"its all about ol' black"
 

This started out on my 78 GMC K35 350/sm465/np205 I wanted a nv4500 and 203 doubler but it worked out that I done the trans swap first then the doubler 4 months later.
This is how I did mine....................

Finally found the rare 95 version with square top shifter and 5.61 first rebuilt on ebay for 960 shipped... (perfect)

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

First was to get rid of that aluminum tail housing and get a cast iron 1 .No way was I bolting a np205 and later a doubler to that factory tailhousing/mount combo. The cast one is about 3 times the weight of the aluminum. Also, my 205 has the additional weight of the duel shaft PTO running my winches.

If you look you can see the notch for the 205 shift rail as well as the shave for the 205 countershaft retainer nut below that.
I already had a round pattern np205 I had sourced out a year before that I was going to use

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Now onto my bellhousing I very simply took the factory sm465 bellhousing (the 85'-up hydraulic one ) fit it on the input bearing retainer of the nv4500(same size) set it straight and transfer punched the holes from the inside of the bellhousing to the face of the nv4500 drilled and tapped the face then bolted and wire locked it on ...done.
Keep in mind 95' and back nv4500 with external slave.
All bolts go outside of case if lined up correctly.
The bellhousing now has to be installed bolted on the transmission. (No problem went in easily with lots of room;Just like autos or nv5600 ,nv3500...)
Same clutch, release bearing ,pilot bearing ,fork and bell from the 4 speed I already had swapped to a 85'-up hydro bellhousing years before and had an extra one for this swap.
Forgot to mention the round pattern 86'-91 np205 has long 32 input I swapped out with the short 32 spline input from a 77'-84' bathtub np205. So no spacer is needed.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

cool thread, I've wanted to do this too!

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Time to address the shifters .
I wanted my twin sticks I was already using to come up in the same hole and position as before but wanted a shifter instead of a cable for the pto so i made a bracket for all and I could add another shifter to; for a doubler at a later date. this is what I made simple yet very strong.
The install is next.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Did you modify the stock mechanical pedals or switch to hydraulic ones?

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Bluex- I did swap pedals then but ;The cab on it now is a 85' southern rust free was empty when bought .


I do recommend getting all pedal hardware from a donor truck of the same bellhousing.Most cabs from
85-up have a firewall dimple (if auto) for where to drill master cylinder rod hole for clutch (If I remember is 1 1/4"or 1"1/2)plus two 3/8" bolt holes.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

It's like the ultimate 4wd setup! Very nice.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Ok, i have two sets of manual linkage pedals. Im trying to find some pictures from someone who used manual pedals with a hydraulic clutch. I just cant see paying 200 or more for the hydro pedals. I'm swapping to an nv3500 with the internal slave. I have found some ideas from older trucks but the manual pedal in these trucks is very different from the 60-72 trucks....

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Bluex- here are a few pics of the hydro pedals maybe you can make something work going by them.
Do you mean slave cylinder nv3500 95-n'back or hydraulic release bearing
nv3500 96'-up?
I have these transmissions in other vehicles I own s10 and blazers 90'-up

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Ya it has the release bearing. The transmission is from a 97 I believe. Thanks for the pedal pics, I've seen a few now an the biggest difference is the manual pedal is two pieces that bolt together. I'll figure something out when I get to that point...

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

This nv4500/roundnp205 combo is 1 1/2" longer then what I had which was a 85' sm465/bathtubnp205 and the new mount centerline was about 2 1/2" farther back and 4" higher up in the chassis.

This is how I decided to tackle this...

My existing crossmember(s) consisted of two the same drop down foot style with a 1/4 skid(bomb) plate covering it all and wanted to keep this; I like the way it ties it all together for strength.
So i had to make up a difference of 4". I decided to use 4x4 tubing(heavy wall) , welded and bolted to crossmember and the new style polyurethane trans mount.
note: If I had the flatter style 1 ton crossmembers 2x2 tubing would be enough.
as for the holes for the frame to crossmember I drilled holes in crossmember 2 1/2" from the rear hole and this will be my new front hole (rear in the frame that is already there) so that will line it up and I just had to drill out the other 2 holes in the frame when it was bolted on. I did drill the other 2 extra holes for strength.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

