Beginner tools

[Matt_50]

I would like to try and get some of my dings and dents out and use as little bondo as possible.

I need to find some basic body tools. I'm not sure what I really need... and what makes the brands so different? I know electric and air tools can be very different but what brands are considered ok for hammers and dollys?

I've been searching on youtube.. I'm feeling fairly confident on small stuff. Anyone know of any really awesome youtube videos?


What do you guys think of this set? Do I need more than what this offers?

https://www.eastwood.com/performance...BoCoxcQAvD_BwE

[mikebte]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

I would like to try and get some of my dings and dents out and use as little bondo as possible.

I need to find some basic body tools. I'm not sure what I really need... and what makes the brands so different? I know electric and air tools can be very different but what brands are considered ok for hammers and dollys?

I've been searching on youtube.. I'm feeling fairly confident on small stuff. Anyone know of any really awesome youtube videos?


What do you guys think of this set? Do I need more than what this offers?

https://www.eastwood.com/performance...BoCoxcQAvD_BwE

That is a good price on body tools. My preference is wood handles. My advise would be to purchase your hammer and dolly set, practice and test your ability's. What you can't get perfect, add some filler.

[mr48chev]

Matt, I just don't think you will be happy with those hammers for long. The dollies are fine but the hammers leave a lot to be desired. I still use the Craftsman body hammer i bought back in the early 70's but have a lot of others I have bought over the years. i bought the set they have on for 54 a year or two ago and that is a nice set. The handles take some getting used to when you are used to wood handles but they have a nice balance and feel to them and the dollies are nicely polished. https://www.eastwood.com/7-pc-econom...s-handles.html

I'm always on the lookout for old body tools at yard sales, estate sales and flea markets and swap meets. I've found some good ones and some bargains on some nice dollies over the years as a lot of people have no idea of what they are or what they cost.

[Matt_50]

What am I looking for in hammers? Balance?

[franken]

Matt,
I'll send you a set like in your original link for the price of a USPS flat rate box. The handles are pine and the quality is low but you can use them to learn.
Anyone who wants to use hammers and dollies needs to do some studying and understand what's going on. There's a little old book called "the key to metal bumping" that's a good read. It's small and just ~100 pages. You can find PDF versions you download or buy one ($20 or so shipped).

https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/mtf-bfb/overview/
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7wf...pPRWloc28/edit
http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploa...ody-repair.pdf

[Matt_50]

Thanks, I'll pm you.

[Matt_50]

I think I'm googling to much. Lol

Are there any special dollys I might need because of the curves?

[_Ogre]

lol... same offer for my hammers free to anyone in need of a case of little peckers

the only bodywork i did on truk was reforming a crushed fender and lip
body hammers didn't even touch the heavy metal in tf truck
i ended up using two 5 lb sledges, one flat and one with the tapered end

[Matt_50]

What's recommended for areas you can't get behind? Like a few inches from the back window..

[mongocanfly]

I got a combo set of Maddox from cardboard frieght...they're good I guess for beginners...but from what I've read quality hammers are priceless...
Things you can't get to from behind you'll need slidehammers and dent puller or stud gun.....

[dsraven]

the key to metal bumping is a good read because it tells how to start getting the original shape back after a hit. it is old and relates more to the old vehicles but metal doesn't know that. shows tecniques for removing high spots etc.
a stud gun works pretty well for places you can't reach. you can recover some of the costs if you sell it when done.
if you can get something up in the backside and have a buddy hold it you may be able to get some of he dent out. you can use some light heat to warm it up, like enough to make steam, then quench the area to shrink it. that is after the major dent is removed. there is also some glue on stuff that may work to pull with. put some pressure on the middle then tap around the outside.
think of body metal like a cookie sheet full of play dough. it is maleable. if the sheet were to have a bump in it and you put a little pressure against the middle of the bump to push it down, while tapping the playdough around the outside of the bump, pretty soon the bump would be gone and it would all be the same level. metal does the same thing if you put pressure down against the high spot (hold the dolly there) while tapping around the outside of the area (with your body hammer) some of the stretched metal returns to where it came from. you could also do the reverse where you hold the dolly against the outer perimeter and tap the high spot down slowly as you work your way around the crown. try it on a piece of scrap metal.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

I would like to try and get some of my dings and dents out and use as little bondo as possible.

I need to find some basic body tools. I'm not sure what I really need... and what makes the brands so different? I know electric and air tools can be very different but what brands are considered ok for hammers and dollys?

I've been searching on youtube.. I'm feeling fairly confident on small stuff. Anyone know of any really awesome youtube videos?


What do you guys think of this set? Do I need more than what this offers?

https://www.eastwood.com/performance...BoCoxcQAvD_BwE

To follow what the other guys have said, DO NOT buy that kit, it is utter junk. I had something similar years ago, I ended up keeping one of the hammers for closing paint cans, I BROKE the hammer closing a paint can one day! Does that tell you how good something like that is? A paint can!


