Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Beautiful! I will grab all I can off the 4.8. Dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Thanks again for posting your progress. What size tires did you ultimately wind up with in the front and back? Also, did you see any clearance issues under the cab when the cab was 3.5 inches over the frame (other than the engine manifold issue and the Tranny)?

While looking at your pictures, I saw your concern about the TB intake manifold hitting the hood bracing. When you get the alternator installed, you may have additional clearance problems in that area. The book will probably show a 135 amp alternator for this vehicle (trailblazer 5.3), but the more plentiful 110 (or115) amp truck version will work just fine. Since you will not have duel AC units and all the other goodies that normally went with the Trailblazer 5.3, I don’t see the need for the higher rated (and more expensive) 135 amp alternator. This is what we did on the GTO to save a few dollars. You can reduce the height of your engine by several inches if you were to switch to the LS1/6 Intake manifold and the Corvette accessory drive system. Using the insight gained from your build, I think this is what I will do. Again, thanks for all your hard work and documentation.

Ricky

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Ricky: Tire size 245-45-18 front and 255-55-18 rear. Factory wheel is 18 x 8. I would not have been offended by a sligthly taller front tire. Always thought I would resort the Vette intake if I had to. Studied the alternator last night. It should work based on its relative location to the cross member under the hood. Stay tuned on this one.

Other issues 1: The first set of cab mounting brackets I had to cut off the frame were those that interfered with the rear cab corners. They have to come off to even get started. I reused them on top of the frame for the rear mounts.

Other issues 2: Part of the fuel tank interfered, or so I thought, with the bottom of the cab. See photo below. Front right of the fuel cell. The grey thing sticking up. I cut a 10x10 section out of the floor. Turns out, it was not necessary. I will weld it back in. Any work I do on the fuel tank will require me to drop the tank which I probably would have had to do if in the Trailblazer.

Other issues 3: Turns out, after trimming the bottom brackets off of the core support and fitting the old core support in place, the factory radiator fits where it belongs except the bottom pipe fitting hits the cross member. Will use a new radiator that supports the 5.3 and have someone weld a 90 degree elbow turned up onto the radiator.

Other issues 4: The transmission mounting bracket does not quite reach the trans cross member. Will have to build a bracket for it to reach. Have not studied this too closely. May be able to move the cross member. Got my new transmission rubber mount today and will look more closely at it tonight or tomorrow.

Dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Revisit of "Other issues 4". I have the tail piece of the trans sitting on a 3"-ish piece of wood that is sitting on the trans cross memember. Had to do this because the trans bracket/mount does not quite reach the cross member. May be attributable to the fact that the V-8 is shorter than the in-line 6. In addition, if I install the new the trans mount in the proper vertical plain, it raises the tail piece of the trans and the top of the trans hits the bottom of the cab. The alignment of the driveshaft looks pretty good as well. Since I like were everthing is at this time, I intend to fabricate a bracket to reach the trans mounting bracket and keep it where it is. Possible problem exists witht he angle of the engine. It currently has a pretty steep rake to it. Does anyone know if the LS engines have a tolerance from horizontal that has to be honored? If so, and I have to raise it, I can cut the front of the trans tunnel where the interference occurs.

I have not investigated whether or not the trans cross memeber can be rotated 180 degrees or somehow moved to reach the trans. Will look at this soon.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Your driveline angle should be no more than 4 degrees down, but it needs to match the driveline angle of your pinion. I have a digital angle finder (easier on my poor eyes) that I use. I level the frame rails front to back (any jacking done to level, I do on the front to keep the rear wheels as loaded as possible). I then zero my digital angle finder and attach it to the pinion yoke. If it reads + 3, then I attach it to the tranny output shaft and move the tranny up or down until it reads - 3. Hope this helps. I was looking at the driveline tunnel on my wife's 07 5.3 Envoy last night trying to anticipate cab problems. It sure looks like you will need a center tunnel to achieve full driveline travel (my plan is to set the cab at around 3 inches over the frame). One question, it appears the part of the motor mounts that bolt to the frame and the rubber cushion are the same between the 6 and the V8, can you confirm? I found a 5.3 envoy oil pan/pickup tube and windage tray, I'm looking for the motor mounts.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

The motor mount rubber and the lower bracket are absolutely NOT the same between the V8 and inline 6. I found a pair in Arkansas and paid $80 for the pair including shipping. Dealer wanted $150 each. They dropped right in. One of the three bolts that holds the bracket to the frame actually hits the rubber part of the engine mount so I will trim off them by an inch or so. Bought new motor mounts and paid about $45 each for those from the Chevy dealer.

Right now, my cab is 5" off the frame in the front and 4.25" in ther rear. If you drop your cab to 3" off the frame, it will definitely need a larger trans tunnel.

