Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Well, now that i fell comfortable here, i'll dispaly my project. Why am i doing this---well, because i can, it'll pI$$ some people off, and i have always wanted to tinker with other "cheaper" engines. So with that, the victim became our '85 Ram. Out came the second 360 that had let me down and a new beginning was had.

The goal for this build, brutal low and midrange torque, stay somewhat in a budget, and drive the wheels off the thing anywhere at anytime, and on 89 or cheaper octane.

Here is the truck as pictured last year, i dont plan to change anything here.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2335261441.jpg

Back last Nov '08, i approched my machinest about building a Chevy motor for my truck. We decided at that time to do a 383 because of the price and big block stuff around here isnt cheap--usually. So with that, in went a 305 while i gathered parts. It fit like a glove after i made mounts and it all bolted in---even the headers went in from the top.

Mounts and isolators---all bolt in stuff, even used existing holes in the truck.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2396212010.jpg

305 mocked up in truck, the fit is great!

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2377420430.jpg

Well, as most of my projects go, they snowball. I picked up a set of reconditioned peanut port big block heads for $40 when a guy switched to Edelbrocks. And then i thought and sought about looking for a motor to put them on. So fast foward to a couple weaks ago, i find a whole 454 from a early 70's truck, realativly cheap.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2436876930.jpg

After some research, i find out it will simply bolt in place of the small block, same mounts, same isolators, no moving anything---how easy could this be---i wondered. After the engine was disassembled (another long story initself being it was locked up), everything was taken to work and degreased with out huge steam pressure washer, and other smaller parts were dunked for a day in our huge cleaning tank. Then, it was time to see if it fit.

Putting an engine in---even an empty block and heads like i did, is an act in fustration if your doing it by yourself like i did. But i managed to get it done. It fits, i slid the stock exhaust manifolds on and its tighter, but still good. Things i took note of, headers are going to be tight, the fan is going to have to be changed to a regular fan with a short spacer, or change everything to a short waterpump setup. It all just barely fits with a long pump but i do have some interference on the fan blade tips and radiator bottom tank. I want tall valve covers, but i am going to have to notch the drivers side for brake booster clearance also.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2444265401.jpg

So this is where i am at now, im a little out of money at the moment, if i can unload the 383 stuff, i can continue on a bit.

I also at this point failed to mention, that the trans is a New Process 833 overdrive--3 speed with fourth being overdrive--found mostly in chrysler products, but some GM trucks from the early 80's have them too which is where mine came from. It has ratios very close to a 700r4, which are not really ideal, but a big block should have plenty of torque to pull through the wide spreads. I have a TH350 i could rebuild if i need too and also have the trans mount setup to run a regular style non overdrive 833 four speed--which is a chrysler trans, and i have an adapter plate to use on the GM bellhousing. So i have plenty of choices in the transmission department.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Interesting Build. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

any chance you can throw in some Ford stuff?

if you decide to go with the TH350 I may be interested in the NP a833. it would be perfect behind my 472 caddy.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

A little sarcasm perhaps, LOL. Probably no Ford stuff, i have a stock 1920 model T pickup in the garage, thats enough Ford technology for me.

As far as the trans, the TH350 is a back up, i dont plan on selling the 833, its nice having it all just bolt together.

A 472 Caddy? Any pics? That sounds cool. I thought about that swap too, but things like that are even harder to find around here than a BB Chevy for decent prices.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

there's a few guys here with big caddy's in their trucks. LonghornMan is the most known and he has a web page on how to do it. I got my 68 472 for free and if I hadn't bought the boat I would have got another from a salvage yard for $150. some guys say they can get up to 22 MPG with the swap.
I am putting one in my 67 stepper project and may even put one in my work truck. I would like to go overdrive but my 700R4 is a little questionable as to it's ability to handle over 5oo ftlbs of torque. besides I do my builds the same way guys did back in the 50's, mix and match with used parts from whatever I can find while fabricating it all together. you should look at my 68 work truck. it's chock full of different stuff.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Where can i view your truck at?

