Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Well let me start of saying you guys did some excellent swaps! I'm in Afghanistan and I'm torn between dropping a 6.5td with a 4l80e in my 67 c-10 or a 5.9 cummins with a nv4500? I have all the trucks to do the swap. I've considered how easy the 6.5 would be to swap but I love manual and the sound of a cummins. I have a few months to make up my mind, What do you think? Here is a snap shot of the truck in question. 67 c-10 with a 250 rebuilt engine, and a 3speed manual. I will be selling off the drive line in due time

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

cummins/nv4500

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

I'd go with the cummins. I think you have to spend a lot more money to get the amount of reliable power out of a 6.5td that you can get very reliably from a cummins.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

in for cummins. the 6.5 is a notorious turd. especially if you want to start making black smoke.

Ryan

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

12v cummings, great reliable engine and there is no needed electronics

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

It's official, I'm pretty sure I sold the chevy 2500 so now I have no choice in the matter. The dodge is a 4x4 but I have a 2wd output shaft and tail housing for it. I plan on the C-10 getting good fuel mileage. I was thinking of a rear end ratio in the low 3's, Any sugestions on what to put in the rear? I want it to hold up from the torque but also cruising on the hwy at 75-80. It kind of sucks, the friend I bought the c10 off of recieved the truck from his dad before he died and the engine has never been started. What a shame.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

I can't believe you had to ask yourself. :lol:

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

If your staying 1/2 ton....The truck 12-bolt will not like the off-idle torque of a 6BT.

A Ford 9" would hold up & give the widest/precise range of gear ratio options, a 3.00:1 would work great in a stock tire height 1/2 ton.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Has anyone used gear ratio calculators? According to what I've calculated the 6bt should be cruised around 1800 rpm's. With the NV4500 5th gear ratio is at .75 To be able to do around 73- 75 mph I would need 2.59 gears in the rear end. I figured the tire size to be around 27 inches? the truck is a 2wd and will be lowered so obviously this is all an educated guess!! Do you think 2.59 gears would hold up to the torque? I would really like to do this once, as im not a rich man! Thanks for any help...

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

The ratio doesn't "normally" make the gear set weaker on stronger until you get to 4.56:1 & up....The small pinion gear can marginally weaken the pinion.

Running in 5th below 2000 rpm is what "rattles" the 5th gear nut loose.
A 2.91:1 would put you at 2031 at 75mph.

You should look at gears that are available for the differential your going to run. All gear ratios I'm stating are for a 9" Ford, Picking ratio's that don't exist or not available for your diff does you no good.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

I hear ya, thanks for the imput. My Father rebuilds tranny's for a living and he said the same thing. But he didnt know what rpm's are good for it. Would 2000 rpm;s hurt my fuel mileage on the hwy or is it still in the sweet spot? Like I said I'm putting out feelers so I dont have to buy 3 different sets of gears and stuff of that nature. Any other pointers for the driveline before I dig in would be appreciated. I've got a few months to go here before I get back home.. I cant wait. Thanks again guys!

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

ever concider a 4bt?

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

If you can run 2000-2100rpms at 75mph it should get great mileage. The sweet spot for towing varies from set up to set up, but 1800-2200 is a good range to shoot for. Randy's ring and pinion has a good gear calculater on their site if you want to play with one.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

I have considered a 4bt but the 6bt sounds way better and shakes less. I was actually looking for a box truck this whole time but just gave up because they want an arm and a leg for them by us. The truck is going to be my daily driver and probably will never tow anything. so I guess I'm just shooting for the best fuel mileage from a 6bt. I bought a 95 dodge 3500 dually like 5 days ago The engine was replaced and has 60k on it, the tranny grinds in 3rd but as I said before My old man rebuilds trannys so he said he has most of the hard parts I need. There's no turning back now boys it a done deal!!! When I get back i'll have like over 2 months of leave saved up so It shouldnt take too long to get it all fabbed up.. Thanks again guys.. any input is very welcome!! I was reading that just putting c-20 suspension up front will be sufficient. I want to lower the truck so I'm going to buy a c-20 lowering spindle and then use stock c-20 upper and lower control arms and hope it sits good in the front. They say you can buy the disk conversion kits or find 71-72 disk assembly from factory and they will bolt up to the aftermarket drop spindles.. So I guess finding a rolling c-20 2wd frame with disk brakes would be the best case senario but I think thats not going to be cost effective compaired to the kits you can buy off-lne.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

i would stick with the chevy l6 then, if you do need to tow they are excellent engines for the job.

im rockin a 250 l6 and i get 27hwmpg and i love it.
its my daily driver and has been for the past two years

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

The C-20 suspension isn't much different from the C-10, Boxing the front section of the frame will do the most good, Your stock control arms are just as stout as C-20 hardware, Moog balljoints & shaft kits will do fine. Then buy some lowering spindles that are compatible with stock disc brake set-up.

You need to get your speedometer calibrated.....Because its reading way to fast;). Those MPG claims are ridiculous.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Okay here is what im going to order from xtreme diesel, do you think this is a good start for a build? Am I forgetting anything?


