58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

New to the form. Just starting on my first build. 58 Apache. Attempting to install Flatout Engineering C4 kit. Just got the frame back from the blaster and pondering what to do next. Love the forum and happy to post my progress.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Welcome.
Should be a real nice build.
Kim

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks Kim. Lots of work ahead, hope it all goes smooth.

Jay.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Nice looking truck! Looks like you have a C-10 clip on your TF frame?? Don't think the Flat Out cross-member will work with that setup.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

JJ You are correct, that is a c10 frame. That is what came on the TF when I purchased it. It had a c10 frame, SBC 350 with a TPI a narrowed ford 9 inch and a turbo 400 trans. Wasn't real confident in what I had, so I sold everything but the body. Found an original TF frame in Wisconsin and that is what I am starting with now. Bought a wrecked corvette, so the suspension, motor and trans from the vette is going in the TF.

Saw part of your build thread. looks great, cannot wait to go thru it in detail. looks like a lot of good information I can take advantage of.

Much appreciated. Thanks Jay.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Looking forward to the build.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks Dug. Saw you thread a few weeks back. Great work. Keep it going.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

I have a similar project and considering Flatout's kit so I'll be following your build. Good looking truck.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

I ordered the kit a few weeks back. It is nice stuff. real high quality. Going to try and mock up the rear first. then move on to the front. Sounds like getting the front wheel looking correct is the main challenge. I plan on putting the entire frame together first. then taking it apart for paining. Hopefully a little warmer by then, so the painting will not be a problem. I'll try a document my progress as best I can. Hopefully you can benefit from the many rookie mistakes i'm sure I'll make. Thanks.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Nice build. Doing the same but in a AD.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks. Got thru a few pages of your build. Wow, I am simply stunned by your metal working skills. I would give my soul to be able to do anything close to that. Real nice work on the IFS brackets also. Looks as good as mine from flatout. Can't wait to look at the rest of your thread.
I have an uncle that lives up your way in Oshawa. not sure how far you are from there. nice area.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Great project and I will be tagging along. Have fun!

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks! I'm about an hour and a half east of there. Actually going to be up there next weekend for hockey.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

lexteak

Welcome to the board
i have the same vette set up - ans yes v good quality stuff --- for the IRS measure several times and mark everything -- if you are bolting it in get some good sharp drill bits .
good luck sir !!!!

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks for the info. Going to try and mock up the rear this weekend. Weather here tomorrow is 67. Might have some yard work that gets in the way. hope its quick. Saw Jim's post and he indicated the wished he started with the Front Suspension. I was going to start at the Rear. I asked Jim for some clarification. Any thought you have on which is better to start with ?

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

I would start with the front first. The vette rack sits up high on the front cross member which limits how low you can set the ride height. You have to C notch the front frame rails for the rack to go through. The amount of notching depends on how low you want your truck to sit when finished. By the looks of the IRS and rear of frame picture, you plan on installing the IRS without making new C notches. If that's the case, you should have no problem with the IFS if you install the rear first.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

I might end up notching the rear also. I'm going a little low, but not dramatic. I'm in the 8 inch range for the rockers. I'll take both F&B into consideration before I make any final decisions. Again I appreciate the info. Thanks Jay.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Got a little farther along the last couple weeks. Had a few tiny tweaks in the very front of the frame at the end. Pushed them out with a HF pipe bender. Finally found something useful for that chuck of iron. I made some levelers for my jack stands and set the frame up with a little rake. I clamped the rear in place and took some measurements. Seems the way the rear mounts you can only go so low, because the batwings will interfere with the frame. Best I could do was about 2.4 degrees rake. Not a real fan of that much rake but without any frame mods that is my only option.

Long story, but I came across a second 58, that is a fleetside. Could not pass up the deal. Had in in storage and just drug it home. It currently sits in my driveway. So I just used it to mock up the ride height and rake from the measurements I took on the frame in the garage. Fleetside vs Stepside but I think the ride height and rake with appear similar. Made a cardboard wheel and tire, because I cannot stand up the real tire in the well when it sits so low. Tires are 28'' which is what I plan on using.

Maybe you guys can give me some feedback on the overall look of the stance. First group of pics is the 2.4 ride height, then about 1.5 and finally about .5 degrees.

