Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz
I am not understanding why you are sounding annoyed with us. We stepped in to end this giant cluster and attempt to help the folks get what they are owed. Yet we are the bad guys?
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Liz, never for a moment did I say you were the bad guys, nor am I annoyed with you or intend to sound that way. My only interest in the thread at this point is accuracy and fairness, not taking sides. I was trying to paint an
accurate picture of what happened. Believe me, no one wishes more than I do that I hadn't suggested the group buy in the first place, and I would like it over as soon as possible. Having said that, here's what I know:
- Colin took orders for wheels at near-cost as a favor to us, not as a money-making venture. The difference between actual cost and what we paid offset differences in shipping costs, etc. There was no profit motive. How do I know? Because I set the prices to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest when Colin was doing us a favor. I still have all of the correspondence related to this if you need proof. He wasn't acting with a profit motive. As far as I'm concerned, he wasn't acting as a vendor any more than if I asked my buddy to pick up an alternator while he was at the parts store and I reimburse him for it and maybe give him a buck or two extra for gas money or a "keep the change" kinda thing. Money changes hands between my buddy and me, but no one would call him a retail outlet. That's what Colin did, just on a larger scale with more disastrous results.
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- Even the local cops and the FBI need a search warrant to get business records. As much as it seems at first blush like Colin should just willingly turn over the list of people who bought wheels in this deal and that doing so would just make the problem go away, in reality that's not a reasonable request. Even if it were, as Colin said, without access to his account here it's nearly impossible for him to match up the names of real people from order forms with their handles on the forums and I'm sure you don't honestly expect him to turn over all of his sales records. As a private citizen, I'd be horrified to find out a business had turned over my purchasing history to someone without my consent, particularly to other private citizens and not even law enforcement. Even the Patriot Act doesn't cover what you're asking Colin to do. That's not him being shady; that's him being a good business owner and protecting himself, his business license, and most importantly his customers' privacy.
There are a lot of problems here, and I know you're trying your best to help. But individuals need to come forward and say what they're missing, or they need to pursue the matter on their own (as I did). I deeply appreciate your efforts as the owners of this forum to help those who are missing product, but you can't possibly expect greater policing powers than actual law enforcement has.
The new batch of wheels are due out in 8 days. Until then, no one (including me) is going to get any more wheels. Here's a compromise that may well solve the problem: give Colin back his account for two weeks. That will give him the ability to communicate with anyone who has sent him a private message about missing wheels. Place conditions on how he can use his account: he can only use it to respond to PMs and to reply to this thread, not to post elsewhere on the board. By the time two weeks is up, new wheels should be shipping and he should have tracking info for everyone who has purchased. If at that time there are still serious issues, then take it from there. In the meantime, suspending his account has cut off a primary line of communication between him and the people you're trying to help.
Again, I'm not taking sides here. I'm not pointing fingers or trying to make anyone the bad guy. I'm certainly not defending Colin's actions (or inaction) except insofar as I want everyone to have an
accurate picture of what happened and be on the same page. I simply want it resolved as much as anyone, and I'm trying to help. With that said, there's nothing more I can do here. I've tried my best to paint an accurate picture of what really happened and what needs to happen to resolve it. Take it for what it's worth. It's just my own advice and opinions, not demands or complaints about the way the site is run or the people who run it.
Good luck,
Brent