Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

As somebody who drives one everyday, I thought maybe some wrecked K5 pix might help those who forget traffic laws like the dummy who passed me yesterday doing 85-90 in a mid '80s K5.
That "integral" roll bar they talk about built into the cab the '76-'91 does not exist. I've cut maybe 30 of them up and have yet to see one.
Got this from an auction company I deal with time to time. I guy I spoke with said it supposedly hit a overpass concrete upright @ 45 and was flipped few times after the impact.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps25da9f9f.jpg

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

From the single photo, it looks like there was at least "room to live" as they used to say decades ago in my Driver's Ed class. Well, assuming they all had seat belts on. The passenger area in the rear looks quite a bit spookier, though.

I'm interested to hear more about the missing integral roll bar, though. Have you cut into the B-Pillar behind the door and saw nothing? Or are you talking about something that was supposed to be integral to the fiberglass top?

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

Inside the B pillar there is nothing but air. Not my photo but this what's in there when you cut the roof off.
http://coloradok5.com/fulltopconversion/012.jpg

There is steel in the fiberglass roof but not much. Goes around the top edge above the windows and across over the rear window as well as down in the very rear post. The tops are made in pieces then laminated together with the steel structure in-between.
That being said if you look at this wrecked truck and think about the shoulder harness that was used in the 90-91 roofs, there is no extra safety other than for a front or rear impact.

I saved a few more pictures of it.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...psacaaf678.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...pseeca257c.jpg

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

Comparing that truck to recent NHTSA testing photos of new cars I'd have to say id didn't do too bad. At least for the front passengers at least. As far as the integral roll bar, it's not actually a bar, but how the rear of the steel roof is formed and linked in as the "b" pillar. Let's face it, if you end up going ass over in K5, the body isn't going to survive well. Driver and passenger should get out ok depending on the circumstances.

I have a 75K5 with the factory roll bar. I can say this, it's probably less safe compared to the 76 and later models with the "integral" bar. Reason I see is you only have 1 hoop with the 75 version. The windshield header is NOT going to support a thing if the truck ends up on it's lid. It's only bolted to the floor and nothing is out back either. Go look on youtube for a 73-75K5 climbing potato salad hill at Moab that ends up going over and watch what happens to the top. At least a 76 and later metal cab structure forms more of a "box" that won't deform nearly as much as a full fiberglass top would.

IF you want to make it safer to survive a roll over or other accident, cage it. Tie it in right and use triangulation to add strength.

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

double post...

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

Looks like the integral roll bar did what it's intended to do. I think removable fiberglass tops went to the wayside for obvious safety reason that just couldn't be denied any longer. The 90/91 rear shoulder belts were a simple add-on to get through a couple more years a bit safer. Those help a lot I'm sure. You can always fond a wreck where an area is damaged in a way the safety device didn't help. Those rear shoulder belts do nothing with the top removed,that's for sure,and there's no law saying the top has to stay on. We used a '90 Blazer as our family car for 15+ years. I always wanted to put a full roll cage in,but never did. I knew it would be a bad scene if that thing went on it's top with passengers in the rear. The same was true for the slide-in camper I took my family all over the place in. Nothing to it if there was an accident.

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

I bet that was one clean looking K5 before the carnage.

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Hate to see one busted up that bad, especially one that apparently survived well up to that moment. I worry a little with my sons in the back only when the top is off. There's so many ragtop cars on the road on the road being enjoyed I try to enjoy my half-cab trucks without thinking about it too much.

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

My kids aren't getting in mine until it's lowered and therefore more stable, I have solidly fitted the roll bar I recently got, and put rear seats in with shoulder belts. As they get bigger then a full roll cage is necessary. Its not like I go anywhere extreme, no rockclimbing and getting it a bit muddy is about as far as it'll go, but no sense taking chances.

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It's on the hiway that I'd be concerned with

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This is my toy project really and for any Freeway driving I'll be in my ' 02 Mazda P5. Got 230k miles and still going strong at over 30 mpg. The Blazer doesn't QUITE compare.

