paypal gift option on sales.
 

I am sure a nicely worded post will be made soon :) For now this will have to suffice.

Asking for paypal gift option as payment is a no no. Just because the site rules do not say NO PAYPAL GIFT OPTION, does not mean it is ok. To use this service, other than getting a gift is defrauding paypal, and illegal. Illegal activities and fraudulent practices are both topics in the site rules.

The pay with paypal gift deal, has been an issue for a while. It seems to be getting out of hand now. If you do not want to pay the dollar or two fees to use the service, than perhaps you should go back to using money orders.

So in conclusion, if you ask for someone to pay using the gift option you will likely find your self with a suspended account. If you knowingly pay using the paypal gift option, and then get taken for a ride, sorry.. the seller will be removed but its your own issue.

If you have an ad running now that asks for payment via gift option, you should probably edit it. Just saying :)

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Thank you Liz. I found this out the hard way guys, got a call from Paypal, YES they do monitor this stuff. Every once in awhile I need to send a couple bucks to my daughter in the US Army. Paypal stated this would end for me if I continued to sell and receive payment as a gift. They were very nice explaining this to me. I got the message loud and clear. My reason for accepting the gift payment was to keep prices low. Its the cost of speed and business I guess. THANKS for all you do on these sites Liz!! Jon

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Bump!

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Yeah, I never felt comfortable using the gift route to pay for stuff, especially since the fee was never more than a few bucks...I would just add the fee to the asking price...

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Time to explore other options or pay the fee's associated with PayPal. Start here: https://square.com/cash
I will offer Square as a payment option for my wares from this point forward as it is fee free. I will still offer PP as a payment option but the buyer will have to make up the fee's.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I just hope people don't start using bitcoins here.:lol:

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I would review the reviews a bit on square. They have been around for years.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I've been using Square for years and they charge 2.75% roughly per transaction. The fee comes out of the money the receiver is getting. The percentage has never scared me away though, money has always been transferred into my bank account in a timely manner. It's a great service but it isn't fee free so to speak.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

What I do when selling with PayPal payment. Add 3% into the selling price. This way you are covered. Plus if one pays as a gift ... PayPal will not protect you if you end up with a bad deal.

Agreed the "Gift" option for goods is not a good thing.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I have always sold items with the PayPal option for payment, but with the buyer adding 3% for fees. It is the ease for the buyer to send the money that is attractive and since I also offer check or money order they have options. I have people that short me and use the gift option, so I get burned on occasion. Or, they add the 3% for item and not the shipping fees. PayPal charges for the total amount.

As a board, all sellers should refund the improper payments and demand payment be made correctly with fees paid for PayPal, prior to shipping merchandise.

That would make us "all above the board" members in good standing!

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

The smartphone app to send $ is free, it is connected to your debit card. Try it for free and they send a real dollar to your account, also free. I choose to use it because it is free, I choose not get involved with(Square)swipe or manual credit card entries because they are not free. With 2.75%(+/-)per transaction you might as well stick with PP.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I got ya, I guess I'm behind the times on that one. 99.99% of the time I'm accepting cc swipes or direct entries from my iPad or phone.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Don't get me wrong...I am connecting a secondary debit card to the app! Square is a proven product but just in case it somehow suffers the fate that many credit card processing/merchants have as of late...at least my primary debit card/account won't be breached.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I thought we were ALL friends here............but I guess 3% is fair in most cases.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Paypal or credit cards makes no difference to me. They both charge fees, just credit cards not as much. I consider it a cost of doing business. Not accept either or to charge to do so cost business. I am not a gas station that feels the need to charge a payment fee to accept someone's business. WES

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Just my humble opinion, I find it very difficult to believe anybody that sells parts have their prices cut so close that the $2.75 cent fee on a $100.00 sale represents a loss, or for that matter a dent in the margin. If a .0275 fee on sales breaks the bank you are in the wrong business. Peace, Lee

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

All above are great thoughts and here is what I am thinking.

Yes like Wes stated, this is a cost of doing business and I would not lose a customer over it. My typical price on a restored tach cluster for a 67-72 pick up is $550.00 and 3% is $16.50 plus I usually include shipping with that price. Maybe now, I will charge for shipping. For me, there is not a whole lot of profit margin on selling restored gauge clusters for the time I invest in one. I also will take money orders as well as personal checks as long as payment is verified before shipping.

