If you like destruction -
 

then is thread is for you! I've been too butt hurt to post much about this yet, but a couple of weekends ago I hurt the motor (.060" over 454 bbc) in my '69 during a little test drive after installing a new AGR power steering pump and steering box. I hit an empty side street, hammered down on it in 2nd gear and spun it up to about 6500 rpm. Right when I let off for the stop sign coming up, I heard a metallic 'ping' (the expensive sounding one!) and immediately clutched it. The engine died as I clutched it and I coasted to a stop in a nearby parking lot. Long story short, I walked home, grabbed my daily driver and my trailer and towed it home. When I got it into my shop, I could see oil and a little coolant dripping out of the tailpipes - not good. No visible signs of anything exiting the block and no oil spray underneath. I left it sitting in the shop for a couple weeks too disgusted to mess with it. I finally got to pulling the spark plugs and found #1 hammered all to hell, coolant poured out of #4, 6 & 7, and #8 was soaked in clean oil. Needless to say the thing is toast, I'm hoping I can save some of it, since I had quite a bit of cash tied up in the valvetrain & heads (custom hyd roller, Crower rockers & springs, etc).

The thing only had about 1200 miles on it. The shortblock was machined and built by a local rebuilder, and after I had the work done I spoke to a few guys around town that said this guy doesn't have a great reputation for building hi-perf motors. An expensive lesson, but those are the ones you learn from or so my dad always told me when I was a kid.:lol: It had a couple annoying leaks right from the get go, and seemed to run hot more often that not, despite dual Derale electric fans and a big 2 row aluminum radiator. Just goes to show that if something doesn't seem right, chances are there is trouble ahead. I was easy on it for the first 500 miles, but drove the hell out of it after that. I'll be pulling it all out this weekend to disassemble it, hopefully I can do it without beating the heck out of the engine bay that I worked my a$$ off to get to my liking. I already have another bullet in the works, and no, it's not an LS engine.

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Ho-lee-crap... I'm sorry to hear. Beautiful truck.

With that much metal in the oil... something was failing for quite awhile before the ping heard round the world.

Gary

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Looks like it dropped a valve. Have you pulled the valve covers? I dont think that is a short block problem.
Jimmy

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I'll get some more pics when I get it all apart. Looking at the plug, it does look like a valve hit the plug sideways, as there is a pretty defined edge gouged into the plug. On the bright side, it will be fun for all of us to play detective after the 'evidence' is posted up! I'm sure we can get a good idea of what ate what after the weekend.

I had changed the oil at 500 miles (Lucas break in oil) and again at 1000 (mobil 0w-40) just for good measure without any 'glitter'. No telling what may have happened in the 200 miles since.

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Sorry to hear about that. In to see the evidence though.

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Man, Adam, that's a damn shame right there. You cannot help but second guess the guy who machined and built it or the parts used in it. But sometimes you can do everything right and still something goes wrong. Better to find out close to home rather than out on power tour or something like that.

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I vote short block ripped itself apart from the rpm due to poor balancing. I wouldn't have much hope for saving anything other than the valvetrain. Hopefully the connecting rods stayed connected aren't weren't able to tag the camshaft. That engine bay looks great and its a shame to yank that engine. Please take pictures and keep us updated. Im curious as to what failed and we can probably figure out the cause.


On a side note my very first experience with an engine builder was terrible. I was 15yrs old and dumped every dollar I made into a bottom end that lasted 500 miles before it turned 2 connecting rods blue, spun bearings and broke a main cap from being so out of balance. I feel your pain however the place I ended up going to for the next one was the place I ended up working at and learning a huge chunk of what I know. I ended up running the speed shop there as well as being a general mechanic and learning machine processes and the proper way to do things. I might have pissed away 1000 bucks on the first short block but that was a damn cheap education for the knowledge I ended up with in the end.

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Boy I felt that also, that is one heck of a nice truck.