BD-Power Mechanical Governor Spring Kit (3000 RPM) BD1040187 1 $161.50 $161.50
ARP Diesel Head Stud Kit 247-4203 ARP247-4203 1 $480.22 $480.22
DDP High Flow Dodge 12V Cummins Injectors
Power Level: Stage 3 (90 HP) DDP 9498-3 1 $760.00 $760.00
PureFlow AirDog II Air/Fuel Separation System DF-165 (w/ Adjustable Regulator) "Quick Connect"
Model Year: 94-98 (Preset @ 25-30psi) PTA5SABD024 1 $670.00 $670.00
BD-Power P7100 Fuel Stop Plate
Fuel Stop Plate Part#: #5 1040196 BD1040196 1 $213.75 $213.75
BD-Power Super "B" Single Turbo
With Polished Compressor Housing?: Yes BD1045220P 1 $1,425.00 $1,425.00
Valair 13" Upgrade Clutch NMU70279-04-5SCE VLNMU70279-04-5SCE 1 $780.40 $780.40
BD-Power 60# Valve Springs 1030060 BD1030060 2 $80.75 $161.50
Victor Reinz Head Set HS54174-2 MCIHS54174-2 1 $189.92 $189.92

Subtotal: $4,842.29

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Stick with Cummins OEM

BTW thanks for serving.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

TST fuel plate & governor springs will save you some money, & just as good if not better than BD.

http://www.tstproducts.com/94-9812valvedodgeram-1.aspx

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Also the gasket set is for an ISB 24V not a 12V according to the part number.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Well alittle up date and pictures to come. I have both drivelines pulled from both trucks. Last night I set the motor in my truck and I'm not sure exactly where everyone is setting it? Their used to be a c10 on here with pretty good pictures showing exactly where it sits. I have the bell housing attached to the 6bt for fitting purposes. I'd like to get it lower but the main engine craddle or crossmember is kind of in the way. I've considered cutting a chunk out and reinforcing it. Any Idea how much this motor will rock when bolted in? Or another way of saying, how close to the cross member can i get before i risk the pan hitting when i get on it?

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

I've seen guys cut a notch in the engine cross member and then box it back in to set the engine lower in the frame. Beat68cst is doing a 2wd, I'll have to check his thread for pics. How much the engine rocks depends on what mounts you use. My first gen poly mounts have very little movement in them. Stock rubber ones will yield a lot of movement and they love to break. 2nd gen mounts don't move more then 1/2" with wear on them. Mounts like ryanroo is using is another great option as well.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Well I did alot of measuring and decided to cut 3" out of the engine craddle and the steering linkage. 13" wide. Im going to take some pictures tonight

The start of my 67 c10 stepside cummins
 

Well I have some pictures of the original to the truck driveline. It's really easy pulling the driveline out of a truck that had been put together years ago with brand new hardware and never been out of the garage! I pulled the cover off the 4 speed manual trans and it looks like someone replaced all the synchros it looks real nice in there, to bad im not using it!

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Well I did have it in the engine bay but forgot to take pictures! I'm extremely new to this sort of thing. So here is one of it after i realized it doesnt just bolt up! The trans is a NV4500 4x4 and im in need for a 2wd tail housing so i can convert it over. Ive been trying like hell to trade trannys straight up on CL but just nibbles no biters. More to come!

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Looking good! I have a couple 2wd core transmissions. One is supposed to be good, but how good, IDK. I removed the top plate and everything looks good in it.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Got a little done with cutting, also stuffed her back in and started drawing on the frame rails to cut out for the steering pump and the A/C compressor. I think I found a way to make some stock mounts to work!

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Looking nice! You're going to have the engine way down there. :lol:

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Thats how the cool kids do it!

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Hell yeah! Makin some progress, looking good!

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

I have off on Friday so now I cant get something done!!!

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Love to see all this. I'll put a Cummins in anything!
Attachment 1208903
Dug fresh out of the scrap bin. Converted my nv4500 to 4x4. Its not the new updated shaft with the spilt collar but was in the trash. Mounting holes could use some work.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

well i dont know yet how to put text over each picture so i have to talk about a little ahead of time. I managed to get some crap done. front end boxed in, engine craddle boxed in, motor mounts made, tore the tranny down so it was lighter to mock up.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Oh by the way my welder is so much nicer when i have the right gas! I'm going to take all the good news I can, so when i saw where the tranny sat and realized im not going to have to touch the fire wall or floor I drank a beer with a smile! Anyone have a good idea what kind of pitch i should have with the drive shaft?

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Another Cummins swap in progress Nice!!!

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

how close are the engine mounts to the framerail? looks real close in the picture. the OEM rubber will tear on a lot of trucks, making them move more than they otherwise would. if the mount is to close, you may have some sweet sweet love being made.

also, i do not know if the dodge mounts are cast or forged, but i would be they are a casting. i am curious about the method used when welding them to the mild steel plate. if not done correctly that may cause an issue down the road.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

To address the movement of the mounts mentioned by Ryanroo, you can get poly bushings to press in the centers that help a lot with the vibrations. Those mounts are cast and I would be very careful of doing them that way unless you preheated those cast pieces before welding them. I'd hate to see one of them brake on you during a road trip or something. Also, since you cut your cross member so low, why not bring the engine down to utilize all that room? It might require pan clearance issues, but your drive line angle may be better if you plan on lowering the truck in the future. On driveline angle I try to get it close to 3* on the shaft.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

well i would love to use a diffewrent style mount for sure cause i heard about the stock mounts, but when i was looking for different mounts nothing seemed to look like it would work! any ideas?

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Here are some options. First, on 24v dodge cummins engines, they have a short and long mount. Get a couple short ones and see if you can use them. Here is my 76 when I re did the engine mounts.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...0/DSC00509.jpg

Here I used poly first gen dodge cummins mounts on a 89 V2500 suburban. These mounts can be used in your set up pretty easily.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...n/IMG_0077.jpg

If you want to prepare for bigger power, you can put 2 per side.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...n/DSC00229.jpg

Some people use stock SBC clam shell mounts, but I feel they aren't strong enough and allow the engine to vibrate excessively.

You could also use t bushings like Ryanroo used on his truck as well.

Re: Alright chummins or stick with chevy???
 

Whoow its been awhile. A little update for everyone. I got my mounts I think figured out. I also picked up new front fenders. A different box. Vintage air. Tubular a arms disk brakes stainless lines all around.