Thanks for the driveline angle lesson. I will step back and rethink this a bit.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Good call on the driveline angle. Angle at the rearend is good. Will have to raise the transmission to the factory trans mount height to get it right. This will cause the trans to hit the bottom of the cab so some modification of the trans cover/cab floor will be in order.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Having the angle right also affects the fan to radiator relationship (something I would be checking at this point before you lock in the engine location). to much angle and the fan is not parallel to the radiator. If you are running fans on the radiator and not the engine it will not be as critical.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Good point. I am attempting to use the original core support that lands properly in the vertical location, however, it is way closer than stock to the engine. As a result of the apparent close proximity of the engine to the radiator (that I don't even own yet), I had decided to go with the electric fans. If I can manage a weekend at home like last weekend, I could probably get close to having things tied down and maybe even be able to start it. Had 17 inches (yep 1 foot 5 inches) of rain last weekend so it was a good time to be in the garage for a bunch of hours. Besides being the birthplace of Mardi Gras, Mobile gets credit for the most amount of rain per year (60+ inches). Both are a pain to deal with. Dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Ogre!!! I blew it.....After reading one of your other posts and noticing your masking tape bumper sticker regarding Motown, I realized I missed an opportunity to see your truck in real life. Just spent the entire week in Downtown Detroit on business. At least I got to see your incredible fireworks display. Maybe next time...dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Finally found some time to work on the truck. Got the rear Envoy body mounts tacked to the frame. I first bolted them to the body and then lowered on to the frame and tacked with the stick welder. Was going to use the MIG since I had been practicing with it but I ran out of gas.

Disassembled the front sheetmetal so I could get to the front mounts that had to be cut off the frame. Got the drivers side cut off and will move it around to line up with the factory body location. You can see where I cut the mount and you can see where the bolt is that it has to meet. Will have to trim the end that mounts to the frame slightly. Will have to trim the rounded in as well. It hits the body.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Thanks for posting pictures of your recent progress. I was concerned that the new house project might have relegated the truck to second string status sooner rather than later! How far off the ground are your rockers with where you are placing the cab? Eric and I are headed for the conclusion of his GTO and I am trying to talk the wife into doing the truck before the 58 - we will see.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Took a look at the GTO the other day and did not see any new photos. That thing will be nice when complete. The truck has fallen to third place behind the design of the new place and entertaining out of town family and friends on the weekends. I am looking forward to getting the momemtum back up this winter. Been watching shadow1967's 1959 Fleetside REBORN build thrash for motivation. Noticed he was going to put it together and drive it for awhile before final paint. Toying around with this idea. May get it together enough to use to build a house then go to final paint in a couple of years after I move into the new place.

Looks like 10-1/2" at the leading edge of the driver side rocker depending on which bend I measue to. Remember, the rear is unloaded and I have the front clip off. It will head towards 10" once I get the goods back on the truck which may be as soon as a couple of weeks. FYI....If you are laying on the ground looking under the truck, the bottom of the frame appears to be in the same plane as the bottom of the body. So far, my last minute decision to drop it an additional 3/4" has not back fired on me. Best I can tell from my pictures of the alternator clearance to the bottom of the hood (with X brace removed) is several inches. The throttle body, that I do not currently own, appears to clear the center hood structural piece as well.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Make that 9-7/8" to the bottom of the rocker. Confirmed on both sides. The cab was hung up on the top of the transmission. Got it out of the way and cut spacers for each side of the cab so it is exactly positioned in final location. Next move is to custom fit the factory brackets. Remember, due to transmission interference, I will be cutting the floor of the cab to install a slightly larger hump over the transmission. Also, another dimension that I have established is 16-7/8" from the flat face of the firewall to the center line of the front shock bolt. dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Hey
Thanks for stopping in on my 58 LS Build....
Yours looks great and I don't think we are too far apart in build ...it's always intresting to see a few projects that are similar in style and build it's a great way to come across great ideas. Keep up the fine work I am sure I wll be back to check on your progress.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Thanks again for posting your measurements. When you said the flat part of the firewall was 16 7/8 from the centerline of the shock tower bolts, I am assuming the "shock tower bolt" is the actual shock end - correct?

In an earlier post, you said your cab was 4.25" above the frame (in the back). When you took the 9 7/8ths measurement on the rocker, was the cab at the 4.25" above the frame height? My thought is to try and get the frame -to-cab distance reduced so that the "static height" of the truck rockers will be in the 8 inch range. Based on your measurements, I think I could get there by using the Envoy floorpan/firewall. (floorpan is less than 2 inches above the Envoy frame on the wifey's Envoy).