Up to 22MPG!? is this just due to the massive torque? This is the premiss of my build, big torque, whatever HP it makes secondary, and hope for some decent milage with the OD trans. If i could get it to do 13-15 around town and 18-19 or so on the highway, i would smile from ear to ear.

I had concerns that the big engine was going to suck gas big time---to the point i was thinking i may forget the 496 crank and just keep it a 454. Now i am on the fence again. Decisions, decisions---appearently you can get mileage out of a big motor according to what your saying.

So from what little searches i did so far, it seems these guys are running stock intakes also. At first i was dead set on a performer RPM, but the more i have put thought into the entire combo, i think a regular performer would suit me better as its suited for idle to 5000 where the rpm is 1500 to 6000. I dont plan to turn this thing much past 5000 at all. I want all the torque i can possibly make down low. Most driving is done idle to 3500.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

subscribed this is an awesome build

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

cool build, will the weight of the 454 require new front springs?

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Thanks guys.

No new front springs needed here, Dodge didnt seem to get into all that stuff like GM did. My current springs were torched to lower it about 2" sometime in its life, i have some 2" drop spindles and i need to get new springs to make it right.

Be patient, unfortunatly this is going to be a slow post due to finances and the crappy economy, which makes me afraid to spend anything---not to mention i never know whats going to happen at work, but i should be alright there.

I have some tall valve covers coming--i fully expect to have to notch the drivers side for booster clearance. I also have to see if the headers i have are going to fit too. I just need to finish up some side work, and clean the garage to get the truck back inside.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

I am not a fan of chrome--well i am if used sparingly in the right application. Do you know how hard it is to find things like budget priced valve covers that are not chrome for a chevy? Well, you could buy aluminum stuff i guess, but its usually got a hefty price tag.

And lets face it, Tall valve covers go a long way on the visual impact of making an engine look bigger---and to me, anything but a tall valve cover on a BB chevy (unless its a resto) just doesn't look right. And i like the look of how big this engine looks stuffed in the engine bay.

So, with those thoughts i searched my parts friend, Ebay. I found these particular ones, stamped steel and painted (will strip later), and new too---$29 shipped to my door. I like the look of them, with the slightly raised area like a small block has (this is a good area for logos and such)

I assumed right off the bat before i even got them that the drivers side was going to interfere with the brake booster---well, i was wrong---sort of. While i had no trouble getting them on over the stock rockers that are still on the mock up heads, and just missing the brake booster, there is going to be an issue when the gaskets go in--i only have about a 1/4" gap. So you have to figure, with a head gasket on and valve cover gasket on, its going to be real tight or just flat out hit.

So, the solution is going to be either notch the valve cover (initially when i bought them that was my first thought), go to manual brakes, or see if i can find a smaller booster---which is a available, but a little harder to find. Thinking about this more, if i can find a smaller booster, i think this is how i will go---although the manual brakes would be just as easy. More to come........

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2461026430.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2461026431.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2461026432.jpg

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

what are your plans for the engine performance wise

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Same as before with the small block--lots and gobs of torque. Small docile cam, performer intake, my freshened peanutport heads i pickup cheap. It'll be around 9 to 1 on the compression ratio, so it will be able to drive anywhere, any time. Just a good solid dependable motor--with a ton of torque.

Now---if i win the lottery, a 496 kit will be in order. But right now i just would like to drive it again---something that probably wont happen for awhile.

I am trying to base it off these guys with the Caddy swaps, But with more readily available chevy parts. Caddy parts availability and price aren't the greatest around here, and parts are more available at local stores for the chevy. I just want to be able to go anywhere and not be stuck or stranded while having to wait for that odd Caddy part to come in---i guess i am just paranoid a little, LOL.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

i dont think you can find much caddy parts anywhere without them being ordered

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

So i picked up these headers at a swapmeet a month or so back. $50, brand new, but no gaskets or hardware---pretty good deal i thought. I cant find any info on them, just you basic 1 3/4" big block street header. They look just like or similar too truck headers so i bought them--The guy seemed to think they were fo a Chevelle, maybe an early one from what i can tell, but im still thinking they are truck headers.

