Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

After a good scrub

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Looks like you got a lot of great parts between the two of them. A complete parts truck would be way better than looking at single parts to buy. Wish I could have done this. Great score :metal:
If you buy anymore I'll know where to get parts for mine ;)

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Looks good, I've got the fever too, cant beat a good parts pickup! I get some grief from friends and family with all these parts pickups I bring home getting ready for my project. I should have some extra stuff to sell or barter with when or if I ever get done.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Nice new to you parts rig! That still looks nice compared to the stuff setting down here. Turbo LS? You have the same issues I have I think. LMAO!

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Ever since the rear frame fell out of the wife's 6.0 l burb I have needed to,put that 6.0 somewhere. I haven't done a efi standalone swap before so I thought it would be a good fun learning project . Check out sloppy mechanics on you tube. These guys are building 10 sec cars on junkyard parts and kraft dinner budgets. My kind of people for sure. Can you imagine running 10's in a ford fairmont with no cage and no c clip eliminators . Once would be enuf I think . Lol.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

sounds fun

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

I wonder if these are the guys that did the C4 Vette with a cage? I'm scared to look and get the wheels turning. :uhmk:

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

I don't think so. They have a few fast ford fairmonts, a really fast lx mustang that made 1000 on the dyno and runs in the 8's if I recall. My fav is when they got a rental ford car. Force fed it ungodly amounts of nos made 400 ish rwhp on the dyno then flogged it around town for the wknd . Took out the plumbing and gave it back. Lol. Sure sounds like fun to me !

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

The guys who did the vetted kart was roadkill on motortrend.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

So I have been working on this 85 for a few weeks now . Ready for saftey . Gets exh this week I hope . Then it can be on the road and we can go from there to,see how involved I want to get in body and paint .

When I got it

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Now . Not to sure what to do abt paint . Was thinking abt semi gloss black but it's been done to death . Then I thot army green would be cool but maby silly with chrome bumpers , mirrors and such ???

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Had a fair bit of bondo,in the right rear where it had been hit . I'm happier to see dents tho,than I was wavy cracked bondo and wonder what was in there

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

The rear corner. Good from far, far from good .

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Looking good. I like it :metal:

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Looks awesome! What size lift did you put on? I kinda like the dark blue and grey on the bottom. Or you could leave it as is! The bed looks like the old RMS Olympic dazzle camoflauge from World War 1 :lol:
http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/a...psx8kevteu.jpg

Also gotta add this...
"Instead, from 1916 to 1917, Olympic was chartered by the Canadian Government to transport troops from Halifax, Nova Scotia to Britain. In 1917 she gained 6-inch guns and was painted with a "dazzle" camouflage scheme to make it more difficult for observers to estimate her speed and heading. Her dazzle colours were brown, dark blue, light blue, and white."

The colors match! I think you could sell this to a naval historian as a special edition!

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Nice work on the truck! Have you looked at hot rod flatz? They have a lot of semi flat colors to choose from.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

No I hadn't heard of them before . I will check out to nite. I was thinking the semi gloss blk just cuz it was easy . I would really like army green tho but the chrome on the truck is too nice to paint over or black out. I think the truck will get nice paint someday so I'm kinda fond of the chrome.

I did switch out the doors to nite tho. The passenger side power window was giving me grief and the drivers weren't much better so on went the nice set of roll up doors that came with the truck. Definitely not gm doors as he said . Man they fit crappy. And that's just me trying to mind my words for here ! Lots of tugging and tweaking and yelling to nite . One more to go for tomorrow nite . Can't wate.... Lol..... .

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Hey I just noticed that my truck made it into one of those truck of the month contests . I came in second to moseus burb. Thanks to everyone that voted for me . That big orange burb is sweet .

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Yes sir. How's boat season going up there? I helped my Dad put hos inboard pontoon back together a couple weeks ago. He got everything done and fired t up the other day but it won't pump water from the lower unit. He just got a reman lower unit too. He was taking it to Branson to go fishing this Saturday but said the heck with it and just rented a boat down there for the week. Also, a few weeks ago my brother took out his new boat and about sank it at the boat ramp. He was trying to get the boat on the trailer and apparently the transom was rotten and the engine broke the back of the transom off and the boat started taking on water. He got it out but isn't sure what he's going to do with it yet. :smoke:

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Hey everyone . I haven't posted in forever . I hope everyone is well. My truck uses a 1 st gen ram steering box. It's pooped. Any recommendations for a new box ? Just go to napa get a reman ? I need to swap in a new box and I would like to switch to a crossover Y steering design. The old girls is a bit of a handful sometimes. My son wanted to take it to prom and I decided to drop it off at a friends house close so he didn't need to drive it to far. That's not how it should be..... If you can't drive it easily what's the point .

