2 for 1 Part II...
 

You guys have probably seen my son's build that was the first part of this 2 for 1 deal we got on a couple of square bodies. There is a link in my Signature below for Korbin's Sunburn.

Well, this truck is the second of that 2 for 1 deal. We brought it home a couple of months ago and gave it a bath just so it does not look like an eyesore at the house. We really had not touched it other than a good external cleaning.

Here are some pictures:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps2jp2qkgj.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psxz09uolb.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psbgh4efzs.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...pszjdag1eq.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psupblnejl.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psqgiyresc.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...pszjdag1eq.jpg

From the SPID it is a VERY basic truck:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps0adc31a7.jpg

After a bath it did not look to bad. The body is reasonably straight and hardly any rust. The cab is good and solid. This one is actually the beter of the two, we just did not look hard enought the first time around...live and learn..
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psrcynxynu.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psq8dojt6i.jpg

Plans at this time are to get it running and driving to use as a parts hauler for now...:lol:

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Since I have a couple of project trucks, I have decided to do the basics on this one and use my "good" upgrade parts on my '65 once I can get back to it.

Korbin started to get the carpet out and clean the interior to reduce the smell and see how the floors really are:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...pshaakdigv.jpg

That was a few weeks ago.

So, the other evening my wife and I were out for our walk the other evening, I told her that I wanted to work on getting this one to make a driver/parts/trash hauler out of it. My initial plan is to keep the costs under control and REALLY low. She said OK and that got me thinking....

This week I told her that for Father's Day I did not want any gifts but to have the day to work on this thing. So, I got the green light and Korbin agreed to help for the day.

Last night I did a bit of prep work for Sunday. I got under it and disconneted most of the items from the bottom related to pulling the engine/trans.

I also placed an order for rear brake parts (minus the drums) with Rock Auto. Hardware kit, Shoes, Wheel Cylinders and Flex Hose shipped to my door for a total of $30.36. Those won't be here till next week but they will be needed. My '65 has new calipers, pads and bearing with good rotors that were turned when I started redoing it a couple of years ago along with new ball joints. Those will make its way onto this truck for now, no money out of my pocket today for those items.

This weekend's plan is to pull the engine and trans, and replace the front brakes if time allows. Stay tuned.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Good Luck! Oughta be a good little beater!

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Great deal on those trucks and to have one stored for 4 years:c2: .
I did read in the first page of the other square body build that your younger son was then 9 years old, so now he's maybe 13 ? That would give you and him 3 years to do this up for him, maybe .? Just say'in. :rolleyes:

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

I'll be watching!

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Thanks for checking in guys. I got some stuff done over the weekend, but not everyting I had planned. I'm loading up pictures now, so I will post updates later.

He will turn 13 in 3 weeks. He is not sure of what he really wants for his first vehicle. We are going to hold off a bit with starting something for him. For now, he is going to help me out on this one. We will see how it goes...:lol:

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Well got some time to work on it on Saturday too. Glad I did, since Sunday I was not able to spend as much time as I wanted. My help had worked all day before and was too tired. I finally did get some help and we got the motor out and on the stand.

Started with this:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...pshct97fsc.jpg

Ended up with this:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psrhwybqsg.jpg

The 4.3 V6 uses different mounts then the traditional small block. Here is a pic of the frame side of things:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psif1dplph.jpg

They are further back on the crossmember. The passenger side is similar to a V8 with the rubber mount on the frame bracket and the clam shell on the engine. The driver side had the rubber mount on the engine and the clam shell on the frame bracket.

Got everything labled on the harness still attached to the truck. I started removing other parts of the AC system since the front boot and engine are out. Got some cleaning to do now...:waah:

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

I'll be watching this one! Looks like a very solid start!

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

So far this truck looks to be real solid. the only rust found so far was the battery try and the two bolts holding the core support on. There is some signs of rust in the horizontal seam on the firewall in the recessed part, but I should be able to treat it and not replace the metal on the firewall.

The frame mounts for the engine look promising for doing the LS swap, but I have not taken any measurements to see what it will take. I know that I can swap out the mounts for regular SBC ones and use what's out on the market, but this is going to be a low buck swap and if needed, I can fab my own. Time will tell.

I hope to get a short amount of time this evening to measure some stuff, but today is Korbin's birthday, Owen has an All Star scrimmage from 7-9 and Katie has her gymnastics/tumbling class from 4-6. Needless to say we are kind of busy today...LOL

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

What's the story on the V6 ? Did it not run ?

