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INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio etc
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in this thread I would like to share with you my trials and tribulations and the learning process of tuning my beloved '74 small block Chevy using the Dual Wideband Oxygen Sensor(s) Gauge Kit setup from a company called INNOVATE
now I haven't done this procedure before so don't be cruel, I've also haven't been able to find any proper info on the Web or YouTube specifically for tunning a carburated Chevy Small Block SBC especially with dual exhaust, so I will try to be as thorough as possible to share what I learn and discover but I hope for this to be a bit of a polite back and forth, where questions get asked and answers are given so first a glossy stolen pic or two from the INNOVATE website of what I will be buying First Disclaimer: now there might be some redundancy and word overlap with my long Restoring Rusty thread so that's why I started a new thread just for this topic I am going to spew a lot of terms, name brands and part numbers to make sure people in the future who are going to be looking for some information on this topic can find it, so after a while just gloss over the repetitive nonsense like below DLG-1: Dual Lambda (Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio x 2) OLED Gauge P/N: 3891 LC-2: Digital Wideband "Lambda" OČ Controller (only pic one below) P/N: 3877 P/N: 3884 P/N: 3881 MTX-D: Dual Function Vacuum/Boost & Shift Light Gauge P/N: 3851 Disclaimer #2: I am not affiliated with INNOVATE in any way, again this is for informational purposes only I am not pushing their product on anybody |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
First let me say that it seems like this company INNOVATE went out of their way to make the information on their website beyond confusing, I spent nearly two years trying to crack their parts and devices code, ha ha
so here is a layman's translation INNOVATE makes two types of gauges / tools / devices what ever you want to call them 1. the FIRST kind are the portable type this is where you buy some equipment and keep it in a case, when your buddy shows up to tune their car you bust out the black box from the carrying case and you temporarily shove a BOSCH oxygen sensor in the tailpipe and you read the screen on your INNOVATE black box and press buttons on that black box to make things happen ~ we are not going to be using this type ~ 2. the SECOND or other type of gizmos they make are permanently installed in your car or truck, so you weld a round bung (ie threaded nut) to your exhaust pipe and screw in the BOSCH oxygen sensor in there for good, then you permamently install the round gauges in your dash so the equipment stays in your truck ~ this is the stuff we'll be using now they make #2 above in different flavors, you can get their analog guages or you can get their digital gauges I opted for the digital ones. Also in addition to making analog and digital gauges they make what I would call "smart" gauges and what we could call "dumb" gauges, more on those later, we will be using both kinds, smart gauges have some computing / processing abilities built in, inside the gauge, dumb gauges rely on an external "helper" box, sometimes called a controller sometimes called SSI-4, or TC-4 don't worry about it just yet that's important to grasp, if you got it, you are on your way, if you went and got another beer instead, no worries we won't let you fall behind |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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so most INNOVATORS out there buy a single gauge / single oxygen sensor kit for their motorcycle with a single exhaust pipe or their Honda four banger again with a single exhaust pipe and that's all they need
but its a bit more involved with two tail pipes, you need a fancier gizmo, if you want to see how both banks are doing and do it right and this DLG-1 kit aint cheap, it's $400 large that's why it took me nearly 2 years to finally get one, well I finally found one on ebay for $318 and FREE shippin' so I jumped on the bargin |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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Well what comes in this sacred kit bro?
