smog laws are for one thing only!! Removal!!
 

I went into a shop today to ask about the Utah smog laws and he told me the pickup has to have the exact engine and smog specs as it was when it was first purchased. I asked him about putting in my 4.3 liter engine and he scoffed and said no. Sure it owuld pass with flying colors on the actual test, but the specs are not correct. This leads me to believe that they are forcing us to remove our trucks from the roads.

What type of motor do you have in there originally???

Come to Mississippi, you can even burn your tires here, but only one at a time!:D

I thought cars and trucks built before 1974 were exempt. In CA at least.

Here in TX I belive that any car that is older than 25yrs is excluded from the Emmisions test.

he ain't talking about cali. He moved. right :confused:

In CA, all 1976 and older vehicles are exempt from biennial and change of ownership testing, not from emissions controls. It is a Federal crime to tamper with, or remove emissions equipment....but, you say, if they don't test 'em, who's to know, right?
Wrong.....just recently, CHP and BAR had roadside test stations set up (La Habra last time I heard). The CHP, or BAR representative can inspect your car, truck etc and if they feel like it, they can send you to a referee or smog test station for testing and compliance review.
Gotta love this damn State!!!

They are starting to do smog testing in Travis and Williamson Countys (Austin Area) which sucks I want to know if my 69 with a 454 is legal and if it will pass with just mufflers no cats no carbon whatnots nothing just headers pipe mufflers pipe. Cuz if it wont I need to transfer the ownership out of Travis County

Even though many states do it differantly, federal law says cars from 64 to present must pass certian smog standards, and any one of them can be required to pass said test at any given time.
Then, they turn it over to the individual states and they screw it all up.
By federal guidlines, you can place that 4.3 engine in your truck...legally, however, for all testing purposes your truck will be a 9-what ever vehicls. (the year of the 4.3) and you'll have to meet or exceed all the smog specs.
To do this swap, and not tick off the smog cops, you'll need to take the entire fuel system, computer, all sensors, service engine soon light, and the single cat too (legally you can not run 2 cats on any 4.3 since they never came like that) Your vehicle would have to go get inspected, to ensure that everything is there and in proper working condition. (fuel evap stuff and a visual on all sensors and check engine light...ect) Then you can go get it inspected.
Another thing you'll end up needing almost defatly is the over drive tranny with lock up converter. This was used to help achieve the lower emissions at cruise speed, which the IM240 smog test duplicates.
Another inacuracy that you were told there, was your engine has to be original.
Bull.
You can install newer engines, but not older.
you can install light duty (car) engines in med duty (light trucks)...but NOT visa versa.
You can install any engine that was an original option and certified for that make/model/configuration....so you can ditch the 250 inline and install the 402 engine...as long as you take all smog related items and install them also.
You can install performance parts. There's not so many problems with that on old stuff like a 72...but later models this is a real PITA. On our stuff, as long as your components are installed, and you pass the sniffer, then you are OK. The problem is things that you see as not important. (enclosed air filter...heat riser...vac lines to the charcol canister) will all get you busted, they are all smog controll items.

Go back and ask 'ole boy where you can get info on this stuff...the state should provide the info you need. If he tells you that you are wasting your time and repeats what he told you already, tell him to show you that in his inspection guide.
A real headache will be getting it smogged every year or what ever your county/state requires. The tech will pop the hood and say WTF? and you'll have to tell him every time and provide proof and blah blah blah.
Real PITA.

Tim beat me to it while I was typing out that friggen book.