This next one maybe you will have some more of your own hands in it. I know what I did when I make a mistake and usually find my errors.

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I hope you can at least salvage a reasonable number of parts.

I also hope your plans are bigger, at least a 502... a 540 would be nice and should fit the same as what you have now.

Re: If you like destruction -
 

On a side note my very first experience with an engine builder was terrible. I was 15yrs old and dumped every dollar I made into a bottom end that lasted 500 miles before it turned 2 connecting rods blue, spun bearings and broke a main cap from being so out of balance. I feel your pain however the place I ended up going to for the next one was the place I ended up working at and learning a huge chunk of what I know. I ended up running the speed shop there as well as being a general mechanic and learning machine processes and the proper way to do things. I might have pissed away 1000 bucks on the first short block but that was a damn cheap education for the knowledge I ended up with in the end.[/QUOTE]

Damn Adam that's terrible. On the bright side, your truck is wicked cool looking! Take your time on the next engine and it will be perfect.

Cableguy, your story brings back painful memories from my first engine 30 years ago when I was 17. Big shop, fast talking bums. Took every cent I had. Might have got 600 mi. out of it. Still pissed. Next shop was a local Bonneville engine guy who worked out of his garage (with a small machine shop in it) around the corner from my folks house. Cub Barnett. He taught me patience. That engine is still running today. Painful lessons that some of us have to learn the hard way.

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In for the carnage!

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...so would a 572...


...as would a 624....

;)

Very nice truck, btw..

K

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Tall decks don't fit quite the same as short decks. Not saying they can't fit, just that they're a little taller and a little wider, and will require intake manifold spacers and some exhaust work. Not a huge problem given the likely cost.

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You guys are obviously "smelling what I'm steppin' in", slotard - you are right in line with me. I put down the deposit on my next engine yesterday, and I will be staying with a short deck block, specifically a Dart Big M. It will be a 4.6" bore and 4.0" stroke motor (get out those calculators and figure the inches!) with a 6.535" rod and lightweight forged crank. I always had my heart set on a 502 way back in the day when they first came out, and even more so a 540 after those became popular. But when I started building the truck it already had the 454, so I used that block as my base and here we are. If it were a mild build, I'd screw it together myself, but a man has to know his limits, so I'm leaving this one to the pro's - Foxwell Motorsports/Straub Technologies will be handling this one. Amateur hour is over! :smoke:

Most people will question why not a 4.25" or 4.375" stroke to make a 565/572/582, and that is a valid point, but I'm a fan of rpm's and a 4" stroke with 500+ inches will be give me plenty of torque and still be able rip up to over 7k in the blink of an eye. I'm basically building an engine with the same rod ratio & bore/stroke ratio as a bb 427 or even a small block 350, but with a lot more cubic inches. It will be a lot of fun, and I'll post build info and pics in another thread. But for now, I gotta get my butt out to the shop and get those wrenches spinning! I'm including another pic of that spark plug after I wiped all the metal fragments off. Man that thing is beat!

Oh yeah, got a couple more changes going on while it's in the shop; the CPP control arms in the truck now are nice, but the way the front wheel sits back in the wheelwell just bugs the hell out of me, soooo......

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That'll be a 532 right?

What crank/rods/pistons? Long rods absolutely help, there isn't much downside as long as you can fit the rings on the piston.

That should be a lot of fun, and a bigblock at 7k sure sounds nice. Your truck is reasonably light, so something with that size bore and only the stroke of a 454 ;) ought to move you well enough.

Any ideas on heads/cams?

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I had a 454 that a local machine shop did a valve job for me and within 50 miles it did that to one cylinder. It dropped a valve and beat up the spark plug before I got it shut off. It also scored the cylinder so bad I had to sleeve it. The machine shop tried to tell me it was due to a broken guide but I'm sure they had some kid doing assembly and he didn't get the keepers seated right

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Many of us started wrenching because somebody else was incompetent and cost us money at one point or another. So we feel your pain. Nice rig, can't wait to see more carnage, and of course, the improved finished product. Glad you are jumping back on the horse and getting it done right. That's the attitude!

