thing. I would stay as far away from the mastercoat stuff as possible. It may be OK on a blasted frame or suspension parts? But It has no use on autobody sheetmetal.

Re: beginner painting
 

Good Tip. Makes sense.
Have you used the epoxy primer from SPI before - does it sand ok if I try and go this route ? I think it makes the best sense to try and learn painting first rather than deep dive on a full restoration and that cost.

Re: beginner painting
 

I am by no means a paint expert and have nothing to compare it to but i think it sands excellent.

Re: beginner painting
 

Sands fine and you get good build if you have a straight panel you can block it out with 3 or 4 cotes and not need a high build

Re: beginner painting
 

Another vote for SPI.
I'm not a professional but have used SPI and really like it.
Sands fine and lays out real nice.
Kim

Re: beginner painting
 

After pushing the SPI epoxy you badmouth Mastercoat it's been used on body panels for the last 30 years with great success from some of the major restoration shops that send cars out Hershey every year. These shops prime the entire car to prevent comebacks they are completely primed with it inside out top and bottom.

Re: beginner painting
 

Mastercoat is knock off POR 15 product isn't it? I personally had great results with POR 15 on a blasted frame and top coated it with chassis black when it got tacky and it still looks great to this day. However there are a couple of reasons i would not use it on autobody panels.......1. to get the surface profile for me to feel comfortable that it is going to stick would require blasting the panels with such an aggressive media that i am sure there would not be a straight panel left. 2. No epoxy manufacturer is going to recommend to put their product on top of Mastercoat. 3. I am painting a car or truck and not a bridge or locomotive. 4. Painting is a system of coatings working together not piling multiple products on top of each other and crossing your fingers. 5. With the costs of base coats and clears and the amount of labor required to paint a vehicle i would not risk a paint job failure based on one web site or one persons recommendation (including mine).

We all have our own opinions and way of doing things to each their own. I will continue to use the latest technology, chemistry and engineering of this century and you can use means and methods that may have been used 30 or 40 years ago.

Re: beginner painting
 

Mastercoat is not a knockoff of POR 15 it's the other way around. In 1978 Stan Coleman supplies sold POR 12 metal filler it only came in silver. This was the Mobay primer rust sealer. When Stanley died the company was taken over and they changed the resin ,the thinner, and the pigment and that's when the problem started with adhesion to clean steel and difficulty painting over it especially the Blacks and the clear. Mastercoat uses an entirely different resin different thinner and primer type pigments that paint adhere to and sticks to clean steel. Epoxies and moisture cured urethane's have been around for decades and are constantly evolving. In corrosive environments the moisture cured goes down first followed by an epoxy intermediate primer and then a topcoat. This will run outdoors for 20 to 30 years. A automotive body shop production paint job would not withstand this. So if you doing a production paint shop is one thing if you're trying to preserve something for future generations we combine in industrial base with a automotive topcoat for appearance purposes.

I'm going to do a salt fog test with epoxies, some self etching primer, Rustoleim rusty metal primer, fluid film and a rust converter I'll post a video on this message board.

If you'd like to build salt fog cabinet the directions are on the Internet it's very inexpensive and easy to do

Re: beginner painting
 

Already been done ;)

I found this after your original post lupo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEyjR7jTWk

Re: beginner painting
 

Getting away from your original question about going over a little bit rust some old paint and maybe some bodywork that's hidden the Mastercoat can it be your best friend. My 55 is going on almost 15 years and is still show quality.The 55 had some paint and old bodywork we went over it worked out just fine. It's the only type of primer and will cut off the oxygen, the moisture and solvents

Re: beginner painting
 

Thanks.
Im going to grab some for that ans some furniture my wife likes :)
Do it all at once then hit the whole truck with some SPI expoxy primer.
SS black direct onto that.

Re: beginner painting
 

Be nice Liz is watching LMAO

Re: beginner painting
 

I'm always nice

Re: beginner painting
 

Double checking something here.
Its ok to shoot single stage direct over epoxy primer (SPI) ...... ?

Not planning on a high build intermediary on first attempt at spraying. I'll save that for a few years when I do the whole thing probably with a non turbine unit.

thanks

Re: beginner painting
 

Absolutely no problem it’s dun all the time you only need high build to level out and an imperfect surface

Re: beginner painting
 

Didn't read all-

You need a quality compressor to provide the CFM you need, and the correct gun to shoot it, and you don't NEED 60 gallons+.......-

I have the 1NNF7 and it is capable of delivering the CFM of larger tanks.
https://www.google.com/search?q=spee...hrome&ie=UTF-8

You need to match the gun to compressor, so if its to much for the HVLP, then get a LVLP gun..

Re: beginner painting
 

Thanks - thought so but wasn't 100% sure.
Pretty happy with how it looks now ..... body wise ...... but want to get some practice and a better coat of paint on it .... so start out with that.

Appreciated.