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-   -   NV4500 swap installed and rollin! (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=701900)

Chevy3+3 03-23-2016 07:39 PM

NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
First I'd like to say I didn't just jump into this swap. I read dozens of other nv4500 swap threads and what I learned is that no matter how many different projects you read about none are going to be the same as your project most likely.

My '88 Chevy V30's transmission started to slip over a year ago. I decided that it would be great to have OD in a truck like mine and lower my RPMs a tad on the highway. Whatever I decided to use was going to be mated to my current 454 TBI motor under the hood. I'm not a guru when it comes to wirings so I ruled out a 4L80E with a stand alone controller (but still a great choice). The fact I already a 32 spline 6 round bolt pattern np205 t-case made the NV4500 a fairly economical swap. I stumbled onto an NV4500 on a wrecked 94 chevy k3500. The owner had the transmission overhauled and only had about 10k miles on the overhaul. He was parting the truck out and I got the 5 speed for $450 which I thought was a steal. Once that was purchased the hunt was on for the remaining parts.

I chose to find an original GM bellhousing over an AA bellhousing simply because I thought it would be easier fitting & finding parts. So I found a bellhousing & flywheel cover on ebay for a good price. Next I needed to find a pedal assembly which turned out to be harder than I thought to find an '85+ squarebody manual truck with hydraboost. The hydraboost and vacuum pedal assemblies are different. By doing some calling I found a set from a salvage yard in Georgia. It took me a couple of weeks to track that down. Now I had my main pieces needed for the swap.

Fast forward a year later when I actually had some spare time I tore the greasy mess apart. Here is a list of all the new components I had to buy new for the swap. I will give prices also along with some pics. I hope this thread can help some others who might be considering the same swap and some things I found suprising I didn't need to change.

The adapter I ordered form Advanced Adapters was kit #50-6911. That came with the spacer to go between the NP205 and NV4500. This kit also came with the bracket needed to connect your t-case shift lever back. The bracket was weak so I braced it in a couple of locations to stiffen it up. Using this kit it also required you lengthen the rod between the np205 shift rail and the shifter arm. I found I had to lengthen the rod approx. 1 3/4" to maintain the same shifter angle in the cab of the truck. BE CAREFUL.....this kit comes with all thread studs. You CAN screw them in to far into the internal gears of the t-case. Advance Adapters needs to supply the correct length studs with correct shoulder lengths to keep this from happening. Especially since they want you to use locknuts.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q..._192740734.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q..._192719032.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q..._165040388.jpg
Almost all of my parts were purchased from Rockauto because they beat NAPA's price by a decent amount. I saved almost $150 total having the parts shipped to my door instead of buying them through NAPA.

List of parts I ordered for the '88 V30
-Luk flywheel #LFW102 =$67
-Dorman flywheel bolts # 14557 = $4
-Luk Gold clutch kit #04902 = $88
-Clutch master cylinder (purchased from Oreillys) = approx. $35
-Oil impregnated pilot bushing (purchased from Oreillys) = $4

List of parts ordered for a '94 K3500 7.4 TBI truck
-Luk clutch slave cylinder #LSC118 = $25
-Dorman clutch fork pivot ball # 15155 = $9
-DEA HD trans mount # A2638HD = $13
Luk clutch fork # LF9864 = $15

I also decided the easiest (for me anyway) way to plumb the hydraulic line from the clutch master cylinder to the slave cylinder would be by using a -3AN 72 inch SS braided Teflon hose assembly with one 90 degree end and the other end straight. I purchased this off of Ebay from Gray Stone Systems for approx. $26. If you intend to use this you will need the -3AN adapter to adapt to the quick connect style fitting GM used on the slave cylinder. Russell performance makes these adapters #640281. They sell by the pair but you will only need one to connect the -3AN line to your factory slave cylinder quick connect. You will also need a fitting to adapt from your -3AN hose connection to the M12x1.0 clutch master cylinder connection. For this I went to Orme Brothers. It is a metric to AN dual seat adapter (-3AN/12mmx1.0). I was able to make all my connections and bleed the entire system out of the truck and then intall it without breaking any lines loose.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...215125_HDR.jpg