The doubler was always in the back of my mind so the poly foot mounts I took out and the extra crossmember would maybe come into play at a later date.
Now my rear driveshaft I took to a shop and they shortened it 1 1/2" and balanced it in 2 hours and cost me $165.00.
My rear winch shaft I shortened myself in 1 minute (Chopsaw):lol:
My front driveshaft I used a 3/4 ton one I had kicking around they are about 2" longer because of the smaller front diff.
My front winch shaft I had to buy new solid square stock to make up the 1 1/2" about $40.00
All and all I like the way this turned out and the cost was affordable for me.
The transmission shifts better and faster then the muncie 465 but not as fast as a nv3500 still has the heavy truck feel which is fine with me.
My R.P.M. drops 600 in fifth(o.d) very nice for fuel economy and the 5.61 first gear I can utilize more on the street.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Well after driving it around for a couple of months I was still thinking of a doubler but did not like aluminum ones till I came across John at JedsMachining all welded steel; oh yeah I'm in!
I wanted the shifter to mount on the drivers side beside the pto shifter as previously thought out and the conclusion I came up with; was a Ford NP 203 box with all GM gears installed (all I really needed to change was the input gear) But the ford box has the shift lever on the drivers side and jeds made me an adapter to go from rear ford to 6 bolt GM np205 all gaskets and hardware plus a couple of clocking options at no extra charge for this hybrid. It also came with a new 32 spline output shaft for the np203.

First off was to line up the mounts so they were both flat then transfer punch the 6 bolt GM pattern into the face of the ford box. The one pic shows how the gm pattern is the same only clocked different and would interfere with driveshafts if used in this position.
Also pics of the GM/Dodge np203 box beside ford and a pic of different rear output bearing retainers (though either one will work)

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Drill and tap the 6 holes in the face of np203; reassemble, and it was done.
By the way the input bearing retainers on both gear boxes needed no mods in this set-up.
For a front driveshaft;
I had kicking around was for a th400/np203 shaft that was longer but I needed a little more length so I decided to swap in a 32 spline front output shaft on the np205 from a ford/dodge (Why GM did not use 1 is beyond me) and a flange from a SQUARE-B GM np208 with special seal(SKF 18752) then use a driveshaft spacer to make up the rest this also gave me better clearence from front crossmember,(works perfect)
Also ordered up another boot, shifter and knob from jbfab.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

The install was to:
Unbolt np205 then;bolt up np203 box with doubler adapter to nv4500 then bolt np205 back in .
The rear crossmember that originally only held the back of the skid plate was now going to support the doubler mount with the poly foot mounts I took out originally from the nv4500 swap and newer style mount.
I had to move rear crossmember closer to front crossmember drill new holes in frame then tied it alltogether with the modified skid plate.
Super strong setup!
Then add new boot, shifter and linkage.The rear driveshaft went back to the same shop for a couple of hours to be shortened 9" and balanced again , the pto shafts were modified accordinally also.

New Low range ratio is 100.7:1 WOW!

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Very cool! That is a rock solid set up right there! Nice work. I love the front PTO and those sweet shifters.

I wish I had a doubler with my NV4500/205. I have the later NV4500 with the 5:61 granny gear. Sure miss the 6:34 granny of the old SM465. A doubler would sure fix that. I am in the process of redoing my NV4500/205 set up now by removing the Advance Adapters pieces and installing a round pattern 205.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Thank you dirtylarry .
I have enjoyed all your write-ups and pics on here as well.

The front winch is a 8000 pound rhino and the rear winch is a 20000 pound braden with the cable run under the bed and exiting through a fairlead just above rear bumper. With the pto on the transfercase I use my transmission gears- 5 power-in speeds and 1 reverse power out... now with the doubler -I have 10 power-in speeds and 2 power out !
(like I really needed that ! ):lol:

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

pic of rear winch

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

really nice work. is there a bellhousing that would bolt directly? like if it came from a 95 1 ton 454?

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Wrecked1982- I see your location is just a couple hours down the 401 from me:metal: small world
A 95 bellhousing would bolt right up to a 92-95 trans except it locates the slave cylinder on the passenger (right) side of truck and may cause clearence issues with the front driveshaft. It also inherently makes you use the hickey dick hose and slave affair from the 88-up non squarebodies.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

ohh thats cool we may ride together one day lol, i though you were fron new York didnt check your location carefully, i will put a 4 inches lift on my 1 ton so the slave cylinder should clear. i am really bad at drilling holes with a hand drill when it needs to be machine and taped straight

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

A floor drill press and some jigging are your friends on that one for sure.


