Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

From the measurements, a stock G-body center link should fit. If I can't get the mustang rack to fit then the g body center link and z28 steering box are plan b.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Long time since an update but the project is not dead. Between family and work I'm a bit short on time but I'm sill inching forward. Been limited to gathering parts so far.
Change of plans on the rack though. The more I thought about the mustang rack the more I didn't like it. For a crossmember designed for it, it's fine. For a retrofit, it has its problems. Lack of travel for one, but the bigger headache is the mounting. Not sure who engineered it but the offset mounting bolts suck. With them offset to one side and one being higher than the other, I can see nothing but problems trying to get it mounted where I want.
Then there's the part of hooking it up to the spindles. The mustang rack is 9/16 fine thread. From there the Ford outer tie rod won't fit the gm knuckle and I never found an outer that fits the GM spindle with 9/16 threads. 97 camaro outer tie rods fit the GM knuckle but they are 14mm thread. I've seen where guys have ran a 9/16 tap through the 14mm threads and that honestly scares the crap out of me.
Originally my plan was to ream the spindles to 7 degrees and use the mustang outer tie rods. Down side there is if I switch to drop spindles or ever have to replace one then I need to ream it again.
The other day at work I had a 99 2WD ranger in for an alignment. I had completely forgotten that they ran rack and pinion for a couple years on the really narrow chassis. Inner tie rod width is approximately 25 inches, very similar to the mustang rack. 14mm threads match up to the camaro outer tie rods, no drilling or reaming. At 3 1/2 turns lock to lock it has 6 inches of travel which is more than the mustang. The best part though, the two mounting bolts are in front of the rack, centered and go straight up and down. I can fine tune the bump steer with washers under the rack. Couldn't do that with the mustang unit.

Made a trip to the you pull it over the weekend. $25 for the rack, hoses, cooler and steering shaft wasn't bad.
Side by side they are very similar, except for the mounting bolts.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...pscpwpn1pb.jpg

Temporarily mounted to see how things line up. So far it looks pretty good under there, after I get the crossmember notched it should tuck in nicely.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...psjhsj1awj.jpg

So "officially" I was going to the you pull it to get parts for my kids cars, which was true. Needed a driveshaft for his camaro and some seat parts for her pickup. Found both of those so it was a good trip. Aside from the steering gear, I also found a formula trans am in the back of the yard. 15 min and$10 later I had a huge 36mm front sway bar. Note- F-Body sway bars won't fit stock S10 frames. G-body and S10 frames with 4 inches added however do fit.

Second yard I went to had an extreme s10 up on stands with the rear end already out. Rear sway bar and factory lowering springs just sitting there. $65 well spent. Pretty good score for a day in the yard. Now I just need to get some time in on the truck.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...pskd3hcyfs.jpg

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Good deal on the ranger rack. Nice score at the wrecking yards.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

So I finally got to put some time in on the pick up this past weekend. Might sound crazy, but the first step in all of this was to do a basic front end alignment. Doing alignments for a living I know small adjustments make a big change in the front end. With the frame up on jack stands, and the suspension mocked up at ride height. I set both sides at 0 degrees camber and about two and a half degrees caster. Changing caster affects the height of the outer tie rod, which in turn affects bump steer. From there the next step was to mock the rack up at approximate height and Mark on the frame where I needed to cut. And then stare at it for 20 minutes to make sure the marks are in the right spot and decide if this is what I really want to do.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...psqnzesuao.jpg

From there it was a lot of slow cutting and the end result is a scary looking hole in the frame.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...psk4vyzxms.jpg

The rack has a casting line right in the middle which helped helped line things up. The tape mark on the frame was centered between the lower control arm bolts.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...psxyyq7yu2.jpg

After most of an afternoon this is what I have.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps1q1udn77.jpg

It would have helped to have the hoses and cooler out of the way but then I have to deal with the endless dripping oil that comes with it.
I bet I checked bump steer 15 times as the day went on. It looked rather redneck but it worked.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...psqeww5nio.jpg

It doesn't give me any numbers but I get a visual reference of what toe is doing through up and down travel. With my redneck setup I know there is almost 4 inches of travel where toe stays pretty still. Above or below that it starts to toe in. No surprise with the tie rods being on the short side. I have about a half inch of vertical adjustment to play with using washers. Another reason why I like the ranger rack. Vertical mounting bolts.