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Wonderful looking truck. I'm going to have to agree with a few posters here that it dropped a valve and smashed it to bits in the cylinder. :(

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Yeah...trouble for sure....you definitely need to replace that spark plug......;)

Seriously tho'...tough to hear about that.
Do you have any recourse with that engine builder with that thing giving up with only 1200 miles on it?

Coley:chevy:

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Well, you have to see the humor in this... I found an intake valve IN the intake! :lol:

I've almost got it all unhooked, should be ready to pull her shortly.

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Once upon a time in my youth I built a motor from scratch. New block, new crank , new rods, new Pistons, fancy new complete heads only recycled parts were the timing cover and the oil pan. I babied the motor for 1500 miles. Started getting down on it and 500 miles later a easy burnout she stopped. Fired it up and made terrible noises, ran horrible and pumped coolant out the exhaust. Took it home and it looked like that. Found a valve had broken about an inch below the keeper. Valve fell down and windows the piston and the block. Obviously a parts issue. I lived near the big name brand head mfg so went to their store they looked at it and said yep we had s few of these. Guy went in the back and came back with one new head.... I asked what about my short block, he said that was he could do was one new head... I almost fed it to him. Went home cut the car up with a Sawzall and swore off hot rods for a full 3 months till I bought the next one......

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Well it's out, but I didn't tear into it. All the valve stems are still in the retainers, I gave it a look since I had to pull the valve covers to get enough clearance to clear the firewall recess. I peeked inside and it looks like the cam and lifters are intact. Distributor gear looked good too. When I drained the oil, close to a gallon of coolant came out first. I didn't see any metal in the oil, and no chunks of anything in the screen on my drain pan.

I found a couple other issues along the way that need to be addressed also. The 'nice' Derale fans have started cracking around the edge of the bracing that holds the fan to the shroud. I've pretty much reached the consensus that Derale stuff is JUNK. The relay I got with the fans was dead out of the box, now this. I'm a little pissed, since now I have to take the fans and shroud apart and all this stuff has been painted, just one more thing to deal with. The temp probe in the radiator was also broken too. No wonder the fans weren't turning on/off like they should've.

I'm trying to post pics, but I keep getting the 'missing security token' prompt on both my PC & phone.

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for some reason when I try to upload more than 2 pictures at a time from my phone, I get the same security token message. what are you planning on doing with the engine your pulling out?

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You need Chucky Cheese tokens. They work just fine, or you could just resize the huge pics on your phone.

As far as your engine, sorry for your loss. My engine is still down. it need heads after being rebuilt by the "the best guy in the state." Um, maybe not. #2 exhaust valve roached all the way to the rocker, rocker tip roached, all seal damaged or gone. I should have just bought new.

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I prefer hosting my pics on another site. imgur.com is an easy one.

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I feel your pain, I'm in the same boat!!! Fresh BB427, bored, Kieth Black Pistons, Trick Flow alum heads, roller cam, Air Gap intake, etc, etc. Long story short, 515 miles metallic sheen in oil and 9 pounds oil pressure at idle:devil:

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OUCH. That sounds a lot like a cam going flat but I see you have a roller. Whatever happened is due to the way it was put together to happen that quickly. If its bearings I would suspect clearances were badly off.

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I took it to a more "reputable" machine shop after we tore it down, let me back up here a minute, during tear down we noticed the main bearings were scuffed some on the top side some on the bottom side. Then took it to the machine shop to check the line bore, now we found the problem, apparently the "other" shop was having some in house personal issues and the quality of work wasn't up to standards. After a phone call to them to discuss the line bore issue it still ended up being "my" problem. In the mean time they got the block corrected just waiting on the results of the crank, still may have to put a new crank in it.