Today i got a chance to get the drivers side to fit. Pretty easy to do, just had to slightly notch the top of the rail about 3/4" to get it in. They basically went right in after that, no dinging tubes or whatnot--, just bolt 'em up. The holes seem a little to tight from the front of the head to the rear, so i will have to drill them to the next size when i remove them. Now, on to the pass side.......

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2466534690.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2466534701.jpg

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

looks like a sweet build, i like them old dodge trucks. :metal:

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Last night i picked up a used Edelbrock performer intake for my 454 from a local Craigslist ad. It was already beadblasted and someone did put heli-coils in the wider Holley flange---which is fine with me as they are stronger---and it looks like they actually put them in right too. Soooo for less than half of a new one, i picked it up--$75

I decided to sneak out to the garage before work and slap it on to the mock up motor, i noted that compared to the stock truck intake, it sits about 2 1/4" taller. I also noted as i had heard on the net the ports are closer to the peanut ports rather than the large ovals. I dont know for sure yet if they are indeed the same as the peanuts, but they are certianly closer to that side of things---just in case anyone was wondering.

So here are a few pics, hopefully next up is the install of the right side header, i just havent had time since my last posting to do so.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2494258170.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2494258171.jpg

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

looks good are you going to paint it chrysler orange
thats what color mine is i thin k it looks better than chevrolet orange

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

You know, i have been racking my brains out trying to figure out what to paint it. I would kinda like to keep it all color corridnated with green and tan theme going on. But, the 305 pictured in the first post was painted tan using Cummins engine paint. I have to say its not very good as i got lots of rust and stains coming back through it. So no go with that. Then, while i am still youngish--36, i am getting much lazier---meaning light colors require lots of maintence to keep clean.

So i am desperatly looking for ideas. I never painted using body colored paints, and the best i could do there is out of a spray can---because i thought about doing green like the truck. Black would be a choice too---orange is still a thought--but again a lighter high maintence color and doesnt really go.

So what would you guys do and what items would you paint what colors? (i.e. would you paint the intake natural aluminum or engine color? valve covers? etc...)

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

i would say black and green
you can use body color paint spray it just like you would a car
primer base and clear
just make sure its clean and wipe it down with prep all

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

I kinda like the simple easy stealthy semi-gloss black.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

I think gloss black with body color valve covers, and cast aluminum painted intake (so it keeps that fresh out of the box intake look) is what i am going to do. But one issue i have to solve is the clearence between the drivers cover and brake booster.

Also, untill i can sell my 383 stroker parts, i am basically on hold as far as buying some more parts. I still have plenty to do in the mean time, but as far as it running anytime soon, its just not going to happen.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Well, it took me a bit to get to this, but the right header is now installed. It was not anywhere near as easy as the left side. After starting with some similar cuts on the top of the frame rail as i had done to the left side, and it still did not drop in--Uh-Oh.

Well, i spent the better part of an hour messing with it only to discover the only way it was going to fit was to cut the top of the rail to half its width. My feeling is that even without any reinforcement it would be fine, but once i pull the mock up engine out, i will box the frame in anyhow. It still needs to be trimmed up nicer, but its in, now onto whatever part needs to be done next....

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2498245320.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2498245331.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2498245332.jpg

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

have you ever put headers on a 98-02 chevrolet f-body (camaro-transam)
i did it for the first time yesterday and it sucked

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Sweet looking build. I like them ol Dodges

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

So while i tried to over complicate the GM alternator to the Dodge truck wiring, i thought...... why do i need to used the GM alternator, i can just use the Dodge one.

With that came the mounting. I hate the ugly look of an alternator sticking high in the air--as it does on most GM stuff. So i decided to lower it some. First step, see what worked as to where i could mount it. I found a lower bolt boss in the head to be suitable for the lower mount. Problem was it was a 7/16" hole and the alternator had a 3/8" hole inside the steel bushing pressed into the alternator. I didnt want to chance drilling the bushing as i feared it would get to thin. So i took a 7/16" bolt, and a long 3/8 bolt and welded the heads together carefully. Problem solved.