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I run my truck all over California with 4" lift and 33". Solid as a rock and I fixed all the problems with K5s at speed. Tires @ 40psi, stiffer shocks, rear sway bar, bigger tie rod, all new front parts...even managed to get rid of the common K5 brake pull problem.
They act weird over 75. Get very light in the front end.

We have the baby in a Simpson baby seat made the race car seat belt co. but she is rarely in the truck on the highway.
There is an optional rear roll bar that was from '76 to '80 or so. Never seen a factory installed after '81. Another member, JeffinCo, install one in his '89 for roof off safety.

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Either this did not land on the roof, or the "roll bar" worked!
The cab is not crushed at all.

As a plus the spare tire and hitch look nearly perfect!

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that must have been one hard hit,
I'll take the steel roof over my head then nothing....

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I hear ya.
Here's a 73-75 that went over...
http://images.copart.com/website/dat...2175340_2X.JPG
http://images.copart.com/website/dat...2175340_1X.JPG
http://images.copart.com/website/dat...2175340_5X.JPG

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

wow scary and I always worried about flipping this chop

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Flying the red and white….
Reminds me of these guys…
http://youtu.be/yUuLSTwd39g

Re: Wrecked K5s: a case study
 

that would be some ride,wouldn't wana tip that either lol

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This will be a trailered off road-only rig? What I meant was rolling over while driving down the road with my kids in the back seat would be my concern. If I did serious four wheeling I would have a full cage even if I only went alone. The first Blazer shown I don't think ever rolled. The damage to the removable top came from side impact with the bridge pillar

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Hey Tim! You are correct sir. Bridge upright.
I was told it flipped on it's nose, spun around and nailed the other upright 40 feet away. Roof never hit the ground. It was marked bio hazard in the auction so somebody got hurt...
Right with you on a full cage tied to the frame.
Defeats the purpose of "topless" off roading but I had my fun in full 'verts in the desert yrs ago.
I must say there truly is nothing like being way the heck out there, going from dusk to full moon light with no roof as you bomb across the desert.

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I agree. I was like most people who wondered what's so great with spending days in the middle of nowhere where it's barren and lifeless,for the most part. And,I love the wilderness. But,my wilderness was generally in the forest,on a mountain,near a river or lake...maybe a deserted seashore or swampland. Then I lived in Flagstaff and discovered what I was missing. The openness is what it's all about! And there is plenty of life,you just might have to look harder and it's different life than anywhere else.

I've experienced a light roll over (onto side and slowly) with my top off and my two kids in the back seat in a '71 Blazer (one in baby seat). I feel we were very very lucky. I was young and dumb,had just put it on the road. That woke me right up. It had 7" lift and the first bias Swappers in 37/13-15 and no roll bar! I built a full cage for that thing before I started the damage repair from the accident. I also fitted shoulder belts all around.

My '90 wasn't lifted and was set up to handle better on the street. The same stuff as IRISH1941 mentioned. The 33/12.50 BFG A/Ts on 10" rims gave it a very stable track to wheelbase ratio. That thing felt like a sportscar.

I haven't done much with my '85 Jimmy but lift 4" (incl. sway bar spacers),35/12.50s,and soft top. It feels very stable and steady,but a roll cage is on the list...along with winch/fabbed bumpers/tire carrier,Stan's Headers,Dana60/TruTrac,14bolt/Detroit Locker,and put the dash pad,factory stereo,tilt column,and tach in I already have. In the three years Ive had it I've only had passengers in the rear seat on time. I probably would have removed it by now but that's why I own it. It's my car,I have plenty of trucks with only a front seat

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I stuff my kiddo's in back of my K5 when the weather is nice. We have talked about taking it on Vacation this summer.... This makes me cringe to think about the what ifs.. etc

I've had thoughts about a station wagon... maybe its time to think more heavily on that for a family cruiser?

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I don't consider them dangerous. How many convertible Mustangs are sold every year, or full convertibles? I am much more mindful of my driving when kids are in the back, but I'm not going to sell them or cage them or stop driving them with the top off - its not a death sentence. Use common sense and enjoy.;)

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I couldn't agree with you more, use of common sense with old trucks goes together like PB and Jelly. You can have one with out the other, but they go so much better together :)

I already have plans to mount some 3rd Row Late Model Tahoe/Sub seats in back. I think I'll look into at least a rear role bar. Would give a guy a little more piece of mind.