I didn't plan on it ending up that way but the mounting ears are flush with the bottom of the frame.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps6vepv9gw.jpg

The original mount on the ranger frame was two pieces of 1/8" plate that formed a V on its side to keep it rigid. There's nothing low enough on the frame for that to be an option. I have some 3/8x2 1/2" flat stock that I think I'm going to just mount on the bottom of the frame extending forward. The front edge will have a brace going up to the frame rails for support and a skid plate to keep it from digging in. Our gravel roads suck out here.


My next step from here is to finish the cab mounts, mount the steering column, engine mounts and then from there see what I need to do for the steering shaft. I did round up a Corvette ram horn for the drivers side so i can make sure it clears. Haven't cut the hole in the top of the frame yet. Waiting till I'm ready so i don't cut too much. Speaking of big holes, the one on the front of the crossmember is going to get plated around the drivers side arm mount. That whole area will be 1/4" thick. Any feedback is welcome. Good bad or other wise.

Nick

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Ahh the good old "stare at the project to make sure it's whet you want to do" thing. Yes I know it well! Adding the plate across the bottom should work well for everything.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Any chance in running the ranger rack further away so you dont have to cut into the frame? Or would this destroy the front end alignment characteristics?

Looking to do the same with my S-10...

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

better than the wild toe OUT that s10s are known for at the limit.

great job of figuring it all out, thats the hardest part of doing something no one has done.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Technically, yes. But it will really hurt the handling. Ackerman is the steering angle that's affected by moving the rack forward or back. The inside wheel needs to turn farther than the outside. Usually around 1 to 3 degrees more than the outside is what I have seen on the vehicles I have checked. I still have yet to get a 2wd S10 on the rack and see what stock Ackerman is. When you crank it to the stops in a parking lot and the front tires slide like it's in 4wd, that's because the Ackerman isn't correct. Most of the auto makers just settle for close enough. I'm hoping when it's together it will at least be close enough.

Anyway, sorry about droning on. The short version, moving the rack forward changes the angle that the tie rod pushes on the knuckle. Near center it won't affect much. If it is moved 4 inches forward to clear the crossmember it will toe in severely when turning tight.

Nick

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Yea, it's like they didn't put much effort into the steering. 78-87 G-bodys were unchanged through the years. The S10 is just a 4" narrower version that was also unchanged over the years. I figured I probably couldn't make it worse.

Nick

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

I like your modifications. Good to know you are an alignment person. Might have questions down the road

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Ask away, I don't mind. Started doing them about 25 years ago. At the GM dealer I'm working for now I've been averaging about 1,000 a year. That's part of the reason I wasn't too scared of the chassis mods.

Nick

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

If all of us are an expert in one thing, than together we can do anything. Keep up the good work.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

God I really hate photobucket right now. There's no way I'm paying them $400 a year. I'm still trying to download my photos so I have them. Question, is it worth continuing this thread or should I just start a new one when I get back to building?

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

I say continue! if you use flickr, put everything you lost in one album and link it.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