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

No the V6 did not run, I found a rat skeleton in the air cleaner, the carb is full of rats nests, not even sure what had gotten down into the intake. My plan is to get it stripped down to a long block and have a look at it. That my take awhile before I get to that point. Current thinking is rebuilding it with a mild performance twist to put into my '65. Not real sure yet. I might even trade it off...

Main focus now it getting the LS into the frame rails. I know that does not sound like a low buck approach to things, but I already have the motor/trans and stand alone harness/pcm. Right now looks like I have everything I need for the swap except for maybe a fuel line or some other small item. Not sure what I will do about a speedo for now...

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

If your V6 had a carb full of rat's nest, you just know it has a block full of rat urine. You can nearly bet of trails of rust running down into the bores.

I guess I need to build me an LS powered truck just once. Everybody says an LS engine cures everything from poor mileage to male pattern baldness. But crap, dealing with exhaust manifold clearance, drive by wire pedals, computer programming and high pressure fuel systems sure doesn't seem like the slam dunk swap everyone makes it out to be. Yes, I'm sure I could do the swap, but the hassle seems significant.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

The simplicity of carb'd engines is a delight sometimes because of how temperamental the newer engines can be especially when doing a swap. I however plan to swap an 8.1 into my crew when my 454 bites the dust. I can't wait to get LOTS more HP & torque and see 10-12 mpg compared to my 6-8, lol

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

I hope what I do here on this build will answer a bunch of questions about this swap. The ones Kevin mentions are all of the ones that people seem to get frustrated about. This will be the second one I do. This one will be a bit different as I am going to do the fuel system a different way. The drive by wire pedal is not an issue for me on this one. It is from a 2000 GM Truck and has a cable throttle body. The actual cable from the 2000 gm truck will be used on this build. I plan on getting the cruise hooked up a working also. I have actuall found the LS swap to be simple and not that complicated. I did the wiring harness mods my self and it cranked and started the first try.

Follow along as I get into this one. I am out for a few days because of my job, but my next step is just getting the engine/trans in between the frame rails...Stay tuned...:lol:

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Nice start. I read all of the other build, It was a great job from both of you.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Karl, I'll be following the LS swap closely. I'm interested to see your approach. There's been multiple times on here where guys have said you can buy an LS and install it as cheaply as buying a 1300 dollar crate engine and installing it. That's sounds like horsesh1t to me but I have never called anyone out on it since I haven't personally done this swap. I'm hoping you can pave the way for some sensible and simple money saving swap tips.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

I know doing it in a square makes it a lot easier. See the "Fred" thread. Especially if you find a robbable '87 in the yards. I'll be excited to see this as well, y'all do nice work!

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

I am still bald, but my swap isn't up and running yet. Maybe there is still hope.... :lol:

Karl, I am interested to see how you do it. I have tried to do mine the poor boy way, but I broke down and bought a harness and a few other things along the way. Not 100% budget minded, but close.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

My plan is to keep a running total of what I spend and why. I will try to justify my decisions so that it makes sense to the rest of the forum in hopes that others can learn from it.

First off, thanks for the comment on my other build. I am not sure that doing it in a square is any easier (other than the EFI in-tank pump) since the front frame is basically the same for '63-'87. Some of what I will be doing to this one, will be to try ideas I have for when I do my '65.

Thanks for the compliment!

I did my harness myself following the stuff on lt1swap.com. There are some things that in the end I was not happy with. Most of it was in the way it looks and how the harness was routed around the engine/trans. I will be redoing that on this one and make it tighter/neater in my opinion. Its not hard work, but time consuming. I got more time than money for this project:lol:, but in reallity, I don't have any time either...:waah:

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

If you aren't going for the show car look under the hood, the easiest way is to use the under hood fuse block from the donor truck. It's a 3 wire hookup...12+ constant, 12+ switched and the fuel pump hot. Then there is one wire to the trans that has to be moved in the fuse block. Pretty simple.
I used the factory covers for the fuse block and mounted it to the fender.
I also used the drive by wire and hooked up cruise.

I also did a swap in a 55 nomad and modified the stock harness myself following lt1 swap.com. It's not hard just time consuming and be careful and don't accidently cut a wire that your not supposed too. Don't ask me how I know about that.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Not going for a show car look, but I do not like the look of the factory fuse box especially if your not using ALL of the circuits inside it. Takes up to much space.