The good things that surprised me about the swap making it easier and cheaper. I was able to use my original crossmember in the original location. The NV4500 with the factory bellhousing was the same length as the th400. The other surprising thing was my drivelines did not need modified in length. Once the trans/t-case combo was installed everything else bolted back together basically. I was even able to reattach the solid rod brace that ran from the np205 to the th400 bellhousing bolt.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...905328_HDR.jpg

Then I laid my new ACC blue vinyl floor down and cleaned up my interior a little bit. One thing I DID NOT know was that no one makes a reproduction NV4500 shift boot. Mine was torn that I got with the tranny. So I bought a Dorman square boot #924-5405. I cut the factory flange out of the NV4500 boot and then cut the biggest fold off of the new boot and the nv4500 flange sat right on top of it giving it a clean look I thought. The shifter hole was a little small so I opened it up a tad and stretched it over the shifter shaft.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q..._164808877.jpg

I hope the read wasn't to long but wanted to make it fairly detailed so others could see and understand. I hope this thread helps someone just as other threads an build projects have helped me in the past. All in all my grand total for the swap came in right at $1100 including the new vinyl floor. The biggest cost factor is what you can get an NV4500 bought for.

As some of you probably notice I still have a few screws to put in the boot flanges, need to install t-case skid plate and I knocked off a u-joint cap off the front driveline so I need to get that fixed before I bolt it back up.

Chevy3+3 03-23-2016 08:03 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
I will add that my truck had 2.5" front lift springs giving me a little extra clearance to be able to use the factory GM bellhousing. The driveline clears the bellhousing by a few inches but I may look into raising the trucks height another 1-2" to make sure there are no clearance issues between the front driveline and bellhousing if I were to start twisted the truck a little in a ditch of something

mongocanfly 03-23-2016 08:20 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Good score on the nv4500..you did steal it..keep in mind that if you change the fluid in it that it takes a special fluid..very expensive fluid..only place I could find it was dealership

Chevy3+3 03-23-2016 08:23 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
A couple more pics
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q..._190737171.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q..._190819947.jpg

Chevy3+3 03-23-2016 10:57 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mongocanfly (Post 7533206)
Good score on the nv4500..you did steal it..keep in mind that if you change the fluid in it that it takes a special fluid..very expensive fluid..only place I could find it was dealership

That's the truth! I bought a couple of quarts to have on hand and top off the transmission. That purchase made me cringe

KQQL IT 03-23-2016 11:11 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
I have a 91 crew with a sm465 2wd what wouldn't I need to buy for the swap

KQQL IT 03-23-2016 11:13 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
The shift boot you used looks similar to big rig stuff. Maybe cross breed some kenworth parts.

Chevy3+3 03-23-2016 11:22 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KQQL IT (Post 7533432)
The shift boot you used looks similar to big rig stuff. Maybe cross breed some kenworth parts.

Yep it's actually a Kenworth replacement boot. I think it turned out alright

Chevy3+3 03-23-2016 11:23 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KQQL IT (Post 7533429)
I have a 91 crew with a sm465 2wd what wouldn't I need to buy for the swap

Would or wouldn't?

KQQL IT 03-24-2016 01:04 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy3+3 (Post 7533443)
Would or wouldn't?

Would not. Already has the hydraulic clutch.
Would the bell, clutch etc be the same

Chevy3+3 03-24-2016 01:24 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KQQL IT (Post 7533542)
Would not. Already has the hydraulic clutch.
Would the bell, clutch etc be the same

The bell will not be the same as the the sm465. You would need to find an NV4500 from a 2wd truck along with the bellhousing. Since you already have a hydraulic setup you would only need to buy a line long enough to reach the passenger side slave cylinder on the NV4500. I'm not familiar with the cross member used with that transmission but that may be something you would need to change also. I just can't verify that. The actual clutch on your truck should work.