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I'm on the seat thing too. GMC yukon / Cadillac Escalade apparently have third row sets with integral shoulder belts.

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Remember the seat & belts are only as good as the floor it's bolted to. Big plates on the underside should hold it in.
Found a photo online of the factory rear roll bar. There are plates that go underneath and sandwich the floor pan and wheel tubs.
http://blazerfarm.com/ck5/posts/cd87_3.jpg

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For this reason, I went with a Suburban. Love convertibles, but not so much with my 5 year old in the back.

So far, the BURB has been awesome too! It's old chevy goodness in a monster truck package!

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Not being a smartass,but you guys talk like you're the only one on the road. All the common sense and sensibility is moot when it comes to all the other fools out there with their heads up their ying yang,not to mention unforeseen variable,such as a blow out,or any numbers of things. Being fully aware can help you avoid more things,but it can never eliminate all possibilities. Hey,I'm not a worry wart and not afraid to take certain risks in life. Just sayin'...

Like I said,I travelled from Maryland to the Grand Canyon,all around northern NM,SW CO,SE NV,and northern Z,and back to Maryland,s well as countless beach and mountain camping trips from Edisto Is.,SC to Cape Cod with my kids in the back in a box made of 2x2s covered in aluminum siding. And,our family car was a '90 K5 for 18 years.

Another point about a k5 vs Mustang or other car convertibles,which should be obvious,is they are far less prone to roll over than a K5 by a large factor. Add taller sidewall tires and some lift...you can figure out the rest. The only vehicles I have ever laid on the side were both lifted with tall tire 4wds and both were due to a tire issue. And yes,the tires were fairly new in tip top condition

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Tim, all good points. My comment about convertible cars was only meant to point out that new cars are sold every day with nothing to keep the car off your noggin except a windshield pillar, so the half-cab shouldn't be discounted so quickly. You've got me beat on the years of service, but between my first two K5's they were my only means of transportation for 11 years. Like you said, you can't plan for idiots and I met a few. For what it's worth, I'll share the three that come to mind.

In an 83 K5 that my parents bought new and gave to me in 87, I was on a four lane highway going low 60 mph when a car didn't see me and pulled out in front of me. I had to yank the wheel hard left to avoid a collision, there was no room at all to brake - that would have been a certain rear-end collision. All four tires yelped, but I changed to the left lane and missed hitting the car. It was all stock and needless to say I was pretty amazed.

Second time around it was the early 90's and the 83 K5 was gone but I'd brought home another one, a 76 that was still stock. The wheels were 15x8 white wagon wheels with 31x10.50 Cooper Discoverer tires and the same incident as above happened except with two buddies riding but with the same result - I had to change lanes so fast the tires hollered but I missed the guy that pulled out of the gas station on to the four lane in front of me. All this without running off the road into the median or rolling, but when the tires protest that loudly you know you pushed the limits further than you'd ever want to.

About three years later in the same 76 K5, I'm driving and my toddler daughter was in her car seat belted in the rear center of the back seat. I'd added a 2.5" Rancho lift and RS5000 shocks and new replacement rear leaf springs with new bushings over the rear block lift. The plans were for 33x12.50 tires on 15x10 wheels, but it was still riding on the 15x8 wagon wheels and 31x10.50 Cooper tires since they were brand new when I bought the truck and still had tons of miles left on them. This was another 4-lane incident and similar to the first two but with a twist. I was coming up on a slower moving Jeep Cherokee at low 60's mph, so I checked my mirrors to change lanes and when I looked up the Jeep was on the brakes and I was about to hit it. We've all been down 4-lane highways and seen the houses that line them very sporadically, and this Jeep was turning into the driveway of one. So for a third time I yanked the wheel hard left but this time the right front tire blew. I can't explain why the truck didn't roll, you'd think it should have. I guess He had bigger plans for me and my daughter.