The real important thing to consider here is if you buy something from someone and pay with paypal as a gift and that person does not deliver, you have lost your money. When you pay for "goods and services" you are covered under paypal purchase protection and can get your money back if the seller does not deliver what you paid for.

Just my thoughts,
Have a good weekend,
Tom

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Personally I've been on both sides of the PayPal issue. Paypal paying the fee seems to be great for buyers but not so much for sellers. Again this is just my opinion. I have sold a mint model t door on another site well described with great pics a few months ago for 500 bucks. It was shipped and arrived in perfect shape. The guy never tired to get ahold of me instead filed a case with paypal and I was out my door plus 500 dollars for over a month while it got sorted out. I decided to refund because I was sick of waiting and needed to sell the door to pay bills. Then got my door back and resold it for a 300 dollar loss. All because he changed his mind and paypal gave him a way out. Ill likely go back to mailing money orders, but again sucks for sellers cause the "checks in the mail" only goes so far when you need the cash.... Who knows. Anyways thanks so much admin for the reminder and update.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Agree :) But will follow whatever rules if I decide to buy or sell on the board again.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I am only quoting you because you put the % on. SO please do not take this as pointing to you.

Using the gift option for anything other than gifting is fraud. Asking people to pay for sales with gifting is essentially tax evasion. There are plenty whom PayPal has gone after.

I fully understand the paying extra cutting into everything. For years this site was run out of pocket and on minimal income. "We" paid fees on any donation sent in via paypal, and taxes on all sent in via money order. It is part of business as a whole. If you know you have 3% fees, then add it to your price. It is no different adding shipping and handling etc.


As for square deal, phone ap etc. I read a little on it, not much, I do need to read more.. but it appears they have a huge complaint rate for the last year.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I've been ask by many sellers on the board to send paypal as a gift after I say I'll take it. This puts me in the position of a liar. To prevent this I add 3% and now fell ripped off by the seller. Glad to see the board moderators bring this issue up and put a stop to it. Thanks

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I will no longer ask for fees to be paid by the purchaser on a paypal purchase. I'll try to edit my posts that I have.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Why not? If you want to charge the fees go ahead. Asking for gift payment is the issue. I myself would work the dollar or two into the asking price

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Thats what I'll do. Just easier and it gives the buyer some assurance that he can have some protection. I never ask for gift payment but I can see where some people will be hesitant to purchase that way. I've been asked to do it that way and crossed my fingers. I think this is a good thing. Its gets everybody on the same page.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I will make sure my future post include the no gift wording and correct the threads that come TTT. I frequently get payments from previous customers that include the added amount or on the other side... I state a price shipped and the person adds more money on top of the quoted amount and then pays as a gift (I appreciate it too).
Although I don't depend on parts for income (I reinvest it into more parts), several people do. I can see where there is significant losses over the course of the year for parts suppliers/businesses because small parts have small profit margins.
I also understand there has been several deals gone south and that ruins it for others but like it or not it's still customer based sales and this site has the best people/customers.
The SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS I get buying here offsets the 3%. Think of the added cost as a savings privilege we get (and give) to each other.
If people have to raise their prices I'll pay it! I would like to thank all who sell on here and share their wisdom. I think the knowledge I learn on here every month is worth the $15 a month I pay. Thanks again to all!

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

The difference in hobbyist sales and vendor sales is the vendors have recourse through tax deduction for business expenses, hobbyist don't.

We all want to sell our parts for fair market value and not have to absorb the payment method of PayPal or credit card. When all the extra's are stuffed into the sale price, then many think you are ripping them off.

The payment method that the buyer chooses is for their convenience, for quick shipping etc. As stated in this thread check and money order can still be used.

The adding of the 3% fees to purchase and shipping charges is the best way to handle PayPal. That will put all specific charges on the table and in-front of "all". Thanks, Dan

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

i've always used and gotten gift payments, i hate the fees....but i understand the risk and i've never been out to screw anyone over. i guess i will no longer mention it here. no sweat.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

As a purchaser, paying an extra 3% for faster shipping is really a pretty cheap upgrade on shipping price vs. waiting for the seller to receive your check or money order. On a larger purchase I may consider sending money orders still but for smaller stuff 3% really isn't that big of a deal. Dustin

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

It is the cost of doing business and the convenience of instant payment vs. waiting on the mail. I don't ask the buyer to cover the fees I include that in my asking, shipped price. I am always a little turned off when agreeing to buy something for asking price and receive a message asking me to cover the PP fees. I agreed to a price and the seller agreed to a payment method but then wants to charge extra, no thanks. Just my 2 cents.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Should this be a sticky thread?