I know our trucks are very similar. Mine just has a reman 1st gen 2wd steering box and the crossover steering. I can drive it with one finger at 70 mph.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Hey Luther . How's things.? How's the truck working ? You get the d max chevelle on the Rd ? Thanks for the reply abt the steering box. The way the leaf springs are on my truck I can't do a true crossover . Thinking I will try a y set up . In the long run I think I would have been better to do the swap your way just for driveability and handling .

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

A Y should still work alright. Ford trucks run it like that.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

So I need some input from whoever wants to chime in . I'm thinking of going thru a few updates on the truck this winter. When I built it I kinda had the it's new power , but kinda looks period correct theme in mind. Now I'm spoiled by all the new truck around me want this old girl to drive , steer , stop better . It's ok but it's still not something I would let the wife drive. Thinking chassis swap , Maby 80 s gm? Maby 90s dodge ? Maby 2 Nd gen dodge ? Then I think for the money a different chassis would cost and the work involved I could take that money and put it into 4 link parts n stuff Maby coil overs ? Maby air ride ? I'm behind on here as to what everybody is up to . Anybody want to point me to any builds that are worth a read let me know .

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

IMO older bodies on newer frames just don't look right. Also, with as much stuff as you want to change, you might as well build another truck. Keep this one so you can enjoy it while you build your fluffy truck. :lol:

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Fluffy truck ???? That's not very nice . Lol... I have been thinking abt it . I think I'm going to switch it to crossover type or actually y style steering. Get a new steering box as well then see where I end up in the handilng dept. I also have been following another guy on here , 57 olds I think , he has done a great job with his pedal set up , brake booster etc. I think I will try to get the same parts he has done. I thot it would be fun to put a bigger chassis under the truck so Maby I could tow my flat bed around with it many a boat or two. The reality is I have two dodge duallys a now so I have no need to do that . If I can just get it driving nice and update a few things that is likely a better decision .

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

"Fluffy truck" :haha:
I would keep the truck as it is and just modify/upgrade the steering, suspension and brakes to make it safe and enjoyable to drive.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Since you already have latter model steering and brakes, what are you planning to upgrade to that is better than what you have?
I have a 1984 Dana 60 and 14 bolt with hydro boost and push pull steering and mine is fine at speed and will put you through the windshield in a panic stop, so I think you need to adress what you have and find the problem.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

You are correct. The more I think abt it the more I'm quite happy with how everything sits on the original frame body wise. I think the route of my problem is that the 56 front springs are held at the rear. With shackle at front . Every other push pull steering truck is mounted at front of spring and shackle at rear. I think my push pull and the fact that the leaf is mounted at the back is my trouble . Just wondering if I should update to newer leaf springs and change mounts around or should I try crossover steering ?

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

If it were me I would upgrade to newer springs and rear mounted shackles, designed for the weight of the motor in the truck.
And add a sway bar even if that required keeping the push pull steering.
Potentially it could ride better corner better and steer better.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

While crossover steering is the way to go, I think your steering/handling problems come from the steering box and possible caster angle.

RedHead steering gear is the only way to go for a first gen Dodge box (any steering gear really).

What is you caster set at? You are using the Dodge D60 front, right? If so, I am willing to bet your caster angle is in the 1° to 2° range. Get it up to at least 4° if not 6° to 8°.

Another important thing is to use Dana/Spicer parts only in the kingpins - On my current 1st gen Dodge, I rebuilt the kingpins with NAPA cones and springs - truck drove terrible. Finally bought OEM parts and it was much better.

Turns out the NAPA cones were way softer so they were grabbing and galling and wouldn't let the wheels "self steer".

As for the leaf spring setup, my '66 F250 is pined in the back, shackle (actually slipper) int he front. I have been known to regularly cruise at 90 to 100 MPH. Drives great.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

The OBS Fords (88-97) use the front shackle in the front and they drive ok. But it is a lot better when you put the shackle in the rear and even better when you put a longer leaf spring up front. Granted you won't get the coil spring ride quality of a 05 up, bu it is a big improvement.