I have the harness already done, I am just going clean it up a bit and re-route it some. Current thinking is to place the PCM where the auxillary battery tray would be on the driver's side front corner of the engine bay.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

I spent some time last night measuring the engine block mounting bosses relative to the bellhousing flange on both the 4.3 V6 and the LM7 engine.

The 4.3 has a distance of 9 13/16" from the flange to the rear upper bolt boss for the enging mount.

The LM7 has a distance of 10.27" per some online info (I measured 10 1/4" with my combination square) from the flange to the upper rear bolt boss for the enging mount.

Give these two distances, if I was to put the traditional clam shell mount on the LM7 engine so that the upper rear bolt of the mount is shared by both engines, that would put the new LS based engine BACK by 7/16" from where the 1985 OE 4.3 V6 was mounted.

While searching the internet, there are is not a adapter plate that makes this work with the OE 4.3 V6 frame or motor mounts. Yes, the frame mounts are different for the 43. compared to the SBC of BBC frame mounts. The readily available 3" forward mounts look right, but most are machined for using flat head screws to mount the traditional V8 engine mount.

There is one exception that I have found. The Holley 3" forward mount uses the flat head screw to mount the adapter plate to the LS block on 3 of the bolts and the upper front bolt is shared. The other 2 bolts for the traditional mount are drilled and tapped into the adapter to use a standard hex head bolt. The Holley part number is: 12622HKRUPC. Here is a picture of that adapter plate:

http://www.holley.com/data/products/...ge12622HKR.jpg

For this one to work for my idea, they need to be mounted opposite of Holley's intention. I.E. the Driver's side mount need to be used on the Passenger side and vice versa. In the picture above, the bottom one would go on the driver's side of my LM7 to make this all work. Best price I found on the net so far is about $80. I will still need to get new rubber mounts also.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Based on my comments earlier in the thread, the $80 is too much to spend on these for this project.

So, I made my own drawing and will not be using any fancy tools to make these. They could be made with a cut off wheel in a grinder and a drill/drill bits for the holes. I have a local shop making these on a plasma table for about $20 with me supplying the material. I have the material in my stash and I figured that the $20 is worth my time to not make them. These will not use any flat head bolts, so there is no counter sinking needed on them. They will be 1/4" thick. Here is the drawing:

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps4132066f.jpg

I will also need new rubber mounts for this. I looked them up on RockAuto and found them. Anchor brand, Part numebr 2435 & 2436, $5.01 & $3.36 each respectively ($18.27 shipped to my door with my 55 discount). AutoZone is $11.99 & $8.99 for the same mounts, ($22.71 out the door with taxes). I might just do the AZ ones since I am a rewards member there and it would qualify as one of my $20 purchases and they are in stock.

I will hold off on getting them until I have the adapter plates in hand and can mock up the parts with the old ones. No sense having to waste a trip and gas if this idea does not work...:lol:

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Karl, I used the left side to mount my battery, so I was able to use the factory LS cables and routing that way. For the PCM, I used the PCM tray for a 98 S10. It mounts pretty flat, so I used 1/4" carriage bolts of different lengths to get it level. The way my harness came, the TAC module plug was pretty close to the PCM plugs, so the TAC and fuel pump/fan relays went on the inner fender right above the PCM. Auxillary fuse box went just inside of the PCM. It isn't exactly car show ready, but it will work. I figured I can church it up a bit if I need to, but I probably won't.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Definitely tuning into this one. You've always been a big encouragement to me and I love Korbin's truck so I'm excited to see how this one plays out.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

:lol:Got my adapter plates yesterday. They are not perfect, but for the price I paid, I am not complaining. I can sand them down and paint, they will hardly be seen anyway.

Here they are with the stock mounts laid out on my work bench with the grade 8 bolts I would like to use. The ones with the nuts/washers are 3/8"-16 x 1". The bolts without the nuts are metric (10mm) for the one bolt that is shared by the adapter plate and the mount/clam shell.:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psc41xhij7.jpg

I put the parts together finger tight to toss on the block to check for interference with the bolts for the square body mounts and the block. Here is the passenger side on the block. The motor is on a stand and upside down since I just replaced the oil pump pick up tube o-ring:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps52lnsfds.jpg

The adapter plate does not sit flush on the block's mounting bosses. Doing a little checking, I need to change one of the bolts from a hex head to a button head or even counter sink the hole for a flat head bolt in one location on each side. Here is a pic of the offending bolt head and rib in the blocks casting. I could grind the rib in the casting, but GM put it there for a reason and I am not going to find out if it really needs to be there...:lol::
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...pswpcbthna.jpg

Today will get a couple of button head and flat head bolts to work out the interference problem and get those plates and mounts cleaned up and painted.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Got the plates countersunk for a flat head bolt in the offending locations and proceeded to clean them up and get a coat of paint on them. Cleaned and painted the passenger side clam shell while I was at it. Man I wish I had a small powder coating set up at the house. The parts where not dry before I called it a night. I will put them together today after work and get them on the engine. I'll post pictures then...