This hammer in the photo, it was given to me by my ex-wife for Christmas, and I am using it out in the garage on my truck daily lately.

ONE quality hammer and a "Toe" dolly is all you need to get most done. But having a rounded head hammer is also pretty useful. But if you spend your money on some quality old used hammers on ebay or something you are WAY better off than buying cheap.

This another one of my favorites, they are not cheap but I have one like this that I have had for those same 40 years. https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BON...item590e042472

This is the thing, if you buy quality tools, they will always be worth what you paid. Think about it, that hammer above, it was about $10 new, now it's $40, a cheap tool, just throw it in the garbage when you don't want it anymore. The quality tool you can always sell.

Brian

[OrrieG]

In 1973 at the Ft. Hood hobby body shop the old timer hooked me up with my basic pecking hammer and a simple dolly. Do not know the brand but suspect it is pro grade because the balance and feel is excellent. Along to way I have picked up others at estate and garage sales. I do have a set of harbor fright ones I go for doing rough work, but do not like them, they are "head heavy" and just don't fell right. For getting to hard to reach places I picked up a long curved dolly.

In my dads stuff I found a pre WWII auto repair manual that has lots of good stuff on basics and fixing pretty extreme damage from the time that people would work to do it rather than replace (remember it was during the depression).

Most important lesson the old guy at the hobby shop taught be was to take time to figure out how the damage occured because you need to reverse it in the same order. Some times just a few soft blows can make the difference. He hated bondo and made me work over 100 hours on my VW van pecking, shrinking, etc. before putting on a thin coat in a few areas. If you thing a vw van is a simple box you are wrong, every panel is a compound curve and it is work to not get flat spots. It was at the end of my enlistment so we shot three coats of red oxide primer and I went on my way. A few months later I gave it to a guy to block and paint, he said it was good enough that there was only a couple of places he had to go back and build up a few mils of primer to get it right. Here is a poor photo of the results. I still have an old fender around I use for practice when I haven't been at it for a while.

[Matt_50]

Having to shrunk metal is because it gets kinda stretched when dented right? Is shrinkingbonly needed if damaged badly? Special tools?

[_Ogre]

why don't you post a pic of the panel your trying to fix
ogre is not a body guy, but many here can teach you how to fix it
though two 5lb sledges did do well enough to get my fender ready for paint

[franken]

I replied to the PM. Basically a USPS medium flat rate box plus $2-3 for tape and the drive.

Yes, they're junk, but good ones are expensive new and used. This way you can play, then toss or give them away when you give up on bumping, or move up to good stuff.

When metal is stretched by bending it, one side is stretched and one not. Picture folding a piece of cardboard in half: /\. The outside (top in the ASCII art ) edge is stretched. Now try to gently straighten it by pulling the ends. So if you have a dent in a fender with a crease in the center, the inner part of the crease is stretched. If you have creases at the outside, then those outer creases are stretched.

For relatively flat areas such a door, where it's pushed in a bit, even a large dent might pop out, and return to it's original shape. Most of the metal wants to spring back to where it was--that's why you don't start beating on the center of a dent.

No need to worry much about shrinking until later. You'll do more damage than anything. One thing to add is shrinking disks. They provide localized heat to high spots to shrink them.

Take a piece of scrap sheetmetal and smack it with a hammer. You have a dent. Flip it over. You have a hill and that's the stretched metal.

BTW, youtube, much like the internet is full of bad info.

The point is that metalwork is part science and part art. You really need to study and the key book is the best. Read it more than once.

[Matt_50]

Lol I need to read the newest post before asking similar stuff in PM. I have a few small dents, and a bad spot in my door. Biggest concern is a fender, I'll get a pic up.

Yea, YouTube can be iffy, I like trying to find stuff by companys.. there are some from Eastwood.

Thanks for the info guys. I get ahead of myself on new things... I'll start with small dents, I have a scrap hood and cab to practice a little on. If I make anything worse I'll ask for some help lol.

[Matt_50]

Ok, kinda hard to see. Dent in fender, and something at some point was dragged against it or PO scraped something... you can see the line. As for the door... I haven't gotten the lead out yet.

I'm thinking this is considered easy... and maybe a good start for me.

[MARTINSR]

You need to take one of these and just "Move into the neighborhood" of auto body and you will get her all fixed.

The net is so amazing for learning stuff like this. Take some good photos of one of those dents and start a thread on how to repair it.

Brian

[mr48chev]

I have to agree with Brian there, a bit of watching some videos goes a long way. Also start out on a junk fender that has some dings in it and work on it to learn how metal moves when you do this and when you do that.

[Gippetto]

A good video series: search "restolad" on YouTube. Excellent tech, explains what and why. Has lots of experience and learned trade from his dad. From New Zealand, so you will learn to fix the 'dints and not use alot of bog".