Striker... Your 454 will not be legal, however, if you dress it up like a 396, install the closed air filter, heat riser, PCV valve...ect, (smog pump???) and if it passes the sniffer, then you'll be OK, but get ready for jumpin through hoops. You are not required to have cats, and you ARE able to have headers...even full length, however, you'll need the stupid pipe (stove pipe) that goes up to the air filter. (you can get a stove pipe set up for headers at jegs)
You guys have the IM240 which is a real ***** to fool. If your 454 is hopped up, then you'll have problems. It'll also be hard for you to do the out of county inspection too, your smog county inspection stickers are a different color than your non smog inspection stickers. If a cop sees your truck in front of your house....or at your place of buisness...or all the time in traffic, then you will be found in violation.
The best thing you can do....anyone facing smog tests...is to get a copy of your local smog standards. If you can't locate anything, then check with SEMA, they are hard at work protecting us, and fighting for the hot rodders. You'd be amazed at the stuff that would be passed if it wasn't for SEMA.

Re: Travis and Williamson Counties, in Texas: Should apply to 1980 or 81 models and newer (I don't know how they are calculating the model year)

http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/air/ms/vim.html#im1

I know I just got my 72' inspected and it has no cats and no mufflers on it, just straight pipes right out the back and it passed. And it was only $12.50 for a safety test ONLY. no other tests were performed. That is in Harris County Houston TX

On Texas's safety inspection, they are SUPPOSED to do a visual on smog equipment. The aformentioned air cleaner and stuff is supposed to be present. But, some inspectors get lazy and don't even pop the hood.

Yeah they didnt pop the hood so I guess thats why it seems they dont check that stuff. I have also been told buy some inspectors that 25 years and older do not have to pass thats why I said what I said eailer in this thread. I will do more research on this and let you know. And not to sound like I am calling you out but how do you know this stuff?

There are only 4 counties in Utah that test for emmissions, Salt Lake, Utah, Weber and Davis, the four most densly populated Wasatch Front counties. I may have heard Washington County, in Southern Utah is testing now and Summit County, where I live, is considering it. I'm sure that the Utaliban will soon decree that we all must be tested, they will hate to miss out on the money they could charge for it. I know many people who simply get an address in a non-testing county and register their vehicles there. there are a few hoops to jump through, like having a utility bill or something. Tell ya what-come pay my power bill for a couple months and I'll let you use my address LOL.

Just be glad that, while we all still have to pass safety inspection (another tip-make friends fast with someone who does S/I, then they won't even really look at things) at least we don't have to display the little insp. sticker on our windshields. Not having one was the first thing the cops used to look for. We also used to have to have a GVW sticker on our trucks, really ugly-that said U-6000 for a 1/2 ton or U-9000 for a 3/4 ton and so on. That was the second thing the cops would pull us over for.

Oh Yeah-one more thing-welcome to Utah! It's really not such a bad place once you get out of the city. I say that because if your being I/M ed, you live in the city.

I live in Ogden, Utah and I'm getting ready(hopefully by summer) to have my truck registered and on the road.

Is there any site I can check out whats required by Utah emissions?

I guy my dad works with said he got a P.O. box in brigham(I think it was brigham) and they didn't do emissions. Not sure how much a p.o. box up there costs but I might have to check into it.

cats were not stock till 1975 or 76.

here in new mexico we only have one county where you have ot pass emissions and they are spreading it out so if you live outside the county but go in to albuquerque more than 60 times a year you have to pass emissions. but if the car was made before 1975 you are exempt because cats and egr where not stock. i think when my s10s registration expires in october i will be switching to the 70 gmc to get around the emissions bs. now if i can just get the combustion temp high enough to make my NOX emissions skyrocket :hm:

I lived at Ft Hood for 7 years, and we were threatened with the IM240 test...I looked into it and learned it.
As far as the Tx safety...I drove junk and had to thrash to make it pass...so i learned the safety inspection....then i simply found ways around it.


As far as the rest of it...the non tx specific stuff... I considered movin to cali, (still think about it) and I like being on top of things, and knowing what I can and can't get away with. I spent a lot of time readin.
you'd probably crap if you herard what the EPA wants to do for OBD3...and what the govenment is doin to HELP them....GPS installed on your car ids part of the plan.