Now for the top mount. I found an old adjuster bracket in the garage. Bolted that to the alternator and looked to see what was closest around i could bolt to. I found another 7/16" boss on the intake side of the front of the head. So i used some threaded 7/16"rod as a stud, a piece of 1/2" steel pipe, and found some copper tubing to slide inside to bush the inside to the right size of 7/16" I trimed the adjuster bracket to size, and tacked it to the tubing, then removed and fully welded and ground smooth--and added the lightening holes, just because i can.

All thats left to do is add a front support onto the stud, this will go from a boss on the waterpump to the stud itself, its just a piece of steel flatstock with two holes in it, i made one already but its a bit off on my hole spacing so i have to make another. Enjoy the pics.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2501334290.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2501334291.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2501334292.jpg

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

i have a 77 d-200 dodge with a 440 and i think i like your's better. go to the local pick-a-part and look for a early 80's dodge van they have a small brake booster that should bolt right in. they are half the size of the stock truck unit

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Thanks, not to many Mopar guys are happy with me. I have nothing against Chysler motors either---its all i really know to be honest. But i can't give the truck up and Chevy stuff is generally cheaper and plentiful. Plus i am at a time in my life where i dont care what others think, for god sakes its all the same metal when it gets melted down.

On another note, i do like the design aspects of a big block chevy over the small block, but obviously they cost more to build.

On the brake booster, i am going to do one of two things. Ether try and raise it up a hair or get the smaller booster for it. Right now i kinda stopped as this week i am working on our 1920 model T pickup--its stock, slow, and cool.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

yeah ,hell with what other people say . i once put a 327 and power glide in my 1970 dodge dart swinger. everyone gave me hell until i waked away from them at the street light. that thing was fast as hell . thats what makes cars fun doing whatever you want. i like all cars and find they will all run strong when done right. the nastest one i ever drove was a 68 L-88 vette but i have had 400 pontiac's that would run 140 mph all day long.also had a 70 429 torino that was unreal . hell they are all fun. have fun with you truck . paint the engine orange, it has to be it's a chevy.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Picked up another 454 last night. This one will have the cheap rering/bearing rebuild done to it and slammed in to get the truck running. The one being used for mockup needs a complete rebuild and full maching.

Anyways, some peliminary teardown looks like this may have been rebuilt once, but is still standard bore. Unfortunatly some water did get in--why people store motors outside i'll never know, but i think i can ball hone the light surface rust out of the couple of cylinders its in---its mostly up top past the rings. The heads didnt fare as well (peanut ports), they had all the rockers backed off but some water sat in the intake ports. I have my own valve and seat regrinding equipment so i can probably salvage them. This is an EGR motor so i am guessing it has to be after '75, my guess is early 80's buy the plastic oil cap and lower pulley that has 2 v-belts grooves and one serp belt groove on it. It was a carbed motor. EDIT: Its an 1985 carbed truck motor by the numbers.

So now i am on the search for some cheap rebuild parts, i'll finish tearing the shortblock apart and take it to work and use the super-sonic, blast-o-mighty powerwasher we have, LOL. The smaller parts i will put in our smaller hot tank to get clean.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Unfortunatly, no new updates right now. We have been working on our 1925 Ford Model T getting it running. The second 454 i bought is all cleaned and bagged, ready to start the the super cheap 454 rebuild---as soon as i get some time and parts. Everything looks nice after the cleaning, so i am hoping soon i can start something on it.

I was in the middle of mounting the P/S pump, that is almost figured out, i will post the adventures and pics of that soon. I think i am going to be able to use my stock Chrysler saginaw pump with the stock big block brakets with very minimal mods. Stay tuned...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...dTsep09235.jpg

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

put the extra rat motor in the 25 ford

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Ha, when i tell people we own a Model T, they instantly think hotrod T. While i am certianly not a purists by anymeans, the T stays as true to stock as i can keep it. Besides, have you ever seen a real T chassis? The fact the people used too (maybe still do) cut and weld to even put a small block chevy or ford in is crazy. If i ever thought about building any type of hot rod T, it would have a full 2x3" box rail tubing in it, not the cheesy factory 1.5x2.5" c-channel.