[dsraven]

here is a couple of small tips that may work for you
go to the parts place and grab a couple of sheets of, say, 80 or 120 grit sandpaper strips. they are in the autobody section. they are a couple inches wide and almost a foot and a half long
on the way home stop at the dollar store and grab the biggest chisel tip felt marker you can find
go home and cut a piece of plywood just a bit shorter than the strips and the same width, so you can wrap the strip around each end and then staple the strips to the wood on the back side. i know, they sell a nice little plastic handled hand sander for this but, the sander is foam backed and is flexible so if you are trying to get a flat surface it doesn't work as good as a flat hard piece of wood. the foam will lie to you by conforming to the shape easier, especially if you apply a bunch of pressure. just let the board float over the surface so you don't really remove any steel, you will just be scratching the surface to find the high spots
sand the paint and rust off the area of the dent with whatever you have for that purpose. some guys will simply sandblast the whole part. this will usually leave a rough surface so plan to sand the whole thing if this is the case for you. if using a disc grinder with some sort of abrasive disc be careful not to heat up the area and cause stretching etc, and go a bit past the dent, say, a couple inches all around. a wire wheel will also cause a lot of heat build up in a concentrated area, so this area will naturally bulge from the expansion of the steel due to heat. be careful on the edges of the dent if using a disc sander, you can quickly remove steel on the high spot of the edges
when done the above, slowly sand the area of the dent with the board. just let the board glide over the surface with little pressure. you will see where the sander has touched and where it has missed by looking at the sander scratches
do your hammer and dolly tricks. use the "hammer off dolly" by placing the dolly on the crown of the dent on the back side and then use the hammer all the way around the outside of the dent while you apply pressure from the rear against the dolly. work your way all the way around the dent with light strikes to help the metal move back where it should be. use the sanding board periodically, as you see fit, to find the low spots
when you think you have it good, run the felt pen over the area to cover it completely
now re-sand lightly with the board. keep the board oriented the same direction as the body lines on the car, even if you are sanding up and down instead of left to right, keep the board oriented the same way. use a cross hatch pattern on the sander so you don't end up digging furrows, not as critical if working with steel only, but if using this tecnique later with body filler it is very important. your low spots will show up easily as the dark spots of marker that didn't get sanded off. don't use the marker on filler, by the way, there is paint for that and marker has a tendency to bleed through the paint if there is any left on the surface
if you use a crosshatch pattern, or sand up to the left this time, do some hammer work, then sand up to the right next time, you can see the contrast in the sanding lines without using the marker. a can of spray laquer also works using a very light mist coat and dries fast but tends to plug up the sand paper
when you get it really close to totally flat, when the low spots are quite small, some would use a shrinking disc to shrink the high spots, or, flip it over and run the shrinking disc on the back side to shrink the low spots, which are actually high spots on the back side.
when choosing a body hammer take a look at the surface. a flat surface is probably not really flat. they usually have a crown in them. for rough work a heavier body hammer is nice but if it has a sharp edge to the surface you can make new "dents" with the edge of the hammer head and that is just making a new job for yourself later when finishing.
when done the bodywork, prime the area with epoxy primer before doing any filler. this will seal the steel before adding anything else. body filler is porous so if you put it next to the steel it can cause a rust issue later.
so
clean steel, paint removed in dent area
do hammer and dolly
epoxy primer
filler, sanded to contour
high build primer (like spray on filler without the gooey sandpaper filling mess)
sand to remove scratches and fill minor imperfections
spray high build
sand
high build
sand until you get the look you want. use some wax and grease remover to totally soak a rag and wet the surface when you think it is all good. put a bright light at one end of the vehicle and check the reflection in the surface when it is wet from the grease remover. you will see any imperfections just like a fresh paint job will show. if you have ripples then you are using too short of a sanding board or your finish sanding board is soft so it conforms to the surface high and low spots too easily, or you are not cross hatching enough or you are applying too much pressure when sanding or......
epoxy to seal when done to seal all the different products against the new paint, especially if you plan to drive it for a bit or park outside. not all primers are waterproof, some are porous and if not sealed then the moisture will go right through and start the rust process

just a few thoughts, hope it helps

[Matt_50]

Thanks guys.. I'm starting to get a little excited to try all this. It would feel nice to know I learned a little bit of bodywork on this truck.

[Matt_50]

Mr48chev, I decided to order the set in your link. A good step up from a cheap set. I've been looking up what makes a good hammer and dolly set. Balance, curves, weight, sharpness or bluntness of the ends... etc etc. YouTube people comparing the good brands to cheap ones. I think I have a little better understanding of the tools themselves.

So.. they are ordered, and I hope they are good and forgiving of a beginner.

[MARTINSR]

I have to tell you, I play guitar, have for years. I had cheapie guitars my whole life, my mom started this run with one bought with Blue Chip stamps (I still have it.)
The first time I played a quality guitar, it was a real Fender Stratocaster I was blown away at how EASY it was to play! OMG that thing was sexual!

There can often be a BIG difference with the quality tools in how they make our work come along easier.

Brian