Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I like what you are doing, and the fact that you are hammering through it.
I wish I'd the balls to make those kinds of changes on mine, but alas, I'm kind of an old fuddy traditionalist.
If my head does not hit the roof when going over a railroad crossing, I think something is wrong........

What will happen is as the leaf spring compresses and unloads, they will force the axle to twist on the springs, since the ladder is not compressible between the axle and frame.

So as it goes up, (compresses), the nose of the axle will be forced down, cause the leaf is now longer.
As it unloads, goes down, the nose will be forced up, because the leaf is not shorter.

You will be able to test this easily with the truck jacked up and a set of tires on it, by raising and lowering the axle.

You have two different ladders in your design, one is fixed, the other, (spring), will elongate or shorten depending on load.

That is the problem.

Most link design have two equal length tubes on each side, not one that changes length. Look at a 32 high boy. The way around this is a hairpin type where both tubes connect at one point on the frame. That lets the axle pivot the nose to allow the drive train to stay inline.

If they both have roughly the same length you may not have that much of an issue, but because it looks cool does not mean it will work real well.
That pic that you posted of the long ladders under that truck looks cool but also like a lot of stuff for nothing.
My thought is that a traditional simple bolt on ladder that hits the leafspring would be much better than that, like is what is used on Camaro's, and would be protected by the tires.
Also, why not mount the ladder on top of the axle to get it out of harms way?

I went back and looked to see how my lowered truck's shocks were mounted.
We moved used the same brace you have, and made a bracket tht moved the shock back a few inches.
Works ok so far.
You could also bolt that spare tire carrier back after reinforcing it.

There is a elegance in simplicity.........
The guys that designed these trucks 40 years ago where a lot smarter than we all realize.
The only real improvement in their designs have been with the computers; engine control, auto transmissions, etc.
Not easy to fix the basics.

It's yours!
Built what you want, then tell us how it works.
We might all be changing to your design if works.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

wow nice swb frame! what size are those rear wheels? they look huge!

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Conroe - thanks for information. If my design doesn't work I'll man up and post it for the group.

I like the idea of trying to get a spare back on the cross member.

Nice pic of your frame. Looks great! I hope to moving that way soon.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I am also not an expert on the traction bar issue but I do have some great first hand knowledge of the system. This traction bar issues is alwasys a huge debate from both sides. Yes the type of traction bars I build will provide a stiffer ride (than without the bars) but it will definatly keep your axle planted on the ground. If you mount a ladder bar system (bars on top and bottom of the axle that connect to the frame at a single point) this ride will be even harsher and allow almost zero movement in any direction. The bars I built keep the axle planted MOST OF THE TIME. I am running a 468 with 35's and a line lock. If I lock the front and mat it I get some wheel hop, if I let off and feather the throttle (keep it under 6000rpm) the hop goes away. I have found out the longer the bar the better. A true four link system is best way to ensure no wheelhop.
We have multiple trucks running the single bar system and have overall good luck all around.

If I was going to critique your bars at all I think they are a little short, other than that you will have to watch the heims you are using. They will were out pretty quick and start to rattle. If you dont drive it a bunch it could take a long time though.

Great build, keep it up!!

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I believe it keeps the wheels planted, but it also obliterates the point of having a rear suspension, preventing the springs from functioning as intended. To each his own, but I can't believe there are people who think that stopping the virtually essential fore-aft movement of the axle is A Good Thing™. I won't say more on the subject, especially in this poor guy's build thread. :)

Brent

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

x2. On with the build! Any updates?

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

You have your opinion and I have mine so I guess you'll have to accept it and respect it or stop posting in my build thread. :devil:

Yes I do have an update - thanks for asking yellow70GMC. Last night I was able to get my cross member lengthened 3.5" and welded together. I think I broke my vise trying to bend the added piece of steel to the same shape as my cross member. :waah: All I need to do is finish grinding the welds flat and drilling some holes to mount it to the frame. I also picked up some grade 8 hardware at the local automotive faster shop today for the cross memberand for the new shock mounts I made. The upper shock tabs I ordered from Barnes 4WD were supposed to be here today but I guess they'll be here tomorrow. :whine: I was ready to get this finished up tonight but I guess it will have to wait until I return from business travel on Friday.