Your truck would be simple to swap since its a 2wd and already has a hydraulic clutch setup

To answer your question....the list you would need to purchase would be.
-NV4500 2wd with bellhousing
-clutch fork pivot ball
-clutch fork
-throw out bearing
-a 72 inch -3an line from the clutch MC to the clutch slave cylinder
-Russell performance -3an to quick connect adapter
-a -3an to M12x1.0 dual seat adapter fittings.

That would basically be it for you. Wouldn't be bad at all I wouldn't think

Wrecked1982 03-25-2016 02:13 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
is this the original transfer case? i though later trucks had slip yoke and werent using the bracing rod on the side on the TC. although i wish i had a fixed yoke TC like you on my 85
nice work on your nv4500 swap.

Chevy3+3 03-25-2016 02:19 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrecked1982 (Post 7535182)
is this the original transfer case? i though later trucks had slip yoke and werent using the bracing rod on the side on the TC. although i wish i had a fixed yoke TC like you on my 85
nice work on your nv4500 swap.

To my knowledge this is the original t-case. I could be wrong but I thought all 205's had fixed yokes. I do know that '85+ had the 6 round bolt pattern t-case which mine would have had from the factory. When I bought this truck 2 yrs ago it appeared to be all original.

By the way thanks for the compliment. It feels so nice shifting to 5th on the highway and cruising around 65 mph at about 2k RPMs

KQQL IT 03-25-2016 02:57 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy3+3 (Post 7533556)
The bell will not be the same as the the sm465. You would need to find an NV4500 from a 2wd truck along with the bellhousing. Since you already have a hydraulic setup you would only need to buy a line long enough to reach the passenger side slave cylinder on the NV4500. I'm not familiar with the cross member used with that transmission but that may be something you would need to change also. I just can't verify that. The actual clutch on your truck should work.

Your truck would be simple to swap since its a 2wd and already has a hydraulic clutch setup

To answer your question....the list you would need to purchase would be.
-NV4500 2wd with bellhousing
-clutch fork pivot ball
-clutch fork
-throw out bearing
-a 72 inch -3an line from the clutch MC to the clutch slave cylinder
-Russell performance -3an to quick connect adapter
-a -3an to M12x1.0 dual seat adapter fittings.

That would basically be it for you. Wouldn't be bad at all I wouldn't think


Thanks, being it's got a 3:08 20 bolt under it, I'd wonder if the 350 would even pull an OD

Chevy3+3 03-25-2016 03:01 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KQQL IT (Post 7535213)
Thanks, being it's got a 3:08 20 bolt under it, I'd wonder if the 350 would even pull an OD

I bet it wouldn't like it unless you plan on running 80+ mph on the highway, lol

68Timber 03-25-2016 03:33 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
But it's a good excuse to install 3.73's.

Are you keeping the auto-trans column?

Chevy3+3 03-25-2016 03:39 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Timber (Post 7535248)
But it's a good excuse to install 3.73's.

Are you keeping the auto-trans column?

For now I had to. I have a manual tilt column with cruise but it did not have wiper delay so I just left my column in and removed the shift arm

68Timber 03-25-2016 03:52 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy3+3 (Post 7535256)
For now I had to. I have a manual tilt column with cruise but it did not have wiper delay so I just left my column in and removed the shift arm

Can you not just change the stalk? I thought the module was in the dash.

Chevy3+3 03-25-2016 04:10 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Timber (Post 7535265)
Can you not just change the stalk? I thought the module was in the dash.

Yes that is my plan at a later date. I do have a auto tilt column that needs an upper bearing and the plastic piece that hooks to the dimmer rod is broke.

68Timber 03-25-2016 04:35 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Nice work, I like the braided line and AN fittings.

DirtyLarry 03-25-2016 04:52 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Looks great! You’re going to love having overdrive

Lots of ways to skin a cat with mating a NV4500 to a NP205’s. I went the avenue of replacing the long 32 spline input on my round 205 to an early short input to avoid using the AA spacer between the trans/tcase. That also prevented the need for any driveshaft mods.