DLG-1: Dual Lambda (AFR) Gauge Kit - includes: one "smart" DLG-1 gauge two Wideband Bosch LSU4.9 OČ sensors (these are standard $40 dollar sensors they (INNOVATE) sells you for $80 bucks, ha ha two 8 foot long sensor cables (cause you can't connect the standard BOSCH sensors directly to the gauge for some reason) LC-2 Wideband Controller (the little black box the size of an iPhone) this is the secret sauce of the DLG-1 kit, more on this later, when the secret is revealed two OČ sensor weld-on bungs (made from mild steel thank goodness instead of stainless, unless of course you got stainless exhaust pipes, ha ha) Black/Silver bezel (pretty silly optional plastic round ring if you don't like the black one you take that one off and put on the silver one to impress all your Tunner Boyz) (yeah with a Z) Black/White faceplate, same goes for this as the bezel above Serial program cable (a totally outdated serial cable which is all but useless without a serial to USB adapter (not included mind you) to hook up the "smart" gauge and or the controller box to your laptop or [ahem] PC Installation manual (four pieces of 8.5x11 pieces of paper folder in half and stapled together type a thing) and don't forget the INNOVATE decal, yeah a sticker |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
QUALITY OF PRODUCT = Excellent
ok right wen you unbox this stuff you can feel it is made very well, in other words this is a quality product, it doesn't feel flimsy to the touch it feels bulky, and hefty and all the connections clip into each other perfectly, now I didn't plug it in yet nor have turned it on, this is just a quick feedback on the appearance of the product, cause you fellas know what I am talking about, sometimes you take that new part out of the box and you git that "I ain't puttin this on my truck, the boys would laff me out of the fishing hole if I showed up with this piece of junk on my precious rig" know what I'm a sayin' (I'm lookin' at you JC Whitney, ha ha) |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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lets just go over how this stuff plugs into each other below you will see that "Marketing" picture (again) of that fancy shmancy dual oxygen sensor Air Fuel ratio gauge (man that's a mouthful) see how it has two cables / wires coming out of it, so you take two oxygen sensors and you plug them into that dual guage - Job Done, right? ~ WRONG ~ |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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I peaked into the DLG-1 Documentation / Manual before buying this thing (again cause it was so darn expensive that I spent nearly 2 years window shoppin', ha ha) and I was more confused than a goat on astroturf
cause you can see for yourself in the diagram below that this gauge only has one SENSOR CABLE CONNECTOR (the other wires are for something else, the Red/Black/Yellow/White are for hard wiring it for ground and power and the dim switch, standard stuff, the Serial In & Out that's something else entirely, more on that later, but it sure aint for the second O2 sensor) now you may think geez man why you making a big deal out of this, obviously it works some how, well I think it is important to conceptualize this as it will help you / us when we build up their entire Diagnostic System, you just wait and see, follow along for now, please |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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ok, so you take one Oxygen Sensor and you plug that in directly into the Gauge?
~ WRONG ~ |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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actually you have to use an intermediate sensor cable, (now I have said this before and I will say it again, I have no idea why they didn't just allow you to plug the sensor directly into the gauge) now I know they will argue that well we did not know how long your run was going to be so we give you a 3 foot intermediate cable, or an 8 foot intermediate cable, or even I think an 18 foot intermediate cable, but why not make the default the out of the box be the 3 foot cable? I rest my case
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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ok, yes the plugs are different, but they could have easily terminated the cable from the gauge with the big standard Oxygen Sensor type of plug
anyway I am not complaining just being an engineer and asking questions that's all, an RE (Redneck Engineer - that is) didn't you ever take something apart to see how it works, it's that type of thing couple close up pics of the different plugs / connectors, they aren't the best pics but you get the idea that they don't mate |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Well how on God's green earth you get that second Oxygen Sensor connected then?
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Please stop!! Way more than I wanted to know and who cares?? This is another case of you over stating the obvious.
I think you should see someone about your excessive/compulsive disorder. Really,I mean it. |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
:lol:
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Updates? I want to see how well it works out!
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
I'm in
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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so to connect the second oxygen sensor (O2 sensor) to the "dual" air fuel ratio gauge you first need to connect the small black box called a controller
but you can't just plug the Output plug of the controller into the input of the gauge because you see both plugs are FEMALE, you have to use their proprietary intermediate cable, which has two male ends on it, hey they gotta sell you some cords I guess, to me that's as logical as hitting yourself in the head with a hammer cause it feels good when you stop |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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after you connect the CONTROLLER to the GAUGE (ie daisy chain them) then you connect the second Oxygen Sensor (O2 sensor) to the controller, once again using their other intermediate sensor connector wire
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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so in the end their "dual" Air Fuel Ratio Gauge aint dual at all, it only has built in intelligence (ie its own controller) to handle one oxygen sensor input, all it does or all it has the capability to do is display two sets of numbers, ie A and B, but in terms of displaying the second read out it acts like their "dumb" gauges which needs an external controller to operate
now this is either brilliant or a sham depending how you look at it, but I took you through this drill, because you can see how this works, and if you understand it you can see that the possibilities are endless, for example there is a guy who is using two of these "dual" gauge kits to monitor each one of his four cylinders on his Honda Civic, think about it, that is very cool I could for instance buy 3 more of these dual gauge kits and monitor all eight cylinders, now for a street car this is overkill, but for someone who is serious about racing a non computer equipped vehicle, this is genius and very cool another way to go at it would be 8 dumb gauges with 8 of those little black box controllers and monitor a V8 engine that way, very cool stuff below is how things will be connected once installed, whole lot easier to conceptualize it on the kitchen island than all tangled up under the truck in the engine bay, and behind the dash, I'm sure you'll agree |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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now than on to the INSTALLATION