Cannot decide if I should go to the effort to modify the frame so I can go lower that the 2.4

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

2.5 degrees

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

1.5 degrees

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

And finally about 1/2 degree.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Here are the 2 extremes from across my street. 2.5 degrees and about .5 degrees. Something draws my eye to the more flatter look. It will be a lot of extra effort to modify the frame, but it seems the better stance.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

2.5° definitely gives it more of a hot rod look to it, but I'd have to agree with you on the attractiveness of the subtle 0.5°. Great illustrations!

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks. I wish one looked way better than the other. Then my decision would be easy. I think I'll start exploring what it would take to drop it down. The Flatout kit mounts the batwing bushings at a very specific angle on the hump in the frame over the axle. If I go with any mods I'll have to ditch those and make my own brackets. Your build is looking good. keep up the momentum.

Thanks jay.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

I like the 1.5.
2.5 is a bit much and .5 looks too low in the rear.
Kim

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks Kim. I agree on the 2.5. That means frame mods. I think I'll start planing on that. Maybe I can make enough room with the mods to have some wiggle room. then I can put the cab and fenders on the stepside and make a final ride height choice.

I wish I loved that hotrod look, it would be just a simple bolt on and go. Nothing is ever easy.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Made a little progress this weekend. Originally going to build a 4 sided boxed bridge to span the new notched frame area. Decided the back of the frame needed to have a lot modified. It needed to be boxed in, the crossmembers needed moved and there were a lot of holes I thought I might fill. So i decided to just build rails all the way back. Lot of things to still take into account, and need to reinforce the joints. For now I just tacked it so I could get a visual on the fitment.

I have a separate question about the website. When I update the post like this with progress, do I just "post a reply" or is there a better way to initiate a new update. Thanks Jay.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

I guess I should clarify, that the new frame rails will go on the inside of the existing frame. I just have them clamped to the outside to check the shape. I'll eventually cut the frame and install them from the inside of the main frame.
I might ask for advice on the joinery. Still trying to come up with ideas.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

I'm somewhere between .5 and 1.5. The longer I work on mine the more I do things to make it more level. Great presentation. dug

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Jay, good solution for the frame. Post reply is what I use to update or post to a thread. Or quick reply if I won't be including pictures.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks Guys... Dug I was just looking at your build again, and early on I see a photo of the trailblazer frame that has a pair of plug welds on the frame at a joint. Think I'll use something similar, but add a few more. Great to have all this info. Appreciated.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Nice looking frame rails.
Kim

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

I totally missed out on this build....how's that possible?? :lol:;)
Looks a nice solid truck to start with.
I like your plans with it, Lexteak.

Nice fabrication on the framerails :metal:

Surely follow along;)

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks Kees. Just getting started and trying to get some confidence. Your build looks great, super fab skills. Lots of great ideas. I'll be watching.

Thanks Jay.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Did some work over the last couple weeks. Reinforced the new frame tubes and actually got one tacked in place. Pealed the old frame back and plan on using whats left to transition old to new so it have a gradual narrowing. After all said and done I probably would have gone with just the c-notch plates I originally cut. Seems like a lot of work this way.


Some notables....

Must clean up the corner welds , they look pretty wavy. I stitched the plates on to avoid warping, so I did a lot of start and stop in the beads. caused a lot of bumps. Got to blame it on something other than my crappy welding skills. Hope some fiberglass filler will tidy thing up when its all constructed.

used existing holes in the frame for welding the plug welds. I opened them up a bit so I had a little more surface area to weld to. I added one extra hole, all other were there, left over from spring perches..etc...

I have to mount the front dog-bone bracket 3 inched up from original location. I'll add some more tube to handle that later. Talked with Don at Flat-out, he recommended moving that up to keep the angles correct.

I used weld thru primer (gold) on the new and old sections to reduce corrosion between the sections.

here is some pics, sorry if their jumbled up a bit.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

more..

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

After looking at the post, I guess I should clarify a bit. The original frame strips top and bottom will be used to tie into the new section. Thay are flapping in space right now. Just didn't want to weld anything more until I get the other side tacked. I'll put some temp cross-members in at then burn everything in. At this point it just in the proper location, but nothing is permanent.

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Looks good.
Kim

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Sure looks good!
Looks pretty strong to me :c2:

Re: 58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering
 

Thanks guys. got the other side ready to weld in. Will tackle it tomorrow. I'll send some pics when its all tied in.