I used this input gear in my 205
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog...ear,%20205.jpg

And removed this one....
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog...put%20gear.jpg

View of how my round 205 is mounted to the NV4500 rear cover
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5537/...049cb4ba_c.jpg

USSkoval 03-25-2016 05:09 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy3+3 (Post 7535187)
To my knowledge this is the original t-case. I could be wrong but I thought all 205's had fixed yokes. I do know that '85+ had the 6 round bolt pattern t-case which mine would have had from the factory. When I bought this truck 2 yrs ago it appeared to be all original.

By the way thanks for the compliment. It feels so nice shifting to 5th on the highway and cruising around 65 mph at about 2k RPMs

'80 and newer with a single tube rear driveline got a slip yoke. Any truck with a 2-piece shaft (with a carrier bearing) got a fixed yoke.

KQQL IT 03-25-2016 05:09 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Timber (Post 7535248)
But it's a good excuse to install 3.73's.

Are you keeping the auto-trans column?


The 3:08 actually made L gear usable.

For the intended purposeof it a camaro 5 speed would probably be fine.

68Timber 03-25-2016 06:48 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KQQL IT (Post 7535325)
The 3:08 actually made L gear usable.

For the intended purposeof it a camaro 5 speed would probably be fine.

I forgot you bought that truck. If it's just going to remain a cruiser you could save some bucks and use a nv3500.

Wrecked1982 03-25-2016 08:22 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
thank you USSkoval thats the knowledge i was missing

Chevy3+3 03-25-2016 10:35 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry (Post 7535313)
Looks great! You’re going to love having overdrive

Lots of ways to skin a cat with mating a NV4500 to a NP205’s. I went the avenue of replacing the long 32 spline input on my round 205 to an early short input to avoid using the AA spacer between the trans/tcase. That also prevented the need for any driveshaft mods.
I used this input gear in my 205
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog...ear,%20205.jpg

And removed this one....
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog...put%20gear.jpg

View of how my round 205 is mounted to the NV4500 rear cover
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5537/...049cb4ba_c.jpg

From everything I read before the swap I was almost sure my t-case was going to end up rearward about 1.5" from its original location. I was pleasantly surprised even with the adapter that all my drivelines bolted back into the same spot.

I do like the thought of how you used the shorter input. Not only did it help by not having to buy an adapter it also allow the weight of the 205 to be closer to the mounting flange of the nv4500. I know the spacer only moves the 205 back approx. 1.6" but that just amplifies the weight the NV4500 has hanging on its back. I figured the rod from the t-case to the bellhousing bolt will aid in stabilizing and relieving some of the hanging stress the 205 puts onto the nv4500.

The NV4500 is a robust piece but a cast iron tail housing would make me a little more relaxed since the 205 is so hefty.

MTCK 04-06-2016 02:58 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Good looking swap. I couldn't imagine going back to no OD. Your floor laid down about as nice as mine! After wrestling with a set of 50 lbs. dumbbells and a heat gun for a couple days I accepted that's as good as it's going to get.

aharper33 04-06-2016 08:37 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Very nice looking swap. It always amazes me how easy some of you make things look. I have an '86 4 wheel drive that I have been wanting to do this same thing to.

MrTenery 11-29-2016 01:22 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
where did you find the early short spline?

v30crewcab 11-30-2016 10:16 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
amsoil fluid is half the cost of the dealer fluid, and is a better fluid for it.
the short inputs are way easier to find than the long ones.

Chevy3+3 11-30-2016 10:19 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by v30crewcab (Post 7782915)
amsoil fluid is half the cost of the dealer fluid, and is a better fluid for it.
the short inputs are way easier to find than the long ones.