the most challenging part of the installation are the oxygen sensors because you have to weld in their bungs, I say this assuming most of us don't own a welding machine, I recently bought one and will be welding in mine, but you have a choice to take your vehicle to a muffler shop and have them weld in the bungs or you could buy these special strap bungs that don't require welding and all you do is drill a hole and just clamp them around the exhaust pipe I strongly recommend welding your bungs in, as the slightes leak will skew the O2 read outs a step drill prooves very useful when it comes to making a 1" hole - Harbor Freight $20 bucks |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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no excuses but I learned welding outside in 100° F with the sun over your head is no picnic as you're welding helmet is always dimmed cause of the sun and the reflection - sux
I decided to weld the bungs into the cheaper ($30 dollar) header collectors rather than in to my more expensive ($300 Hooker headers) |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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the recommended position for the oxygen sensors is between 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, if you were sitting in my truck my driver side one is installed at the 1 o'clock position and the passenger side one at the 11 o'clock position, so both are leaning a bit towards the center of the truck, having the oxygen sensors installed like that prevents moisture and or crud from collecting at the sensor point, which doesn't take much to get messed up and give you a miss reading
the BOSCH O2 sensors come pre gooped so you don't need to put additional anti sieze on them Note: you should never start / run your truck with O2 sensors installed but not hooked up to a power source, that is one sure way to ruin them, they need to be powered up so they get pre heated properly |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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after the O2 sensors were installed it was time to find a permanent location for the DLG-1 dual AFR gauge
the second hole is for the digital vacuum gauge I will buy next month to complete my basic tuning set, the vacuum gauge will log RPM also giving me the essentials: RPM, AFR, and Vacuum once I have the vacuum gauge I will install both gauges more better ie flush with the front of that rectangular opening, so the current setup is temporary |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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after you have the components where you want them it is time to marry the gauge with the controller, INTERFACING they call it, you only connect the gauge to the controller, you do NOT connect anything else, so no oxygen sensors at this time
then you turn the key to power them up next you hold down both buttons on the DLG-1 gauge for 5 seconds (I am not a big fan of these types of Mario Brothers hidden level tricks, but we do what we are a told) nothing really happens on the gauge display it starts off reading E2 / E2 and ends with the same display |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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the next step is Oxygen SENSOR CALIBRATION
the interesting thing here is that you calibrate the sensors out of the exhaust pipe, in other words with the sensors in free air is what they call it |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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finally we get to install the oxygen sensors
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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the gauge will cycle from the HTR / HTR reading to the CAL / HTR as it calibrates the first sensor than to CAL / CAL with both sensors calibrated and finally show a AFR ratio 22.4 / 22.4
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
I'm in for the trip. Might as well try and learn me sumthin.
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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Now before I share my AFR readings with you allow me to introduce you to my carburetor as it will be the focal point of these tuning exercises
like most trucks mine originally came with a spread bore Rochester Quadrajet (spread bore meaning the two holes in the front under the carb are smaller than the two holes in the back of the carb) and I must admit the more I learn about carburation the more I respect the design of the Quadrajet (and yes it is probably the most misunderstood and mis configured type a carb out there, ha ha) anyway I just had to have a Holley so I went out and bought one, a Classic Holley they call it, and at the time I thought all Holley carbs were created equal, well sure some had manual chokes and others had electric, some had vacuum secondaries others had mechanical secondaries, and there were the two barrel and the four barrel, but isn't a Holley carb a Holley carb, well no, more on that later So I ended up with the 4160 Model - pronounced not as good as the 4150 ha ha You would think if the 4150 is a good carb than the 4160 must be better, no, that's apparantly not how it works, I think Holley built on the success of the highly tunable 4150 and offered us (common folk aka amateur daily drivers) the "economical" 4160 My Classic Holley Specs Model: 4160 Part Number: 0-80457SA (S for Shinny, A for Aluminum) Main Jets: 65 Secondary Metering Plate: Main Hole 0.055, Idle Hole 0.026 Barrels 4 Booster Straight CFM 600 Choke Electric Circuit 2 Fuel Inlet Single Secondaries Vacuum Throttle Bore 1.563 inch |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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without preaching about carbs, let me point out the difference between the 4150 carbs and the 4160 as it may effect our tunability capabilities, and even require us to convert our 4160 into the 4150 (it's duable folks)
in technical terms, what's the difference? well simply put the 4150 has something called a metering block in the front (between the front float bowl and the main body) and another one in the back (between the rear float bowl and the main carb body) (a metering block is what holds the main jets, etc) a 4160 only has one metering block in the front, and something called a metering plate in the back (you can't screw in different jets into a plate, hence the limitation you have to swap out the entire plate but its not the same granularity as you would have with changing jets) first pic is of the metering block (thickness of a wallet) second pic is of a metering plate (thickness roughly that of a credit card) |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
we're going to be looking for optimal Air Fuel Ratios in four different throttle positions
1. Idle - completely no foot on the gas pedal (truck is idling in the garage or you're sitting at a red light), think Idle Mixture Screws 2. Cruising - we are traveling at highway speeds foot resting on the gas pedal holding it steady, sometimes refered to as Part Throttle 3. Accelerating - stepping on the gas pedal, all the way up to WOT - Wide Open Throttle, think Accelerator Pump, Power Valve and Main Jets 4. Decelerating - letting off the throttle |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
ok. waiting.