Anyways, no progress this coming weekend, going out of state for a car show i have never been too. More updates will follow as time allows, but unfortunatly winter is coming and all the outside BS needs to get done around the house before it gets too cold.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

be sure and post some pics from the show

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Well, a bit ago, i purchased a set of P/S brackets and single groove pulley off of Egag. I had decided since my pump was good and already a saginaw pump (same as the stock big block chevy pump), that i would use it. This so far has been an act of fustration that i still haven't got figured out.

First off, while maybe obvious to others, i had to figure out how this stuff went on. Some help on the net (here in fact) helped with that. Then came mounting the top bracket to the pump. Problem two is that the newer pumps are not designed anything like the older pumps. This neccesitated adding washers to space the bracket out from the pump. Then i had to swap a stud in the back from one hole to another. Ok, now where ready to bolt it up---err, maybe.

Mounting the pump i realized the older pump must also be thicker in width than the newer style ones, so now i have to take up play in there somehow too, while maintaning belt alignment. I also have realized the lower pump bracket is not allowing the pump to sit square to the engine---and i thought this was going to be easy, LOL.

So right about now i am thinking i need to make my own upper bracket so i can shed the spacers and washers, and i may have to tweak or maybe even slice and dice the bottom bracket to get the pump to sit straght on the motor. I have been using some paint sticks across the tops of the pulleys to check for straightness, the sight right down in the grooves of the pulleys and work well.

And to answer any questions or shall i say the obvious question, no i dont have the original style GM pump to go with this motor. on to the pics...


Power steering brackets needed for big block long waterpump.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2546736510.jpg

My mounting so far

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2546736521.jpg

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Yeah, it needs a 9" rear to be a true three-way abomination:lol:. Just kidding -- awesome project, and a sharp-looking truck.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Yea maybe so, then i can run some AMC badges on it.

Actually, if i can do what i want to, i am going to sell the GM truck MY6 833 overdrive trans and bellhousing, and put a Chrysler 833 overdrive trans in with an adapter plate on a Lakewood GM bellhousing. I already have a thinner adapter plate i can use as the template from another project, it just needs to be thicker to act as a spacer on this one. Thus the only thing GM would be the engine at that point. I just need to find where i planted that money tree......

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

This power steering pump is kicking my A$$ trying to get it lined up. I think i have it now, but in my opinion, i think i am better off making my own top bracket. I probably should have just gotton the right pump, but man anything big block is like buying something for a corvette---expensive. Plus i am unsure if the stock Dodge line would work in the original pump anyhow. I guess the next step is to get some 3/16" plate and make my own upper bracket.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

I finally procured some 3/16 steel and had time to carve my own upper bracket. Now i can use my Saginaw Metric pump on this engine. I still may have some line up issues, but they are ALOT better now. Here is the pic of the stock bracket on top and mine on the bottom. They look similar, but on mine, one leg is set back behind the bracket and one is foward of it, where the stock bracket has both going foward---i had to use alot of shims on the stock one.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2577944130.jpg

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Nice Job.

Re: Crossbred, 454 into an '85 Ram
 

Thanks.

Next up on the list, change everything.

I made a decision in the beginning to try and run an HEI. Of course to do that, engine placement was compromised a little. Well, its just not going to fly with the big block. I am going to have to use a smaller distrubutor and move the engine back and rework my chassis mounts.

I also have worked in the Chrysler 833 manual 4-speed trans, so i have no issues with speedo hook up, driveshaft hook up or any of that fun stuff. So that GM 833 (MY06) overdrive 4-speed trans and bellhousing will be for sale, i just need to get a Chevy blowproof bellhousing first.

I am painting the garage---still, so maybe tommorow i can get back on it and do some work while i am off this week---stay tuned.