Yea I'm running Amsoil MTG in it.

meatwagon83 11-30-2016 09:03 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
I'm about half way through an nv4500 swap in my c30 right now, the only custom piece I'm using is a hydraulic clutch line

boneheaddoctor 12-07-2016 02:09 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Subscribing because I am in the planning stage of mine as well.

boneheaddoctor 06-27-2017 09:48 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
If you go from a TH400 to an NV4500, the rear mount is in the same exact spot, and in my case it uses the same exact mount that the '94 Chevy the trans came out of with my '87. My swap has an NP208.

kipps 10-26-2020 01:27 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
I'll just add to this thread three years later-- :)

If you switch between a sm465 and a nv4500, with both being 4wd, the crossmember and transfer case stay in the same exact position.

SunSoaked 10-26-2020 03:43 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
So in essence:

A 465 and nv4500 with bellhousings are the exact same length? And..they are BOTH the same length as a TH400?

I'm guessing that the OP of this thread is using factory 2 piece driveshaft?

I'm thinking that the swap wasn't exactly the same because DirtyLarry didn't use the 1.625 inch spacer and he also claims everything bolted back in?

Maybe the slip joints in the driveshafts are what's making up the differences?

kipps 10-26-2020 04:08 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SunSoaked (Post 8827510)
I'm thinking that the swap wasn't exactly the same because DirtyLarry didn't use the 1.625 inch spacer and he also claims everything bolted back in?

Maybe the slip joints in the driveshafts are what's making up the differences?

I wondered about that too. But I have heard that one of the automatics(th400?) was the same exact length as the sm465.

I will confess, I didn't do a direct swap from one to the other. I swapped the entire drivetrain from a 350/sm465/np208 to a 5.3/nv4500/np241c. I measured from the bellhousing mating surface to the rear of the clamshell mount. I matched that 14" measurement on the new engine, and bolted it in with the nv4500. The trans crossmember bolted right in like it did before.

SunSoaked 10-26-2020 04:25 PM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
I'm thinking there is several ways to make the swap depending on what parts are used.

I'm getting ready to begin my swap in the next few weeks. I'm swapping the 400/208 for the 4500/AA spacer/205 t-case.

My biggest issue is determining if I need to run a two piece rear shaft due to the overall longer length because the 4500 is shorter and the 205 is way shorter due to the fixed yoke.

What is/was your setup? I'm assuming your 241 has a slip yoke?

kipps 11-15-2020 07:58 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SunSoaked (Post 8827523)
I'm thinking there is several ways to make the swap depending on what parts are used.

I'm getting ready to begin my swap in the next few weeks. I'm swapping the 400/208 for the 4500/AA spacer/205 t-case.

My biggest issue is determining if I need to run a two piece rear shaft due to the overall longer length because the 4500 is shorter and the 205 is way shorter due to the fixed yoke.

What is/was your setup? I'm assuming your 241 has a slip yoke?

Sorry, I'm just now seeing this. Yes, my former 208 and my new 241 both have slip yokes. My driveshaft is 3.5" diameter, and 53" in length between the u-joints. This does not count the length of the slip yoke. I neglected to measure that.

The reason a lot of these parts have the same exact dimensions, is because GM was swapping them in the middle of a model run. The sm465 got a different bellhousing(passenger side external slave) and an aluminum shift cover with a more rearward shift position, when it was installed in the gmt400 trucks. The rest of the transmission remained exactly the same as the one used in the 87-91 R/V trucks. When the sm465 was swapped out in the middle of the model run for the nv3500/nv4500, those two transmissions were sized to fit exactly in the vacated space. In the same way, the np241 took the place of the np208 during the gmt400 and R/V model runs. Again, it only made sense for GM to spec the np241 as an exact drop-in replacement. In contrast to this, the switch from Gen-1 small blocks to Gen-3's occurred at the beginning of a new model run. Because of this, these engines don't swap as easily. GM obviously wanted to use their former transmissions with the new engines, so the bellhousing patterns remained the same. But since they were changing the chassis at the same time as the engine, there was no need to keep the engine mounts in the same place. That got a little long winded, but it's illustrating a principle. Look at an issue from GM's point of view. If it was in their best interest to make several parts interchangeable, they probably did.

SunSoaked 11-15-2020 09:54 AM

Re: NV4500 swap installed and rollin!
 
That's good info. Makes sense. Thanks


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