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I cover the fees and never use the gift option to save money. I have been saved several times by this function from otherwise highly rated sellers. The 45 days to launch a dispute for the transaction is a fair amount of time to get the issue resolved and I have used this function a few times to give the seller even one more chance to make it right or send my product. It works.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Question just for clarification. Is it acceptable for a seller to tell the buyer (in a pm only after an "I'll take it" is posted in the for sale thread) that the buyer must pay fees for a paypal transaction?

I guess if the seller offers a different option, such as an MO, well, I could see that. However, as the paypal fee is a "seller's" fee, it seems that if the seller wants the buyer to foot that bill that it should be listed in the for sale ad before the deal is made.

Or, life would be simpler if the seller decided that, if $10 is his bottom dollar, then he'd only sell it for $10.59 via paypal in order to actually get $10 out of it. But I know it is acceptable for a seller to ask the buyer to pay fees up front - and that's fine with me, absolutely don't mind doing that. But I believe the intention of paypal is that the seller list a price that is acceptable to the seller that includes the seller paying the fees (i.e. the $10.59 for sale example).

Anyway, as stated, I don't mind paying the fees at all as a buyer if a seller states it up front. My specific question is whether or not it's ok for sellers to add buyer must pay fees after the "I'll take it" is posted in the thread by sending a pm to that end. This has happened to me several times, and I do the math and pay the fee as requested, but it's math the seller could have done and added to the price in the first place - or, at a minimum, told me up front so I could do that math and know what I'd really be paying. All comes out in the wash, I'd pay the same either way. But I have to admit I don't like the added cost in a pm after a "price" is agreed to in the thread. Seems it's the seller's responsibility beforehand. No big deal on a $10 part. Big deal on a $1000 part.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

How I normally handle this is when they ask for a total with shipping I add it into the total price with shipping it makes it simple and the seller does not have to keep adding costs to the overall price. If the seller has a lot of parts that he has priced reasonable to be sure to move them quickly they can start losing quickly what little profit is being made. I learned the hard way that I can't eat all the costs. But I do not give a price and then add to it.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

Guess I have a follow-up question on this then. So, if your items are listed for "$XX + shipping" and someone says "I'll take it" in the thread - and you then tell the buyer "the total is $YY" (and that total actually includes shipping and paypal fees)), isn't the buyer now paying the seller's paypal fees without even knowing it? Or, do you tell them that "the total is $YY, which includes shipping and paypal fees"? (which, to me, would be finding out after committing to buy the part and pay the shipping that you are also paying fees).

Seems it would just be easier to list the item as "$XX + shipping + paypal fees" up front.

Personally, I prefer to list items as "$ZZ shipped CONUS" - that way, the buyer knows the total up front - and the seller could have rolled anything he wants into the shipping, etc - shipping doesn't even have to be accurate - the buyer just has to assess if the price is worth the cost, and then commit. No back and forth to every zip code in the country and no extra work for the seller to determine the individual shipping costs. If one lives in FL and lists something as $ZZ shipped, he'll probably make a little more profit if the buyer is in FL than if the buyer is in WA. As long as the seller determines his shipped selling price to make his desired profit and still ship to the furthest point in CONUS, he's covered, no place to go but up. And the buyer is happy to commit to the price he sees listed if it's worth it to him.

Don't get me wrong, NOTHING wrong with listing something as price + shipping, that's the norm. I'm not sure I'm convinced about adding paypal fees into a shipping quote unless it's stated in the ad, otherwise it is finding out after committing, or, worse yet, not at all. Not all buyers ask for the shipping quote when they say I'll take it - they just pay the number the seller comes back with after the commit, which should only be shipping, if the item is listed as "$XX + shipping".

My 2cents only. I have no problem with someone asking me to pay their seller fees - I just want to know I'm doing it, before I say "I'll take it".