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Here is a few pictures from where I left off:
Adapter plates with Flat Head bolts welded on and painted:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps4qmcrkn0.jpg

Clam Shell mount hit on the heads of 2 bolts holding the plate to the block so I clearenced them:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps8qdmqb62.jpg

Clam Shell and Adapter bracket mounted on LS Engine block (Passenger Side):
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...pscly8sqlo.jpg

Driver's Side Mount and Adapter on LS Engine Block:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psaapnmkn6.jpg

That get's me caught up to where I started this past weekend.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Karl,
When I made my adapter plates for the 6.0 I was planning to install @ one point in time, I counter-sunk the plates & used a flat/beveled bolt for those 2 holes as well.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Spent sometime on this project this long holiday weekend. Started out on the 4th with cleaning the frame/firewall and the inside of the front boot.

Started with this:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psf7gjujzw.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps54nceogr.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psfszdifxk.jpg

You can see in this one that the left side in this pic, that I have started cleaning the white part of the firewall:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps2osqygzx.jpg

I got Owen involved taking off the small parts mounted to the firewall to make cleaning easier. We also removed the wiring harness from the fuse block that runs along the firewall:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psdyfbpvlv.jpg

We got everything cleaned and to this point before we cleaned ourselves up to go out to dinner with the family:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psyfumiixo.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psfvgygx4x.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psnupgvks3.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psmcxa6gdf.jpg

After dinner, we headed over to Home Depot to pick up some spray paint for the frame rails. I used Rustoleum Satain Black. Three cans of paint and one can of Rustoleum Rust Reformer, $21.46.

Got back home, and sprayed the frame rails to finish off the day at this point:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psh4makqvd.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psjfvbgdp7.jpg

Friday was a long productive day on this project! I am leaving the firewall alone at this point. That is the factory paint and seam sealer on there and it looks ok for this project.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Since we are in the process of selling our house and buying a different one, I spent the Saturday morning packing boxes and culling out crap in my shed to get ready to move.

After lunch the goal was to get the engine and trans mounted in the truck. Owen helped me again for awhile to get it in place. He and I got the motor on the hoist and in between the frame rails, but it would not slide over the mounts. I knew from my calculations that the motor would be about 7/16" closer to the firewall, but I thought it would still fit. Well, I was WRONG :lol:. No biggie, just take a brake and figure out what to do.

Part of what was wrong, was that the transmission dip stick tube was hitting the flange at the bottom of the firewall. I thought about jsut clearancing the flange with a big hammer, but that was too getto for this project. I decided that my plan to use the factory 4.3 V6 mounts was not going to work. I looked around at what I had on hand and remembered that I had a set of Moroso Tall and Narrow solid motor mounts in the shed. I had made a "frame stand" along time ago and these where left from that...Sorry no picture...

So, with those and an extra set of adapter plates, I made new mounts while the motor/trans was hanging on the hoist in between the rails. I bolted the trans to the crossmemeber and bolted the that in place in the frame rails. This locked in the motor/trans inplace front to back.

I removed the factory frame brackets and then removed the shell and mount from those. I put them back in place and then looked at what I had to work with. Long story short is that the motor is in and has good clearance at the firewall and the headers I will be using fit on the Passenger Side with no issues. The driver side on the other hand, hit the factory mount near the frame rail and hit my homemade adapter mount. Again no pictures of the offending areas...:waah:

Here is the clearance at the firewall:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psfdvh7zm8.jpg

Motor is setting in the frame all bolted up:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps7d4dnsni.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psi7rrhkju.jpg

Here is an in process shot at the mount I fab'd up on the Passenger Side:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psjzes8xkl.jpg

Here is an in process shot of the Driver Side, the Yellow tape is marking where the header tube is hitting:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psa49ef041.jpg


That's it for now...When Korbin came home and looked at what we had done, he questioned my thinking on using solid motor mounts for a street truck. I played along with him, but I have a plan to fix that. Young Grasshopper still has a lot to learn.