If you go cross over, make sure to put a panhard or track bar on the front axle.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Ya I'd like to change front springs. I keep coming to the realization that if I buy new front springs, get some sort of perches and shackle mount money wise I'm close to buying a bunch of 4 link parts . Was thinking abt arms like this

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

You're going down a rabbit hole..... :lol:

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Drum roll.... Decisions have been made . Lol. I'm going to mount the front springs the way gm mounts them on square body trucks . I think this will make my steering much happier . I may still switch to a y style steering set up. Can't go full crossover not enuf room . Also want to copy the electric wipers and the pedal set up that 57 olds used on his build . It needs injectors as well. Determined to make this thing daily drive able next summer . Oh ya needs a rad , and a better seat . Lol. Never stops does it .

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

I know a guy who can get you some injectors......

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

When your switching springs around, make sure you get your caster angle up to par - $10 says that's what's fighting you...

Is "Y" steering worth it over your current push pull setup? I have never been impressed with stiff axle vehicles that use the "Y" steering and have always seen a big improvement when switched to true crossover...

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

I've built many OBS Fords and they are the Y style and drive pretty nice. I haven't put any on a straight axle chevy though. I always just put cross over on them if I made the swap. I'm half tempted to put cross over on my 72 because the rear air ride affects the push pull steering system.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

Yeah there is no denying that crossover is second to none (well, maybe rack and pinion).

As for the OBS Fords, it was just the twin i-beams that used the "inverted Y" steering which was a must as a solid tie rod would make the toe in change as the suspension moved. The F350's and F250's with Dana 60's were all true crossover and drove perfect.

Dodge on the other hand, used the "inverted Y" on the earlier second generations with a stiff axle - IMHO, this is one of the main reasons they have such a bad rap for death wobble and just terrible driving in general. Think about it - with the "Y" steering linkage, as the suspension moves up and down, the angle of the "Y" changes, thus changing the distance from end-to-end (i.e. your toe in). I have changed a couple second gens over to true cross over that had the "death wobble" and whatever else Dodges are know for and all the steering problems went away.

Sorry to beat the topic to death, but I have an extreme case of OCD when it comes to how a vehicle drives and handles. If you want it to drive perfect, you need about 5 things, in order of importance:

1) 5° minimum caster - if you have to cut your "C's" off and re-weld them, so be it. If you do, set it to 8°.

2) Toe in - get a tow in gauge - a rack only sets static toe in - when you are driving, the toe in gets wider. With a toe in gauge, you can get it set so the wheels are truly parallel when moving even if you have a little play in your TRE or ball joints/kinpins

3)If you have a front steering stabilizer, take it off and throw it in the dump. They can cover some problems, but that is all they do - cover a problem. Fix what needs fixing.

4) Camber - since you have a first gen Dodge Dana 60, there is a good chance that one knuckle is welded on wrong and your camber is slightly off. Haven't found one angle to be preferred, as long as it has some and both sides are identical.

5) Tight bushings - if you have crossover, the track bar needs to be tight. With push pull, the non shackle end spring bushings need to be tight.


This is all simply what I have learned over my few short years of wrenching. I have been guilty of, and have watched others throw hundreds of dollars of new parts at a front axle trying to make a vehicle drive "right" thinking that a smidgen of play here might be causing me some trouble, or maybe stiff u-joint, or a loose steering box, etc.

If you do the five things I listed, your truck will drive great, even if it does have a little play in the TRE's or steering box.

Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.
 

I read this earlier and lots of good info. Let me be clear when I say y steering what I mean is the bar from the steering box would come down and tie into the cross bar between the front wheels. They make a long tie rod end that was used on some gm trucks to mount stabilizer. I think I would mod my cross bad to accept one of those then use that hole for the link from the pass side to steering box. You are correct abt small things adding up to be big things. I have a 4 deg caster shim between the axle and springs. The steering shows no interest in trying to return to straight after a turn. Maby I should add another 4 deg. I will also admit the front alignment is done by tape measure in the shop. That is definitely not helping . I guess I should be taking a good look at the front end before I re invent things. Oh and just to be clear . I can't do a true crossover . The bar from box won't fit the way the front springs and frame go on these old trucks .