We don't have any inspections here that I'm aware of but I can't help but wonder why we as Americans put up with this bulls**t. Our government is getting way out of control, and it's to bad the average citizen doesn't give a damn either. The 2 biggest that we as Americans need to do away with are EPA and OSHA. Do they ask us as voters if we want any of there :bs: regulations, I think not, I think it's really sad what this country has turned into, but then it will not be long and it will be all over, I'm sure some of you will understand what I mean by that.

So, why is it that my 80 3/4 ton does not have cats on it? It had the factory exhaust setup on it (I asked my grandfather if he ever changed it, which he hadn't) when I bought it....

I do have the HD GVW 3/4 ton, is that what made the difference?

Hey Forever,

It currently has a 69 olds rocket 350 in it....I love it but it costs too much in gas

Rus, if you go over to the 73 - 87 page, there is a thread about 2 years old...I used to have it bookmarked, it explains all that as far as cats on trucks. It was interesting...it went something like under X GVW they needed cats after x year....but the others didn't...it ended up the OEMs were using cats and other controll items for the F.I., so the feds said what the h@ll, and made it all required.
Then in 97 IIRR, (to presesnt) light duty trucks were required to meet passenger car standards.

The Govn`t needs to leave older vehicles alone.Natural factors regulate their use:age,economy,the desire to keep the nice ones nice.Besides, with newer vehicles,they have O/D,higher?safety standards,and better fuel economy.Now people drive faster(O/D),mash-up vehicles worse(anyone else notice?),and drive farther to work,etc.(gas mileage).The net results?The roads are no safer,no less people are dieing,insurance costs are higher,and people are using no less fuel.Oh yeah,and the country side is getting gobbled up by housing developements.Now we have a new"Rural Suburbs".Rantin`wasn`t I.

They are always gonna be after the older vehicles as all the research says that 60% of the vehicle emissions are created by 10% of the vehicles (the old ones). EVERY year some Nazi smog nut in CA tries to repeal the testing exemption, and every year the car hobbyists lobby against it. Jay Leno actually personally called the Legislator last year. The bill was defeated in Sacramento.

In California, at least (not sure about other States, but I would assume it is the same) if a vehicle was not issued with CATS from the factory, you are not required to install them when you do a newer engine transplant. IT is a safety issue with the heat generated by the CATS and the lack of shielding and fire proofing in the older vehicles. ALL other emissions are required. IT does get a bit confusing when swapping in an OBDII engine as the PCM reads the post CAT O2 sensors, and it is illegal to over-ride them. Most that I have heard of have installed them, but editted the PCM to ignore them. IT all comes down to how fussy the Referee is that day and whether or not he got some 'nookie' the night before.....

Move to south carolina, we abolished inspections in '96. You can get a ticket for something "missing" on your vehicle if a cop see's it, like missing cats, but I've never known anyone to acutally get one of these "tickets." So, just punch em out. I love it here.

In Texas you could get your car/truck registered as an antique vehicle and that would (used to?) exempt state inspections but it limits how/when you can use the vehicle. There is also a "classic" registraton but I'm not sure if it allows any exemptions.

striker

You should be fine I live in Dallas County, tough laws here, I have a 69 all they do is safety test. In Texas any truck 25 years are older they only do the safety inspection on. Legally you have to meet the test of the year of the motor but I have yet to see a station that checks the cast numbers on the block. If you have an 80 or newer motor an A$$ could give you a hard time. I did one time run into a guy that would not pass me because I had an open air breather. I just went down the road to the next station and they past me. The last 2 times the have not even opened the hood.