I will get a few pictures of the finished mounts when I fix the solid mount issue. I am just glad that it is in and we can put the front boot back on and mount up some rollers to move it over to the new house. We close on the new place August 1st!

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Congrats on the new house.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Thanks! Its not really a new house, it was built in 1969. But it is bigger and has a pool. Someday there will be a shop too!
Had our inspection done yesterday on it and there was no major issues with it. Only one or two items that we will ask to have repaired before closing.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

CORRECTION to a note in post #31.

I said I found a set of Moroso Tall and Narrow mounts that I used. I was wrong, they are the Moroso Short and Wide mounts.

I will be replacing them with stock style rubber mounts from a '71 Chevelle with a 307. The motor mounts are Anchor PN 2142 at Auto Zone and are $7.99 each. I just got a $10 rebate card in the mail from them yesterday, so it will be about $7.30 out of my pocket for the pair.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Subscribed.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Well I go the new mounts from AZ on Saturday and it turns out those are $4.99 each so it cost me $0.80 out the door with my rebate gift card. So I spent some time trying to install them on Sunday. I must have some hybrid Moroso Mounts as they do not match the dimensions of the Short and Wide SBC mounts or the Tall and Narrow BBC mounts. They are kind of between them sort of a Tall and Wide mount.

Neadless to say, those did not work. I am going to get the Tall & Narrow mounts today (PN 2283 from AZ) and see what works. If nothing works, then I will put the solid Moroso Mounts back in since I KNOW these fit...:waah:

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Well nothing new on this truck, but since I posted here that we were moving to another house, figure to tell you why this truck has stopped for now.

The house we had a contract to close on this coming Friday ended up falling thru because the owner did not have clear title to the house and could not get it corrected. That happened on the 23rd, so we scrambled to find a place to live since we close on out current house on the 1st. We found a new 10yr old house and finalized a contract on it this morning.

Now we just got to firgure out what to do between the 1st and the end of the August for a place to live...

Once we have every thing moved and settled in, than maybe I can put some time in on this truck...

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

I like the direction you are going with this truck. I had not read all of this build yet, so that is why I am just now commenting. Good luck on getting into your new house and figuring out what to do for the next month. Does anyone in your area do short term rents? I know someone who had to put their stuff in storage and rented a long term hotel room, but that would get crazy after the first week or so. Hope you get it figured out soon.

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

Well its been one heck of an ordeal with the house over the last month. We finally closed on our new place August 22 and started moving in. Spent our first night there on the 23, school started on the 25th for the kids ( I have a 6th grader, a 7th grader, and a Senior this year). We are still moving and living out of boxes, but that is by choice right now as we are doing some updates to the flooring and paint before we move all of our furniture into the house.

I ended up going back to the solid mounts as the various stock style rubber mounts did not work with the stands I made. I did not feel like redoing those stands to make the rubber mounts work and I was getting ready to move anyway, so I went back to what I knew worked and bolted it together. I'm OK with that...

I had a bit of time to order a few parts for this truck so I am making progress even though I have not touched it except to move it to a storage lot...
I got the following on hand for when I get back to work on it:

GATES 356240 Power Steering Pressure Hose $ 20.79
BOSCH 69225 Fuel Pump $ 52.79
SPECTRA PREMIUM / COOLING DEPOT STR01 Fuel Pump Strainer $ 2.38
WIX 33481 Fuel Filter $ 9.94

Got all these from Rock Auto, so with my 55 discount and shipping I spent $91.51 for these parts. I already had a new Spectra Tank and sender for a 1987 SWB truck, so I just need to get the fittings for the tubes on the sender to have the fuel system complete...

So, for this swap I have a total cash outlay of $111.51 not including the paint and oven cleaner I bought for the frame. I sold the TH400 kickdown harness to another forum member for $25, so I am out of pocket $86.51 so far...

Re: 2 for 1 Part II...
 

I really dislike moving. Can't find a darn thing. Right before we moved into our house my wife, stepson and myself were living in a very small apartment. So small we had to step outside to change our minds. So when we moved we really didn't have a ton of stuff to move, but almost everything was in boxes. I moved 90% of the stuff myself, after work and on a two day weekend. Finally got moved in and still four years later I'm looking for stuff in boxes that I honestly don't remember where I put this or that....lol. But I'm glad we moved at the same time. Nice to be able to work on something without your neighbor in her moo-moo staring at you like a piece of meat. Plus it is warmer in the garage in winter.