+1 Continue here please.
If you lost your old pics, I still have them as a back-up file. I download any file I find usefull for future reference before I even begin putting money aside to buy my own project. So, if you lost some/all of your pics, just tell me which post you lost and I'll compress the pictures and e-mail 'em to any e-mail you want me to.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Ok, talked me into it. First off, if anyone wants pictures from earlier in the thread let me know and I'll upload them.
Took a day for myself today and made some progress. Cut two pieces of 3/8x2 1/2" strap for the rack mounts. For now they are bolted to the bottom of the crossmember with four 3/8"self tapping bolts. It's rigid enough I can steer it around for now. They will get burned in later when the body mounts are fully welded and the crossmember gets plated around the holes. The extra material in front of the rack is for mounting the Skidplate and forward brace. With the rack mount being the lowest point on the front end I want it protected. The county likes to make wind rows with the gravel sometimes and both my accord and Impala bottom out on them. Don't need the rack getting trashed right away.
The steering shaft was next. I managed to get it in only two cuts. My jigsaw was not happy with me but it got the job done. If I was running an inline engine I would be set. I'm almost positive that after I get the engine back in I'm going to need another u-joint to clear the corvette manifolds I picked up. I'll take that when I get there.
Also took some time to pull out the original seat mount. What a PITA. At least it's done. Cut the lower flange loose from the column and rest fit it a little more where it needs to be. Thinking about moving the bottom of the column up and to the left a bit. Should help with exhaust clearance a little.

Nick

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Okay, I need to do something different. This two updates a year thing is getting ridiculous. Still slowly moving forward when I can get time. Just way too much stuff going on lately. After getting the garage cleaned out for graduation this year I was finally able to get some time in on the pickup. One of the best investments a made in a while it is I bought a new welder. The little flux core welder I had was good enough to tack weld stuff together but then I had to take it somewhere else to fully weld it which was a massive pain in the butt. This one, will only being 110v is rated for up to quarter inch but will easily burn together 1/8" steel. Moved vehicles and found a slab of concrete that was actually somewhat flat, got the front end pulled off and the frame up on jack stands. Verified it was level and then started working out a plan for the rear cab mounts. Mine was one of the early ones with the shackle in the middle and just a couple rubber bumpers out on the sides. I ran a piece of 1 by 2 3/16 wall tubing full width under the back of the cab and use that as a place to mount my cab mounts to. I figured that should spread the weight out enough. With the top half figured out the pedestals were next. Rather than build it all from scratch I ended up reusing parts of the original cab mounts. it happened to line up with the outside of the frame. Piece of 1/8" flat on the outside wrapping around the side of the frame and one on the back for now. I will add one on the front side when I pull the cab and do all the Finish welding.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

More pictures from the latest round.

Nick

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Glad to see your still plugging away.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Taking shape...Jim

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

just came across your build. good stuff. nice to see something not many have done or documented. luv the patina. and that driveway setup is on point. amazing how much room a build takes up!

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Me too.

Slowly.


Thank you.I like tying new things. I have a few more ideas I want to add to it before I'm done. My wife isn't real impressed with how much space it takes sometimes lol.

Nick

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

looking great, keep plugging at it

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

Put some more time in this weekend and made some good progress. After the cab mounts the next big step was the motor mounts. The clamshell style mounts are stronger but they just don't look good. I went with the standard old style Chevy mounts. Rubber for now and if they don't hold up I'll switch to poly later.

I'm too cheap to buy frame mounts if I can make them. Plus I'm kinda picky on premade stuff. I wanted to make sure the motor was back as far as possible for weight distribution and possible fan radiator clearance but still have room behind the distributor. I've seen hundreds of homemade motor mount designs over the years. I guess as long as the motor stays in place there's no wrong way to do it. I started with a piece of 1 1/2" x3/16" angle and a piece of tubing. The plan was to copy the pedestal mount and not have all the weight and engine torque hanging on the engine bolt. With the first pieces in the puzzle made I bolted them up and set the motor in place. After measuring 15 times to make sure the chassis and engine was level I started cutting plates. I started with cardboard and then transferred that to 1/8" plate. With two tacked on each side I unbolted the engine from the mounts and lifted the motor and transmission out making sure not to hit the mounts on the way. From there it was a long afternoon of cutting, trimming, test fitting, more grinding and then finally tack it in place then move to the next one.

Re: It's my turn, 47 S10 build
 

The drivers side worked out easier than I thought it would with the steering shaft running through the cross member. After getting all 8 plates cut and burned in and cleaning up the welds where the mounts sit I threw some primer on it and dropped the motor back in. It was really nice after all that work to be able to drop it in place and run the bolts in without a hammer. In hindsight they are probably overbuilt but this way I don't have to worry about it later if I switch engines.