Don't laugh to hard 67ChevyRedneck, from what I have read in the weekly wiper here "Big Brother" has been sniffing to air lately and don"t like what he's been smelling.

we have IM240 test here & there is a strong support to do away with it , hopefully it happens. Until this year, all vehicles under 1 ton 1971 & newer were required to pass smog test, they recently changed it to a rolling 26 year deal thankfully. My 75 c-15 passed smog without anyproblems with headers & open air cleaner, they originally tried to flunk me for no cats. I argued & said it never had cats...finally after 10 minutes the manager of the station came out & said I was right..all I need is a clean test & PCV...wich I have. John

Tim, where did you get the info of dropping the cat on a new engine into old vehicle?
This goes against every thing I have read in the last 15 years on smog laws, and alot of the stuff read came out of socal.
Heat shields are easier to install, and instal properly, than the rest of the package.
This al depends on who's research you are looking at.
Some interesting FACTS...
With the exception of Southern Cali, just about al the citys with major smog problems are industrial citys. huston is quickly catching up with Cali as far as polution levels.
The major source of automotive polution comes from the vehicles between 8 years old and 20 years old. All the 200,000 mile old cars running with the check engine light on...we refer to them as work cars, or beaters.
No state can require you to update your vehicle onless you are updating it out of desire.
Meaning, the state can not tell all of us to install cats...but, if we install a newer vehicle, we must maintian the certification on the new engione, which includes ALL the smog equipment.
California has come up with a way to decrease the use of older vehicles, and they are now putting it in effect, the parts to maintain older vehicles will be harder and harder to find. I'm not sure HOW they went about it, but they are cutting off the supply of old auto parts, as to force you to junk your old car.
Since about 90 or so, So Cal has been permitting the oil companies to crush cars for smog credits.
Chevron started it all when they were found in violation of refinery emission. They asked the state if they could purchase old "gross poluters' and crush them, therefor removing them from the road perminantly, and after crushing x number of cars, could defer the correction of there own refinery smog issues. The state loved it and that started the first real crusher program in the U.S. They were buying cars for about 700 bucks, (775 IIRC) and the state required stipulations was that it had to be a running, driving licensed car in order to count towards smog credits. I'll give Chevron a little credit here, they would offer all the cars up for sale for the same price they were purchased for, this way, no true collector cars would fall through the cracks. The part that really got me ticked on this, car Craft...or maybe Hot Rod...purchased a yellow 68 camaro powered by a 250 inline and an automatic tranny. They bought it, gassed it up, and went straight to a smog station, where the car not only passed, but was cleaner than a mid 70's car was required to be.
Gross Poluter?
I personally stopped buying Chevron fuel when I read this. Then, later...in 1999, I wrote a letter to David Frieburger, editor of car craft becouse they always used the chevron fuel in there dyno sessions. He personally responded informing me that all the oil companies in xo cal were doing this now, and they can't boycott all gasoline providers. (dave is the closest thing to an idol to me..and I printed and saved that e-mail...still have it in my desk)
i'm rambling...
again.

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage....s-Jan_1994.htm

Since CATs are considered Chassis equipment, not engine equipment, if the host chassis did not have them, then they are not required. I will call BAR in the morning to confirm, but I am almost completely certain that is correct.....

Tim

California lost its 30 year exemption rule at the start of this year. Now only vehicles 75 and older are exempt. This legislation passed so easily that the smog nuts now want to require all vehicles to be retrofitted with modern emissions equipment.

California hates vintage cars and trucks. Most parking lots are made for small newer compacts and the stop lights are set for newer brake systems, seems like I have to lock 'em up sometimes to stop in time. Where I live, if you leave a classic parked on the street the policia will ticket it as an abandoned vehicle and have it towed away. This happened to me, I had my '68 chevelle and '69 c-10 (which are both fugly) parked in front of my house ( I was on vacation from work) and the policia ticketed them as abandoned vehicles and said that if they didn't show a change in mileage when they came back that they would be towed. Good thing I was home. So instead of letting them sit and not pollute, I have to make sure I drive them around the block every other day or so.

Some Cali legislators want to do away with pick-a-part type junkyards and places that sell repro parts for older cars. Some older parts and older emissions equipment are now nearly impossible to find.