I frequent there often only seperated by a river makes for alot cheaper shipping.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

All those shifters will make a great anti theft device lol.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Yes it would if I hadn't put the shift pattern sticker on the inside roof! lol:lol:

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

That is insane and is exactly what I've been looking into for my truck. Awesome write up!! Can't wait to see this in action.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Thank You bluebomber.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Doubleclucker I am in the process of rebuilding my 1995 chevy nv4500 for my 1970 blazer I would like not to have to buy a AA bell housing if I don't have to. I have a 60's gm bell housing and dropped it on the and can't see how the bolts won't go in to the transmission case. Could you tell me the bolt pattern on you bell hosing to see if it is the same as mine.

Thank you for taking the time to do a nice write up.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

I love that sticker!!!! And really cool build!!

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Frickin' cool man!!! I have a 203 and a 205 Layin around. I'm hoping to do a doubler one of these days

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

DemkoG- The front bolt pattern on the transmission is the same for most all Muncie/saginaw's but the front bearing retainer is 5 1/8" only on the standard duty (CH)SM465 68'-91' and 92'-95' NV4500. If you look at the pics earlier on ;the top bolt holes are the ones that just make it on both sides if the bell is placed perfectly straight up.


And I thank you for the compliment of my thread.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

this is a really cool build. you modified your bell to work for the 4500 could I modify a mechanical bell to work my experience with hydro sucks

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Should be no problem with a (ch)sm465 mechanical bellhousing to a 92'-95' NV4500 transmission just line it up and transfer punch the holes...
then BOBS your uncle:lol:

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Well I thought it was time for an update as its been well over a year even 2.
About 2 months after the doubler install I kept hearing strange noises from the gearboxes and they got worse over about a month so I decided to investigate.
Seems the countershaft roller bearings went bad in the np203 box and even turned the shaft past the outside locking tab which was never really tight to it in the the first place (the factory ford one)so I made a new one tighter and stronger when rebuilt.Inside the box there was no damage anywhere else just the pieces of broken rollers in the bottom of the case!Just to be on the safe side though I had other range box internals so I cleaned and swapped all the parts inside.The gaskets would be too slow to get so I opted to buy a roll of gasket material and make my own which turned out even better I used empty 38 special casings to cut perfect bolt holes in the gaskets.Then I made an adapter to bolt the gearboxes right to the transmission jack for a safer install.I also made a bit different nv4500 shifter for clearence (i will see if I can find a pic)
Since then- No issues at all,quiet as a church mouse,:lol:
The overdrive is awesome.
On the bush trails tight turning and maneuvering are made more easier and controlled with the doubler and low gears (your not always on the clutch pedal)
In the end... I am very happy with this setup and the cost was very affordable.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Pretty cool stuff doubleclucker!

Where did you get the steel NV4500 tail adapter?

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Very, very cool build. My eventual goal for my K25 is the same drivetrain setup!

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

I got it from risingvoffroad/moonshine mafia; though I see they come on ebay once and a while for a little more money-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-NV4500...593a31&vxp=mtr



Forgot to mention my truck is my daily driver!

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Just figured I use same thread for everything about ol' black if this is wrong or not allowed let me know thanks.
Well I finally got my Bluetooth aldl so I can use my phone with aldldroid and I can say I really like it. The rdr bluetooth comes with a 10k resistor across pins A&B which is not needed for my 1227747 truck application and the inventer would not answer or call back to tell how to switch it off inside the box so I simply just pulled pin B out of my aldl connector and it works great.This is perfect for datalogging ,watching sensors also for chip tuning.

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Great work! And great write up! THanks for all the info!

Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black
 

Well figure its time for update-
last year I lost #8 cylinder and decided to retire the old 350. I found a low mileage 95' tbi to swap; basically a bolt in since I had converted the old motor to tbi/serpentine already.Just a flywheel from 1 piece motor needed.
One issue I am going to address is the cheezy distributor that comes with tbi.
more pics to come...