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Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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IMPORTANT: the vehicle must be fully warmed up first, so this is after letting it sit and idle in the garage for 15 minutes (it would have been better if I took it for a short drive also, but I was blocked in the garage by other vehicles, blah blah blah) Idle = 10.6 (Left Bank aka Driver Side) / 11.00 (Right Bank aka Passenger Side) Gentlemen, this is not good, this is too rich. But keep in mind my truck runs great and drives great, heck it even sounds good. Hmmm makes you wonder The goal is between 13:1 and 14.7:1 with the highest vacuum you can get at idle. |
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took the Geek to the next level, and connected my Netbook to the AFR gauge, this allows me to not only log the data and graph it, but you can create virtual gauges on the computer so if you want you can tap into your Tach and see RPM, very cool
it beats asking your buddy to ride shotgun and take notes as you drive your test circuit, ha ha |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Interesting. I purchased two analog gauges. I said schme to datalogging, but now I'm thinking twice. I'm not sure of mine can log or not, but being able to log WITH rpm seems pretty important.
(I was thnking of using the buddy method for initial tuning) |
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Idle Circuit Adjustments
I had four things to check / adjust to make sure my Idle AFR was in the proper range: 1. Float Levels 2. Idle Speed Screw / Transfer Slot 3. Idle Mixture Screws 4. Idle Air Bleeds |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Setting the Float Levels
My 4160 carburetor does not come with site glasses (pronounced: sucks) so I had to unscrew the site plugs in the float bowls and see if any gasoline was pouring out (similar concept to topping off a manual transmission, you fill it with fluid until it just barely pours out of the filler hole type a thing) So you adjust the Adjusting nut and Lock screw on the top of the float bowl, than you rock the truck a little bit with your hips and you watch the site plug for the fuel level, rinse, lather, repeat my float levels were good |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
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Adjusting the Idle Speed and Idle Mixture simultaneously (it really takes Two To Tango here)
so the recommended starting point for most carbs is 1.5 turns out from bottomed out, in other words Idle Mixture Screws all the way screwed in, mine just happened to be set there - one and a half turns out they were Note: my four barrel carb has two Idle Mixture screws one on either side of the front float bowl, some fancier carbs have four Idle Mixture screws, two in the front float bowl like mine, plus two additional screws in the rear float bowl as well my truck was set to idle at 700 RPM - aka the Idle Speed screw (which does not just control RPM but opens / closes or hides and exposes something called the transfer slot(s) (ubber important) the recommended setting is .020" or making the slot look like a little perfect square (Note: it is over exposed in the picture below, in other words it is too large) the pic below is just an example it is not my actual carb |
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twisting and turning the Idle Mixture screws and the Idle Speed screw is a bit of an art and a science as one may and does effect the other
TEST 1 - I set my Idle Mixture Screws only 1 turn out AFR Reading: this improved my ratio from 10.6 to 11.6 RPM: this raised my revolutions from 700 to 900 ok, cool, now what? well the engine was now idling a bit too high (for my taste anyway) so we dropped it using the Idle Speed screw back down to 700 RPM, noting that the AFR stayed the same |
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well things were better but I kept going
TEST 2 - I set my Idle Mixture Screws only 1/2 a turn out AFR Reading: this further leaned out my air fuel ratio from high 14s / low 15s (a bit too much) RPM: this is where it gets interesting, my revolutions dropped from 700 to 600, wait a minute, last time we leaned things out and the revs went up, and this time we leaned things out some more and they dropped? yup, that's how it works, once you pass the sweet spot the carb tells you it aint happy any more |
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
so lets do one more try
TEST 3 - I set my Idle Mixture Screws about 3/4 turn out AFR Reading: this put my air fuel ratio at around 13.5 RPM: revolutions landed at 750 I was happy with that for now so I took the truck for a test drive and to log some data |
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