I decided I wanted to put on front axle on as well to be sure my front dual shock mounts attched without any issue but noticed my new U-bolts were lining up as well as I hoped. If you remember I have a 71 chevy C10 converted to 4x4 so I don't know if the U bolt brackets or the Dana 44 is original or not. Anyways, I needed a tool to expand and compress my U bolts about a 1/4" to get them to line up with the bracket holes. I stopped by Home Depot on the way home and was going to make a widget of some sort when I came across this sweet Irwin tool which works for compressing and expanding. :bann:

I'm really hoping to have my frame and suspension completely together this weekend before Sunday. If this works out I can then take it apart next week and get it sent out for sandblasting. I still haven't decided yet if I am going to powder coat it, paint it or coat it with aSEM liner like my buddy Nick used to coat the frame of the 67 Mustang he restored. :crazy: My front and rear ends are powder coated Speedway Black (tons of metallic flake) so I'll probably do the same on my frame.

I did all of this pre-work with the hope I don't need to do any more welding or major surgery afterwards so I could powder coat - but you know how that goes. Nick loves the liner concept, powder coat is so durable and paint just seems easier. What do you guys think?

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

your u bolts must be 2.75" and the top plate is 3" from a slightly newer axle...

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I would say powdercoat, depending on the cost of that liner. powdercoated stuff is sooo nice if you ever take your truck offroad, mud and stuff comes right off with just a hose most of the time.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I agree. Powder coat is very nice. Especially when it has a clear coat too.

Mike - you see any issues making the U bolts fit? Those long bolts flex a lot. I guess I could swap the bolts, Summit has always been great about that. And do you think Freeney is going to be able to play Sunday? I bet he plays all 3rd and longs.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

All of mine is powder coated then toipped with clear. It was one of the best decisions I made on the build. I agree on your one thought thou....... you need to have everything mocked up EVERYTHING. I had ALMOST everyhting. I never put my driveshafts in because I thought they would be fine. Well I have a 1350 cv in the front shaft and it is a lot bigger than the stock 1310 stlye. Bottom line is I had to grind the top side of the crosssmemeber jsut to get it to fit. Plus I wish I could add a set of front traction bars (let the flaming start on why anyone would ever want to do this...ahhahah) but I have no place on the frame to attach them to now!!

Bottom line- just make sure you like everything before it goes to the powdercoaters!!

Good luck and keep the pics coming

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Front traction bars would rock! :metal:

Glad to hear the powder coat decision was a winner. Yellow70GMC makes a good point about cleanability too.

6600Duramax, do you know the supplier of your powder coat? The speedway black w/clear coat I have on my axles is a ' prismatic powders.' And how did you touch up the spot your spot on the cross member after you had to grind it? This speedway black has a ton of metal flake in it so I was concerned about using a 2 stage to fix areas needing extra work and the powder to be removed. I actually called NIC Industries and they said they would mix me some 2 stage urethane liquid at $64.95/qt. :jdp:

How did you strip your frame? Sand blast or chemically? Did you also powder coat your leaf springs and traction bars?


Sorry for all the questions but I appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

My upper shock tabs were here when I returned from my trip Thursday. ;)

Yesterday I sanded my shock cross member welds flat as well as drilling 1/2" bolt mounting holes for it and my frame . I still struggle with underestimating the time it takes to cut, grind, weld and drill steel. :crazy:

Today I noticed my lower shock brackets did not provide enough space in between my shocks when mounted so I had to start over. I hate it when that happens. :waah: After some corrective surgery and adding some flat washers I was finally able to get one lower shock bracket tack welded to my axle housing. Unfortunately, I have to travel again this week but I'll get back at it later this week.

One important point I failed to mention was when determining the location of my shock cross member I had to take into consideration the max and min stroke length of my shocks. I needed to make sure the shocks I used were near fully extended without weight on them so when I put the engine and body on it, and go to carry a load down the road it could compress under the additional weight. My SLF-85140 Superlift rear shocks had a max extension of 26" and a min extension of 16" (checked them myself to be sure). My shocks will extend to 22" mounted under no weight except for the frame so I have room in both directions..

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

more progress than I had... I was in little rock all week.. good news was that the chief of staff of PA informed me that i'm now promotable and moving into a Bn S3 job...

GO COLTS!!!

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Congrats brother. I was the 504 PIR BDE S-3 Air for about 2 years so I know a little bit about that stuff. Long hours, and no sleep during the MDMP working hand-in-hand with the RAVN (Regimental Aviation officer) seting up air corridors and air assaults was the norm for me. I pissed of a few BN S-3s in my day but I managed to keep my rank some how. GOOD MEMORIES.

Go Colts!

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Freeney is "da man"...

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

That was an awesome sack. He pushed that boy back like he was nothing. If the rest of the defense plays with the same passion and heart as Freeney the Saints don't stand a chance - even if they got an onside kick. . .

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

worst throw I've seen Peyton make all year... so be it.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I hate to see Peyton lose like that. Ouch. . .