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I have been the person delivering the bad news more times than I ever wanted to. Its amazing how many shops do garbage work. It also reminds me why so many people don't trust shops or mechanics. I hate people that do sh!t work and I hate it even more when they just dismiss it as no big deal. If you take someones money in exchange for your work. Your work should be at least worth the money if not worth more. Often the places that shouldn't even be able to charge for their junk are the ones that overcharge and the guys that go above and beyond don't get compensated for everything they do. I guess it doesn't actually pay to be honest. I sleep ok at night though.

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Well, I got the heads off, and I'm actually pretty surprised. The #1 intake snapped off and holed the piston, and slaughtered the cylinder. I can't believe the shortblock held together. I was wrong, and kinda happy about it. Cam, lifters, rockers, springs, retainers, etc are all cherry. Thank goodness, since I had quite a few $ tied up in it. Crank & rods and 7 pistons may be salvageable, but its no big deal either way. The cylinder head on the drivers (odd) side is toast. Some metal from #1 made it to #7 and cracked the head.

I'm open to any ideas or experiences with a valve breaking off like this. Enjoy the pics of carnage. I'll also include the pics from my earlier post that I couldn't get the upload last night.

First up the Derale junk... And no, nothing ever hit the fans. They cracked right on the parting line in the plastic where the braces make a twist to meet the hub. Looks like a design issue.

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When I saw this, I really thought it was the piston that came unhooked and smoked the valve.

Latched on to her, (pucker!!!), and she's out.

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Now for the destruction!

#1 chamber and cylinder

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#7 chamber and cylinder. Was full of bits from #1.

Impression on the cylinder head and piston match that big chunk of valve laying in the bore.

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Shop looks like a bomb went off. I guess it kinda did...

Truck looks pretty sad with no 'motor'vation.

Me next to my fresh 'kill' with my weapon of choice - Matco 3/8" drive mini impact gun - the lil dude has been with me for over 16 years and still works like new. If he can't get it, my Ingersoll Rand 'Titanium' 1/2" drive will definitely do it.

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Ouch. Seeing things like this is never enjoyable. Far as ideas and experiences go ... that type of break is not that uncommon really. Have seen this more times than I can remember.

May have missed it somewhere - perhaps another thread. Are these stock valves?

Stock valves are two piece. The head is force welded to the stem. Right about where that gave way. Which is why I have always been a big advocate for quality one piece valves. Especially in a performance build. Relying on stock units with countless cycles on them is asking for trouble.

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The heads are Edelbrock RPM Marine oval ports - the valves are 'stock' to them. 2.25" one pc stainless intakes, 1.89" one pc Inconel exhausts.

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I see. Do those valve guides have c-clips on top? If so how does it look in the bad cylinder?

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Same failure I had in my story d**t was kind enough to replace one head when the m****y valve did that.

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Oh man. What a mess. Such a small part causing so much carnage. I'm worried your crank/bearings might be damaged from being beat up by the stresses of that event or even the metal bits. Check it for scuffing. I definitely wouldn't trust the connecting rod or pin in that cylinder. But the more you can salvage the better I guess.

As for the fan, yeah, welcome to the world of plastic junk these days. Even GM factory fans have been bitten by this. The Pontiac G8 and Chevy Caprice PPV fans have a tendency to fail like that, eventually shattering the blade and throwing bits into the radiator, poking a hole in it! People talk about it on the forums (and I can't remember if there is a TSB for it). I'll take the old fashioned bulletproof metal factory fans any day for the few HP the electric fans save. I've had too many failures like yours and burned up wiring harnesses, failed relays, etc. Factory clutch fan goes back on my builds. Then again, I don't have any high-rev applications either.

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Hey Adam, your probably not going to need that serpentine front runner system now are you!!!! LOL It sucks to have all the time and $$$$ invested in a motor and have this happen, I'm still back and forth with my BB or go Ls