But anyway, however you slice it, I've had three more very close calls in a K5 than I want to have had but they handled better than you'd expect. Maybe I should have said we're not talking about CJ5's or CJ7's. Or maybe I got it right the first time, enjoy them and use your common sense and you should be fine. I definitely recommend replacing or upgrading the springs, shocks, and bushings. I've done all the above to both of mine with the exception of rear bushings on the rear of my CUCV, but I have the bushings and will do the job. Even mildly lifted, they handle better than you'd think. I'm not against anyone upgrading for safety at all, but the tone seemed to be describing them more unsafe than I think they are.

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Maybe they were an option for a few more years though. My first Blazer was an 82 and it was equipped with the factory rear bar. I've seen very few Blazers with the factory bar and was surprised to see it in mine. It was probably rarely selected as most might see it as more in the way than anything. How many people plan on a rollover, right? ;)

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I wonder what the cost was for that option? It's a chunk of meat right there,and I'm sure GM wasn't giving them away. That,and the concept of "safety" these days goes far beyond what it was years ago. You wonder how we all survived. Thing is,I don't believe any less are dieing on our hiways than before. The safer they make them the worse people drive. Like what Bruiser is saying,the car won't save your life,that's up to you (as much as is in your control)

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I never did any offroading with my Blazers. Just daily commuting. They are fun vehicles. We loved driving in the snow with them. While mine were all stock suspension and tire sizes never at any time did we feel unsafe in them. A lot of highway miles were put on them too. The Chalet, now that one I'd be leary off rolling over. Looks to me she's top heavy.
Common sense or lack of has a lot to do with how dangerous any vehicle can be. And then there are the unexpected things like John experienced, 3 times no less.

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On my military Blazer I've installed new bushings on the front leaf springs but not on the rear, and you can tell a big difference between front and rear as you go over bumps. The bushings lock up to the spring and bushing eye bolt sleeves as age and rust mate them together and they quit articulating like they should. As long as they're fresh enough to operate as designed, a square K5 handles pretty dang well. Replacing spring eye and shackle bushings is necessary though.

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Wouldn't it be nice if there could be bearings in the spring eyes rather than bushings? Or,how about just some space age composite bushing or coating. I always slather with anti-seize,for what it's worth. I figure I'll be back into it on my older stuff before it's all galled up. It's a maybe on higher mileage stuff. Heck,even some crazy semi-permanent lube that lasts forever (figure of speech) would be nice. There are greaseable shackles. I'd like to have those

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That would be nice. I hate spring eye bolts almost as much as bumper bolts. I'm using the Energy Suspension lube that comes with the bushings. It is very tacky, hopefully it'll last.

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When I bought my current '89, it was a butt pucker ride home and I've driven some real junk. Bone stock, no lift but just plain wore out and junk mis-matched tires. Drove it 70 miles and it was all over the road. Rear end was so wobbly felt like it was going to go over in a gentle turn.
I installed grease-able shackle bushings and it was night and day difference. Just need to stay on them or they start to squeak but one problem I noticed is the bushing sleeve is sloppy on the bolts and there is no serrations to bite it to the shackle plate. Ended up making my own sleeves from DOM tube for a better fit.

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I forgot to mention, I order new spring and shackle bolts from Husky Spring. One of those, as long as I've got it apart, may as well...

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When I pulled the front shackle bushings out of the frame on my green truck they were so egged out they couldn't have been doing much of anything, but you can't see them behind the shackles.

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I hate the pulling old springs part. After that,I love doing suspension and axle work. I figure on cutting the shackle/spring eye bolts,and have all new hardware,shackles,and bushings,any time I pull original springs. Usually,it's the rear that gives me trouble. When I pulled the springs off my Suburban for the Jimmy it was a breeze,since I had installed them 8 years earlier and slathered the anti-seize. And,that had been new hardware

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Well, since you mentioned it.....:metal:

I found an old, factory roll bar and installed it in my 89'. It was a direct bolt in and even the footing plate below still matched the ridges in the floorpan.

I got probably 1/2" plate steel (maybe thicker) and sandwiched the connections together with Grade 8 bolts. Turned out great! I had it sandblasted and then I hit it with some paint to match a little better.

I did also pick up a front roll bar out of a 74' but the floor height is different. I'm still deciding if I want to modify that, install and then tie the two together with some horizontal bars at the top. Safer than nothing I figure! :chevy: