Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

I have a '69 GMC with no engine. So I thought id try my hand at a diesel with some stacks to make it a puller. Now the problem for me is is this. One thing. Money. Im a highschool student working on a farm but havnt gotten the chance too since school. So heres my plan, getting a diesel in her and getting a tranny behind it. Ive never worked on a diesel engines before. What kind of mounts do I need? whats the most inexpensive engine that I can get and keep suspension mods and a zero or at a minimum. I want to put a 5 speed behind it and make it roll some coal. So what can I use for a 5 switch? So the main question is this. Im lookin for a I6 or even a 4 banger, just want some torque and a five speed. Im in Nebraska as far as prices go. Thanks Guys!!!! :chevy: :gmc2::flag::flagw::g2: Thanks again and cant wait to start the BUILD!!!!

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

If money's short toss in a 350 and trans of your choice. Going diesel is never cheap. I run a 12 Valve Cummins in my burb and even with a donor truck the cost was much more than a traditional small block.

Get the old gal running and driving with a gasser and when you have more cash start planning a diesel swap and buying parts. A truck on the road is much more fun than one in the garage.

-And rolling coal is just wasting fuel and abusing your hard earned parts. I have a small haze under full throttle and can pull my trailer at 80 plus without thinking about it at part throttle. And that's with 35s and a lift.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

2X ^
A truck on the road is better than two in the garage. Converting to diesel is no small task. Going with a 4 cylinder will help on the weight issues only, but you won't like the power. It will run out of legs real quick.

Get the truck running on a gasser and enjoy it. Then look for a 3/4 or 1 ton to drop a Duramax into and tune it with EFI Live. BIG POWER!

Chicks dig old trucks... you'll soon find out. Use your money and time making it a chick magnet.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

Do a Cummins 6bt or 4bt. Go Cummins or go home. And if you do the 4BT with twins then you wont run out of legs, it will make a 350 look stupid.

BTW Cummins is American, I believe the Duramax is Isuzu.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

The easiest and the cheapest would be a 6.2/6.5L Chevrolet.

Any transmission able to put up with a diesel is likely to be as costly (or more) than the engine.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

The two (24 valves) in my daily drivers were made in Brazil ;)

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

American design, where as the duramax is designed by Isuzu. Nothing is actually made in America anymore. ;)

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

For price, the 6.2/6.5 is the cheapest way to go. What you want to do with it is going to be what costs the most money. A cummin's swap as said would be expensive but is the best diesel to have in one, but a lot of work and money.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

I lot of people are telling you to put in a 350 and drive, that is true. You should find one with a tranny and be up and running for around 1200 to 1500 depending on what you already have with the truck and if you have some help that know something about trucks. Now to get a Diesel in and running and driving in that same truck [assuming it is 2wd] it is gonna cost around $4000 to $6000 still assuming you have some help that has some knowledge. This isn't a project for the faint of heart or weak of wallet. I don't want you to give up on your dream, I build and rebuild trucks for a living and have since I was a teen and opened my my own shop in 1987.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

The cummins swap wont be that bad money wise, can pick up a decent 12 valve 6bt for $1000 all day long up here.

best thing would be find a pre 98 ram thats rotten and use it for a doner

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

Cummins!!!!!!
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Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

6.2/6.5 turbo mounts bolt to it any small block tranny will bolt to it parts are cheap they don't weigh much more then a big block good on fuel and last for ever if you don't abuse them. A cummins swap is expensive and heavy have to use a tranny with a cummins bellhousing bolt pattern. Also parts for cummins is expensive and a lot of modification. Do not use the 5.7 diesel you may find it cheap still do not use it.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

6.2/6.5s are junk tho. Never seen one that didn't have horrific blow by. The cummins may be a bit heavy but parts are readily available and considerably easier to work on.

Chances are you will want more power out of it down the line, honestly when is enough really ever enough, and a p-pump 12 valve will be one of the strongest bases to build off
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Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

Never had one that was junk just tore mine down had 275000 miles and looked like it had only 50000 on it. Like I said if you take care of them which might not be a good idea being you have never worked on a diesel. Maybe get some hands on before you swap something in your truck. My .02
p.s not trying to steer you away from a diesel swap just better to know how to work on them when swapping

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

They get a bad name the 6.2/6.5 because they're not the powerhouses that cummins are. Member 67_C_30 I believe is the one who did a 6.5 swap into one and it is a very well documented build thread.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

I used to work as a fleet mechanic for the Post Office here in Fort Worth Texas. We had a whole bunch of 6.5 powered trucks and they were very good ones. The drivers just put the accelerator on the floor everywhere. Across the whole fleet, I don't ever remember needing to go into one of the engines. Basically injector pumps were about the only thing we ever had to mess with. They clattered their way down the road six days a week driven by abusive drivers.
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Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

12 valve cummins.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

Cummins is German my friend. Look it up. But still a great motor.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

I would do Cummins or a D-Max.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

My mistake thinking of a different motor, don't mind me.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

Here's a link on their Headquarters building..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummins...ffice_Building

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

Have you ever had a 4BT? That thing will shake the teeth right out of your head. What good are Twins without supporting mods on a 3.9L?

6.6 Duramax engines are built by DMAX LTD. in Ohio, A joint venture between Isuzu & GM, Yes Isuzu designed the engine FOR GM, So what......Isuzu has a lot of light/medium duty diesel experience.


The founder of Cummins Engine Co. Clessie Cummins was born in Indiana.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

You could have it balanced.

My opinion? 6>8

Hard to come by, but an Onan/Cummins 6AT will mate to a SBC/BBC bellhousing. I think* the motor mounts are similar to a 250 or 292.


*I am thinking that I read this somewhere but could be wrong

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

It's not a balance issue.....All 4 cylinder engines without harmonic/balance shafts shake. A 17:1 4-cylinder will shake ALOT, Only firing 2 cylinders per crank revolution makes this an Inherent issue.
All engine manufacturers balance rotating assembly's.

How is 6 greater than 8? All B series Cummins owners think their engine's are supreme. In my opinion if Cummins made a V8 version of the B series....It would be "all the rave"!

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

Doesn't seem to be shaking to bad. Can't be 100% positive but looks very fun to me.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

He never let it idle....That's when they shake.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

You can't get as many main bearings in a V8.

As far as 4 cylinders, we had a little old D4 Cat that was smooth as glass. So is our TD14.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

For expense, you can sort of compare my two builds. the cummins truck is way into the 5 digit zone. and i havent even gotten the bodywork finished, nor is it running. it is a little atypical however as i have done a bunch of extra stuff to it. but, just the cost of the engine and transmission is more than i have invested in my "parts truck" build. that was a one ton swap, 350, transmission and tcase build, and some extra new parts. factor in all the fab work that i dont charge myself for and it would be pretty serious dough just to get an engine in and functional without all the extra stuff.

now as to the source of the engine, cheapest will be a 6.2/5 gm diesel. they use standard GM transmission and and you can easily use a 5 speed tranny. not real good for power adding. they have a tendancy not to live if you toss much more power at them than stock. stock they do alright, but mighty gutless in comparison.

you can find decent deals on 12v 6bts, but i doubt you can spend less than 2k on an engine and transmission if they are ready to run. they are a good proven engine that supports power making mods easily. the 24vs are decent engines if they have an uncracked 53 block with or the non 53 blocks. the IP is difficult to make awesome power with, and is prone to failure if not set up correctly. anything in the common rail department will cost way more than the earlier engines. anything that isnt a 12v will have some form of electronic control. more wiring/work/points of difficulty. they fit in the engine compartment good enough and you can wedge the dodge I/C in there pretty easily.

the 4bts are not super powerful stock, and if you are going to spend money making power, why not do it to the 6? they shake like a dog sh*tting razor blades at idle, and i have never seen one that didnt. its the curse of the i4.

the duramax has always been common rail and electronic controlled. this will pose more issues in the finalization of the install. it will cost more to buy an engine and they are HARD to find with a manual trans. so most of them will be hooked to an allison and that will add significant cost. i know deals are out there but ive never found an engine alone for less than the 2800-3000 range that was a running pull out and not damaged. they can make awesome power(just look at dimitri mallard) but it gets real pricey real quick. the bottom ends dont do that great over 550-600 horse and new rods are the price of a decent 12v. ive never done a swap with a dmax, although i would like to try, so i cant speak to the ease or difficulry of installation. i doubt it will be that much worse than any custom install.

now as to who or what is better, that is all opinion. i like the cummins because of what they offer. i like the duramax for what it offfers. i wouldnt shy away from a 6.2 or 6.5 if i had it and didnt have my heart set on super hot rod power.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

also, as far as i know, gm owned basically a majority of isuzu shares until they repurchased a lot of thier shares. in the deal GM owns the duramax and any isuzu diesel engine designs. so, technically GM owns/build the duramax.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

restorationboy has not replyed back to any post:confused:

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

He probably got sticker shock of mentioned diesel swap and decided to drop this thread. I don't blame him as I'm a big diesel fan and I don't dare mention it.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

i beleve you are right so much hate it does not matter what you got as long as you build it my moto always is though easier is cheaper

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

We're not trying to scare him, heck I want there to be more old trucks with oil shakers under the hood. But it is a large undertaking financially and time wise. If I added up my costs for just my engine and transmission you're looking at $4000

$2000 donor truck
$800 clutch
$200 hydro clutch stuff
$200 intercooler
$300 radiator
$100 steel tube and plate
$200 misc gaskets and fasteners
$150 drive shaft
$50 misc welding supplies, necessary tools
___________
$4000

And a month of leave doing the majority of the swap with a few weeks of odds and ends thereafter.


That's with a super cheap donor truck that I drove for a year and actually pulled my burb from SoCal to SoDak before I yanked the 6BTA out of it.

It also didn't include transmission options, I went with a 6 speed, but keeping the 5 speed would have cost some coin as well.

$2000 NV5600 or $1000 to rebuild Getrag 360 5 spd
$200 NP205 rebuild

And I haven't mentioned the coin spent on axles or improvements to the engine.

Now for comparison to drop a small block in.

$500 used engine
$500 used transmission
$100 bolts, gaskets, misc
________
$1100 and most of it recoverable if you pull it out later to toss in a diesel.

A decent weekend or two.

Go for it, but have a plan and parts on hand before starting; there are a lot of trucks that get torn apart to never be finished due to poor planning and short funds.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

Never been a big fan of diesels, although I've been learning and working on them a lot more lately; but from the rough estimate you came up with doesn't seem too bad compared to most LSx swaps I've seen. I've been working on a 5.3/4L60E swap for my '71 c10 and my total will be near 6K when it's finished, and that's with a stock engine.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

He got a good deal on a donor truck

My Grandfather passed recently and I was given the job of selling his truck. A 1998 2WD Dodge with a 12 valve and automatic. 115,000 on the odometer. Overall,the truck was in decent shape.

I was able to get $6500 for the truck. The kid that bought it was grinnin' ear to ear.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

I got a screaming deal on a donor truck; it should have been in the $4000 range being a 91.5 3/4T 4x4. That was three years ago and prices have been going up on the early Cummins Dodges. Great deals are easier to find when you have time. I looked for 6 months and rode 125 miles on my motorcycle to buy mine with 219k on the broken odometer. The duct tape was to keep rain out at speed, every panel was smashed (but rust free?!), the transmission needed to double clutch into 3rd, and most of the lights did whatever they wanted to do. I got the only good parts left other than the frame. In it's defense, it did have matching near-bald tires when I bought it.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...2011134857.jpg

My $4000 didn't even touch the transmission or axles. If I tried to do my swap today and in a rush, I would have well over $8000 (extra $2k for donor and the $2k for transmission) in my swap, not including axles and power increases. I probably wouldn't do a diesel swap at that cost, but I love the power and fuel mileage that a gasser couldn't touch in my K20.

Random note: I do want to toss an LS in a different car of mine and hopefully I can do it on the cheap, but I'll keep driving it with a traditional small block until I have all the parts on hand to do it. Keep the swap down to a few weekends (okay, a lot of weekends).

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

I6 crankshafts are longer, Of coarse it will need support. Your argument doesn't have much ground.....Example.....An I6 3406 Cat V.S. a V8 3408 Cat, Both will require an In-frame at the same Miles/Hours.

Put that Cat 4 cylinder in your truck & see what happens, Heavy machinery like Dozers don't idle very low either.

For the record I never put down The 6BT, I've owed 2 P-pump 6BT Dodges in the past, The stock LBZ Duramax I have now will walk any stock turbo 12 valve, Just a Smoke Show from the Cummins.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

I had one of those that said 210k miles, Pretty sure it had well over 400k on it by the time I sold it, I know it never clocked much more since I got it and I used it... ALOT

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

a stock lbz to a stock 12v. that is sort of apples to oranges anyhow. an engine with an oem rating of 360/650 vs an engine that had an oem rating at most of 215/440. so at best you have a 145 hp and 210 tq disparity. id say the lbz should walk on the 12v. the simple fact is that they are two totally different animals. comparing them is silly. bring the 12v up to 360 and i bet the comparison is much better.

Re: Putting a diesel in my 69 GMC? What engine to use?
 

I said stock Turbo, As in HX-35, But running whatever fuel plate, Intake & exhaust.