My son Eric and I are going to hit it hard on the GTO tomorrow through Monday (I'm taking a vacation day) in an attempt to get the GTO (almost) fully roadworthy. I will post picture of the current status on Monday or Tuesday night. We have been driving it in the evenings on the city streets and it is a blast! Our family is headed to Orange Beach for a few days after the first of August, so we will be in your neck of the woods! Good luck.

Ricky

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Yes, shock tower "bolt". The one in middle. We are in Orange Beach now. I will take some dimensions with photographs next time in the garage so there is no question. Get that GTO done so you can get to the good project! dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Here is the latest.
- The first photo shows the shock tower bolt location at 16-3/4" from firewall. When I welded the rear cab mounts and tightened the bolts, it pushed the cab forward 1/8" which ultimately helped with my rear wheel location slightly. Remember, stock wheelbase of the Envoy is a hair short for the Fleetside.
- The second photo shows the 4" tall wooden spacer for the front of the cab. Note that the leading edge of the wooden spacer is approximately 3/16" behind the Envoy body mount bracket directly below the firewall that I cut off. Look for the fresh metal.
- The third photo shows the welded rear cab mount. The top of the body mount pad/bottom of the cab rail is 3-11/16" above the frame rail.
- The lower you go with the cab, the closer you get to the bottom of the cab interfering with the top of the fuel tank sending unit. The 4th picture is of the floor piece I cut out many weeks ago when I first started placing the cab thinking the floor was in the way. Thought it was a mistake. Turns out, it is really close. The 5th picture is of the clearance to the top of the sending unit and the cab floor. I have about 1/4" to go before it hits. If you lower your cab any more than this, you will have to make provisions to clear. If you do clear it, you have approximately 1.25" to go before the structural lateral cab metal hits the top of the fuel tank. There does not appear to be any other obstacles. You said you were going to use the firewall. If you have already done so, you may consider using the floor as well. By the way, I had forgotten about this potential interference when I lowered the cab over my previous studies. Glad you asked for the dimensions. Dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Dug, I was checking out your build and I noticed that you live in Mobile, nice to see another Mobilian on this board. I have a 58 Apache too that's a daily driver. I'd love to come check out your project sometime.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Rawkinbones13....would love to see your truck. Check your private messages. dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Thanks for the pictures and the measurements. After looking at several Fleetside pickups at Goodguys - Columbus earlier this month, and the fact I learned to drive in a 58 F@#d fleetside pickup, I decided that I would ditch the step side bed on my 55 pickup in favor of a fleetside. I purchased a fleetside bed and need to make a road trip (350 each way) to pick it up. Eric and I got all the sheet metal painted and installed on his GTO (I posted pictures) and we have been driving it several miles each evening. Good luck with your project, I hope to be starting the next one this fall. How hard was it to disassemble the fleetside bed? If it can be done in 2 - 3 hours, I will go in my S10 Pickup instead of pulling a trailer behind my Surburban.

Ricky

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

We had the bed off and fully apart in less than an hour. Would fit nicely in the S-10 if broken down. Mostly cut the bolts with a cutoff wheel on grinder due to rust. The few I tried to unbolt sheared off. Wood was totally rotten and the rails were pretty beat up so being careful was not an issue. Since the wood was rotten, we could lift the rails and cut them from the top side of the bed which was pretty easy overall. Had a couple of 1" to 2" sheetmetal welds at the back of the bed near the tailgate. If I had it to do over, I would have left it together until I sorted out it's location on the truck.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Finally got back on the project. I included a series of photos that start with the front left cab mount placement. First photo is of the mount bolted to the bottom of the cab. The mount was not quite large enough to reach the frame so I tried my hand at fabrication for the first time and extended it with small pieces of frame metal that came off the frame horns. Turned out pretty good thanks to my grinders but my MIG welding leaves much to be desired. Had a blast doing it and can see how you can get carried away and start doing crazy things like pancaking a hood and such!!!! Practice practice practice....

Once the cab was on, I reinstalled the front clip less the inner fenders. The orignal core support fits nicely but is not quite centered on the frame horns although the outside face of the front tires are positioned exactly the same distance from the face of the fenders on both sides. Off about 3/4". The Envoy engine location is not centered in the frame either so it looks a bit out of sorts. Can't explain it. As long as the tires are in the correct location, I am going with it. Note the Envoy body mounts will be welded to the '59 core support (upside down from stock) and they will sit on top of the Envoy frame. I mocked up the inner fender with cardboard and have determined the amount of material that will have to be removed to clear the suspension. Will cut those out next weekend.

Put the doors in the holes using clamps. The hinges were welded to the driver door and worn out on the passenger door so much work to do. I believe I can go ahead and tack the front core support mounts without hanging the doors. Just need to make sure the front fenders and cab body line are all lined up.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

A few more photos...