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I'm with Jocko pretty much all the way. I list most of my stuff with a shipped price so the buyer knows exactly how much it will cost to the door, no surprises. I have backed out of a purchase when told I was expected to pay PayPal fees, not for the extra cost but on principle. When an item is listed at $z or $z + shipping and then told it would be more I'm not into it. Just add a bit more to the asking price up front.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

So if I buy a part from you why should I have to pay extra cost on shipping because you figured it going further than it is ? If as a buyer I would possibly only have to pay 12.00 shipping I certainly wouldn't want to pay 24.00 because you figured shipping it across the country. How does it look when someone gets a package and they were charged 24,00 and they see on the package you only had to pay 12.00 ? And anytime I pm I tell them it includes pp fees, the seller should not have to consume the cost.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

I will also back out of a purchase if the buyer wants PP fees added after I agree to buy. If you want paid thru PP, then time to adjust prices before listing. Anyone on here that says that the fees eat to much of their profit should not be buying items to flip. Maybe time for some of these guys to go work in the real world....

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

In a "$XX Shipped" scenario, there is no "charged $24" part to your equation - it is fiction - when is the buyer ever told it will be $24 shipping? - not sure what you're talking about. The buyer simply sees the $XX shipped price stated in the ad, decides whether it's worth it, and commits. When it arrives and there is a $12 shipping stamp, he knows that the seller made $12 less than what the buyer paid for the item - but he probably doesn't care because he agreed that the shipped price stated up front was worth it to him. End of story. If the buyer wants to fret over how much the seller made, well, that's his choice. The risk is all the seller's. You're not paying more for shipping because you live further - you're paying an agreed up front price for a shipped item, period.

This reminds me of a recent purchase on Craigslist from a very elderly couple. I bought a set of tractor fenders for $300. The seller took the fenders to a distant rural post office and got an estimate of $120 to ship them. No paypal involved. I said, ok, I'll send you a cashier's check (seller's preference) for $420. They were concerned that the shipping might possibly be $417-418 and I'd be over-paying - and I appreciated that, BUT, because this transaction was taking forever, I tried to explain to the seller that I was ok with that, the fenders are worth $420 to me - so just consider it an additional $2-3 profit. It took a while, but they finally got it - and it saved them yet another trip to the rural post office. What would have been 3 trips was now 2, still a pain for them.

There's nothing wrong with a "$XX shipped" sale. The seller assumes the risk that someone FAR away buys it. He has to be ok with that. The buyer just has to be ok with the stated price total up front, and he knows what he's getting into. Can't run a business this way on ebay, no, but thank goodness we amateurs can on here. (EDIT: actually - ebay sellers do it all the time - you can be certain that a FREE shipping listing makes up the shipping cost in the price)

Still, telling someone after they've committed to a purchase that, oh by the way, you've included paypal fees in the shipping is indeed telling them after the fact and adding a cost to the purchase they didn't expect - and, not to mention, a cost that is legally the responsibility of the seller in PayPal's eyes. As multiple folks have posted, they have backed out when they're told something similar after an I'll take it post on principle. I'm guessing here, but I'd be willing to bet that folks that back out on principle MIGHT have still said "Ill take it" if the sale price stated $XX+shipping+pp fees" in the ad - that would have eliminated the principle that caused them to bail - no surprises after the sale.

Paypal fees are a seller responsibility, not the buyer's. If a seller doesn't want to pay them and states the buyer must in the thread, well, that will work I guess. Still seems easier to just raise the asking price by the amount of the fee for what you'd like to receive and just run with that, but that's just me.

Again, the administrators have already established that it's perfectly acceptable to have the seller state that the buyer pay the fees, and I have no problem with that either. What I don't like hearing is that I have to pay them afterward in a pm. I've learned a lot in this thread, glad I took the time to read it.

Re: paypal gift option on sales.
 

To me, it doesn't matter how someone lists something for sale AS LONG AS it is clearly listed up front. Give me the opportunity UP FRONT to decide if I want it. Saves a lot of headache. Because of the shipping rate variations I no longer do a shipped price. I have spent money to send people parts in the past because i would rather hold to my word on price stated. With all the online calculators it is not that hard or time consuming to get a pretty accurate cost within a few bucks. I have a shipping account with UPS so if I have a complete address I can tell right to the penny what it will cost to send. If i only have a zip it generally short changes me on shipping a few bucks unless I guestimate more in to it. Depending on the item it could mean the difference between making the sale or not.
I charge the same for the part regardless if MO or paypal since MO I have to take the time to get it cashed.