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Looks like you have come a long way. The powder coating on the axles looks great. A word of advice, Do not use a cinder block on its side to support a load. The side is the weakest part of the block.

O2 sensors are emission equipment, as are your spark plugs. I would have taken it to a dealership and have them change it along with the plugs. Emissions equipment is covered under warranty to at least 100k or 10 years by federal law.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Silver 7 - I did have the springs and traction bars powdercoated. For the springs I took them 100% apart then had to reassemble them. It was a pain in the @ss but it looks great once done. Again I would have it all powdercoated once you are sure you have everything mocked up and are happy with it.

It will be the best decision you make. I will encourage you to take a look at your local powdercoaters work ahead of time. We have a couple withing 20-30 miles from me that do OK work, BUT I took mine some 3hrs away because their work was flawless AND CHEAPER !!!!! Do some research.

Good luck and keep up the progress

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Great advice. The guy I use told me to be sure I took the leaf springs apart so they could be done right.

Did you sand blast or chemically strip prior?

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

powdercoaters will blast the metal then PC it...

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

My guy uses chemical stripping. I had planned on taking it to another place for sand blasting but was curious how 6600DURAMAX did his. I've heard pros and cons from both sides.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

My powdercoater sandblasted all mine. I thought the powdercoat would fill in a little better than what it did or i would have smoothed out some areas better than I did. But in all reality it is just a frame and you have to be about 4'' away from it to see the marks. I also welded all my unused holes shut BUT during sandblasting there were some small pinholes that popped through that you can see now. But again it is just a frame and you have to really look to see them.

One other thing, check and see if you guys puts a top coat of clear powder on. All mine has a base coat then is cleared on top. Makes it look a little sharper

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I had to travel to AL for work the last 3 weeks so progress has been slow but steady.

Yesterday I was able to finish the majority of the fab work (4" extended length, 15 degree angled mount towards shocks, holes drilled, shock tabs welded, 1/2" lift brackets on btm because frame is larger in new spot versus original location near rear bumber) on my shock Xmember and mount up my dual shocks on both sides. Other than the boogered welds not bad for a newbie. All I need to do is weld a strip of steel across each set of tabs and it is done. :lol:

Today I was able to find a local 4x4 shop which had the right size U-bolts for my truck. I learned all chevys with front leaf springs have 3 u-bolts at one size and a fourth at a larger size. Makes sense once you try putting your front axle on. :crazy:

Once I got my front axle mounted I was able to mount my passenger side dual shock mounts. Only needed to drill 2 holes. Tomorrow I'll finish the drivers side then begin taking it apart for sandblasting. Oh ya!! :bann:

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I could have told you about the U-bolts!

I had a local spring shop bend mine for me...

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

subscribed

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

nice progress.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

What are your plans for this truck when done? Jumping or dune running? Reason I ask is it's going to ride very stiff with dual shocks on all corners.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Got my drivers side front dual shocks mounted tonight. I was about to finish drilling what should be the last holes which need to be drilled in the frame where the front spring hanger attaches to the bottom of the frame when my drill bits died on me. I'll get a few more tomorrow and finish so I can start taking it apart. I could literally be ready to take this thing to get sand blasted in a few days. . .

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Are you going to add a front sway bar from a 70's truck? They mount to the front U-bolts and a modified front crossmember... just a though before you are done with a cab.

Also, if you plan to add factory front tow hooks (or others) and a rear reece hitch be sure that you have the holes drilled.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I don't plan to add a sway bar but I will use a steering stabilizer.

You bring up a good point about the tow hooks and a rear hitch. Thanks.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

I installed my hitch and it also was powdercoated at the same time with the frame. Cleaner look.

Something to think about

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Frame is stripped and ready for some sand, with everything else bagged and labeled. Hopefully I can get it moved by Friday.

Also sold my tires and rims tonight. Anyone know of a good deal on some nice 35" tires (12.5 or 14.5" wide on 16" or larger aluminum rims) available for sale?

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

How do the front tow hooks normally mount to the front of the frame? My frame is a C10 frame so it wasn't set up for any tow hooks. I'm sure I could fab a piece but I would be interested in seeing some pics if anyone has any to share.

Thanks.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

your 71 would have had the common 69-72 tow hooks... should be plenty of pics on the forum, 60-68 had one style and there were also a special 72 extreme bend style...

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Thanks Mike.

Dropped my frame off in Greensboro today for sand blasting.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

Picked up my frame and misc parts from sandblasting today. Cost $160 and he did a great job. Time to give it a light sanding to smooth the rough finish from the sand.

Re: Project: Custom 71 4x4 hotrod
 

are you painting the frame? Epoxy primer should smooth it out... good price though