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Nice looking truck! I'm considering something similar. I picked up a 58 and 59 and between the two of them could build a pretty much original truck. I'd rather have a sweet looking 59 with all of the modern conveniences. If you don't mind me asking...what did your donor frame cost? I'm trying to keep my build "reasonably" priced so I was originally looking at a mid 80's pickup that had a beat up body, but good stuff underneath. Four wheel disc brakes sounds pretty nice though. I'm going to build a flat bed, so mounting the bed isn't an issue. I just want to drop the cab on top of the engine, tranny, frame, and then tuck everything inside. Any thoughts from someone who's been down this road before?

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

A lot of work but you're getting there.
Kim

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Great to see you working on the truck. As usual, your pictures and descriptions will make it so much easier for those of us who take this approach to building a TF truck. I'm all in now on this method of building as I have purchased a 2003 Trailblazer EXT frame and other parts for my 55 TF.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Nice...Did yours come with the V8?

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

The problem I had selecting a donor was the track width. Everthing seemed to be too wide. The Dynacorn project reference earlier in my thread convinced me to go this way. I paid $800 for the "fully loaded" frame. Came with everthing except wheels/tires, engine, transmission and radiator. Even got the jack/tools, spare and a full tank of gas. Pay attention to the color of the body mounts. They are painted and I suspect they belong in a certain location on the frame depending on load. I did not so all I can do is make sure I have the same color rubber mounts across from each other. The oil pan unique to this vehicle so, if you are going 5.3 or 6.0 liter LS, it would be easier to get one that came out of an Envoy/Trailblazer rather than a truck or SUV. Get your thread started so we can enjoy...and lots of pictures...dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

No, it had the six. I have a 2001 LS6 engine (out of a 2001 Corvette ZO6) that is on the engine stand. It is a really strong engine, but after pricing conversion parts vs pullout engines with all the accessories, I may buy an 5.3 envoy envoy engine and bolt it in. My son is driving the GTO so we may never finish it!!! I'm not in a super rush right now as I am working on the frame of the wife's 58 corvette restomod. The truck will have to wait it's turn.

Ricky

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Forgot you had the Z06 in stock. That will be nice if the cost does not choke you. Would love follow the '58 vette build. Let me know if you are showing it on a thread. dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Kim57...thanks for encouraging all of us. It helps! Dug

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Got the driver side inner fender cut and in place. The first photo shows the inner fender before I trimmed it to miss the frame horn. The last picture an inside shot of the inner fender at the frame horn. May need some intput on how to treat the raw edges. I noted the Dyancorn truck left the edge raw and simply painted. May flange it or try to find a rubber edge to put on it to make it look more finished.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Got the front clip back on with all bolts in place. Practiced repairing sheetmetal by MIG welding the fatigue breaks in the driver side sheet metal that covers the core support. Photo does not do it justice. The cracks were everywhere. When I bolted it back on, new cracks appeared. I will go ahead and weld a new tab next time the welder is on since the sheetmetal is worn so thin. Still have to design the core support mounts and get them in place. Will cut the cab floor after the core support so I can get the transmission back where it belongs and the driveshaft in place.

Real pleased with the gaps especially after shimming the fenders at the door. Got it all adjusted including the hood hinges and photographed before I put the hinge springs back on. Once I put the springs back on, it became evident pretty quickly that they are worn out. The hood now sticks up above the cowl about 1". Will replace with new soon.

To protect my shinny new wheels, I picked up some canvas wheel covers from Harbor Freight for $8.99 (pkg of 4). Comes with integral wire that keeps it clamped to the tire. Figured they would come in handy during painting as well.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Looks like you're making good progress.
Kim

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Got the front clip lined up. There were a lot of variables to consider. I had to "unshim" the top of the passenger fender at the cab to get the passenger side to line up. Had to slightly sand the body line and paint it (see gold paint) so I could see the body ridge and line it up with the string. Will weld supports in place this weekend and move to cutting out the floor to clear the transmission.

Multiple shots of the driver side core support mount. Heated and bent one of the mounting tabs to line up with the structural piece on the core support. I will need to add some material to the fender liner for bracing since I have cut out so much for the suspension and core support mount.

One shot thru the headlight hole so you can see the general clearance of suspension and wheel.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

two more shots....

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Looks like you're making good progress.
Kim

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Your frame swap is coming out very nice, very nice. Great job buddy.

Re: Dug's 1959 Fleetside
 

Got the core support mounts tacked in place. Proceeded to roll it outside to cut the floor for the transmission. The aluminum driveshaft is about 3" short. Will see about getting it lengthened next week.