There is also talk on charging people for how many miles they drive per year. Of course this can't be done with older vehicles so maybe that's why they want to retrofit older vehicles. All in all its big brother wanting to get into our lives.

Our Guv (Ahnold) has implemented a new crusher program that pays you (or any overzealous environmentalist) $1000 for crushing a running pre-1989 vehicle and he wants to give $800 to people who retrofit their older vehicles. There was even an article in some e-rag that showed that environmentalists are scoping e-bay and car ads looking for older cars to crush for cash.

Guess it's time to toss the 250 L-6 for that LT-1 or LS-1.
Or it's time to drop my '69 truck body on a '05 chassis.
Just my $0.02.
Dano

Tim, did you make the call?

it seems many people are forgetting a well tuned car will run damn near the same with or without cats pollution wise. cats are for people who dont know what maintenance is the cat cleans up there dirty @ss polluting engine. any well tuned car will pass just fine. big business puts out more emissions than any amount of cars you could ever get in the same area.

I tried, but was put on hold for a long time and I was on my cell. I will try again tomorrow.
Tim

if you will read our friendly constitution you'll see the fed. gov. has been WAY out of control for decades!
the constitution spells out specific things government can do.anything not specifically written is forbidden by US. the people!you know; the ones that wrote the damned thing in the first place.
we need to put OUR government as a whole in prison for violating the constitution & put some honest, principled folks in there!

amen!but wait;you.me.thats two! anyone else?
i can speak for at least a dozen that are fed up & would take action if they felt they weren't alone.
it's up to us!if we expect it to change, we have to change it!
it got this way because WE let it!

can we afford to wait?
will you let our once great country degrade further into a socialist regime?

*sniff**sniff*

smell like politics

*listens*

sound like politics

*looks*

must be politics.


Quit while your ahead guys. Leave the politics, long live the revolution, its the adminitration fault, bill clinton left his seeds is monica, and Martha stewart is the true victim here crap out.

A good place to keep your eye on things, regardless of which State of the Union you live in. Remember, as goes California, so the rest of the Nation follows......
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?ID=61834

yeah, your right.
it's just your country, freedom, future, rights, wellbeing, family, privilages, flag we were discussing.
i forgot.you can't get involved.you have a job, family, truck, home, beer to think about.
sorry to bother you with such minutia.

You are fairly new here, so i'll tell you why there are negative comments towards posts like that.
About 3 years ago, we had a few members that started posting political stuff here in the general discussion board..it wasn't too bad, most of us kept out of them, and let the few duke it out in the political threads.
Then about 2 years ago, the crap started gettin deep. there was mud slinging, name calling, and general political BS.
So josh (board owner/operator..the HMFIC) started a whole seperate page for political BS...apropreatly names...Plitical BS.
The General discussion pages were back to normal, fun and games, off brand automotive discussions, threads on life and love and what kind of job to look for...ect.
Then the group on the political BS board couldn't keep things under controll, and Josh had to kill it. Ppl started bringing it back here, and everyone else said no way, no how. So now, as soon as a thread gets political, one of us will normally jump in and tell everyone to cool there jets before the thread gets closed. (look for the thread about the pope's death...yes, even in a pope thread) Normally, Josh or the group of ppl workiong with/for josh will close the thread in no time.
Then there will be a thread asking why the original thread was locked...ppl get banned for a day or two for trolling, more ppl start to complain....it just all snow balls into bad ca-ca.
So please, keep the political stuff to a minimum. (or nill even) Everyone will be happier, Josh's hard work will be reduced, and good threads...like the pope passing...or what is or is not legal in the world of emmisions...can continue and we can learn.
Please do not take this personally, it is a policy set before your time on here.
I'm sure you could PM some one about the political stuff, but I can't see it working too well.
Many of us will agree with some of what was said in this thread as far as big brother and over stepping boundrys...however, many ppl don't want to have anything to do with it.