Numbers matching? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

mahanian · 03-04-2008, 12:20 AM

Ok, I searched previous threads and wasn't able to come up with a clear answer to my question. I recently bought a 67 C10 CST shortbed fleetside that was an old farm truck here in AZ. The truck is completely rust free and seemingly 100% original. According to the build sheet in the glove box, it was pretty well optioned including bucket seats, hub caps, A/C, power steering, wood bed, CST package, push button stereo, HD springs, and the 327/turbo 400 option, the biggest engine available in 67 on a C10.

The truck is completely unmolested, except for one problem...I can't verify that the engine block is numbers matching. I want to return it to prestine stock condition, but want to verify that the engine is the original first. The engine looks completely stock including the old canister oil filter but the spot in front of the passenger side head is blank, no date code or VIN stamping. The canister oil filter leads me to believe that the block hasn't been replaced since it wasn't offered after the early 69 production year. Is there a different location that the blocks were stamped with the VIN number?

**Hart_Rod** · 03-04-2008, 12:22 AM

What's the casting number on the back of the block (driver side)? Pictures would be nice also.

R

dan42 · 03-04-2008, 12:26 AM

You'll never know for sure, but you can get a good idea, like hartrod says, pictures would be good - the cannister doesn't mean much - someone had put an old 283 in my '67, and it had a cannister.

**HOTFUN** · 03-04-2008, 12:33 AM

The blank pad will be a mystery but another good id is after you find that cast block number on the rear block shelf behind the distributor is to try and capture the casting date also on the rear. To be correct it will have to be from 8/66 to about 8/67 cast. You can also check the intake to see if it matched the block date era generally a week but Vet rules allow about 4 weeks difference. You can also id the heads but this is cast between the valves under the valve cover.

sameyrasmea72 · 03-04-2008, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahanian

..... Is there a different location that the blocks were stamped with the VIN number?

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't think truck engines had the vin # stamped on them like alot of the cars from this era. I think they had the three digit suffix code and the date stamped on the front of the block.

ChevLoRay · 03-04-2008, 01:54 AM

There will be a series of letters, two or three, at the end of the "stamping" that will be significant to specific year, transmission and emission equipment. There are several sources of reference for these codes, but you won't find any VIN contained within the stamping on these engines. It wasn't until '71 or '72 that they had the 17-digit Vehicle I.D. numbers, anyway. On my truck, the two-letter code at the end of the engine ID number says it is a '69 block, and would be correct for my truck. It is, in fact, the original block.

BurnoutNova · 03-04-2008, 02:02 AM

you will NEVER be able to prove without a doubt that your block is the exact block it left the factory with, without the partial VIN stampping on the block. if its not there you can only assume its original from the casting numbers on the block and heasds and the casting dates.

its probobly safe to say there the original parts, but there is always the possibility theve been changed.

mahanian · 03-04-2008, 02:44 AM

Thanks for the feedback. The engine is pretty dirty so I may have to wait till I pull it out of the truck and clean it up to see the casting numbers.

I guess my question now is has anyone seen a 67 C10 with the partial VIN stamped into the block in the location just in front of the passenger side head or was there always something in this spot, even if it didn't include the VIN?

sameyrasmea72 · 03-04-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahanian

I guess my question now is has anyone seen a 67 C10 with the partial VIN stamped into the block in the location just in front of the passenger side head or was there always something in this spot, even if it didn't include the VIN?

If the block has ever been rebuilt or bored over the is a very good chance that the #'s you are looking for on the pad area have been honed off or ground off during the rebuild process.

**HOTFUN** · 03-04-2008, 02:55 AM

The 67-72 trucks never had the VIN or even partial stamped in the pad boss on the front of the engine. The stamping will have engine plant code, the month and day digits of engine assembly and a two or three letter code which is easily looked up in the GM parts book to verify the engine size and things like A.I.R and tranny types that it was assembled with. If the casting date codes and the casting block number are correct and it meant enough to you there is a number of specialty shops that can stamp the correct numbers on that pad. They do it on Vettes Chevelles and Camaros all the time.

mahanian · 03-04-2008, 03:09 AM

I guess my next step is to pull all the casting date codes and numbers to see if everything matches up with the build date of the truck. Then I will check to see if the block has been bored. If it is the original engine I would like to restamp the pad boss, but only if I am convinced it's original and only if it looks legit afterwards. I would like to show the truck when it's finished.

What would I look at on the Turbo 400 to verify it is the orginal tranny? The build sheet documents a turbo 400, but I want to check it as well

toms68cst · 03-04-2008, 03:34 AM

I ran all the numbers on my 68 327 when I had it rebuilt a couple of years ago. I was able to confirm that the major engine components were correct for my truck. Everything came up correct except for my water pump.

Get a good chevy casting numbers book and disassemble your engine. I had fun researching my engine. It's also interesting to understand how the chevy small block has changed through the 50 some years it was produced.

mahanian · 03-04-2008, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toms68cst

I ran all the numbers on my 68 327 when I had it rebuilt a couple of years ago. I was able to confirm that the major engine components were correct for my truck. Everything came up correct except for my water pump.

Get a good chevy casting numbers book and disassemble your engine. I had fun researching my engine. It's also interesting to understand how the chevy small block has changed through the 50 some years it was produced.

Thanks, that sounds like my best option. Did your block have info stamped on the boss pad?

dan42 · 03-04-2008, 05:10 AM

It's on the passenger side front if it hasn't been ground off, and it looks like the first picture. The second picture is the casting number on the back of the block.

71 super · 03-04-2008, 06:00 AM

The trans should have a tag on it that indicates the build date and other information. I ran into this when I did my 71 Super- when I took my original trans in to trans guy he said the drum? in the early 400 spun/slipped and were not as strong as later ones- in any case I ended up buying and rebuilding a later one

mahanian · 03-04-2008, 06:09 AM

I just bought a book of casting numbers for 55-93 motors but my intake doesn't match anything in there...now I'm really confused. The casting number on the intake is 3882858

Ok, I googled that casting number and it looks like it's for a 283. Guess the truck is going to be a resto mod now instead of a numbers matching restore

odog · 03-04-2008, 07:43 AM

I had a wierd thing on my 67 K20. I went to find the numbers stamped on the front and there were none. I got the truck from my father in law and didin't know if it was original, rebuilt or what so I asked. He said his dad bought it new in 67 and never had anything done to the engine. I never thought about it again until now. I just assumed the factory left that spot blank on that model. Now I will have to do some investigating. I was going to rebuild it then decided against it when I checked the compression. All but 2 cylinders where 150 lbs and the 2 that wern't were 145 lbs. Not bad for an original.

mahanian · 03-04-2008, 08:27 AM

There is no telling with these old trucks. The intake casting number on my truck is supposedly for a 66 Chevelle or Nova II with a 283 (no other vehicles listed), but the date code is 1967.

roger0080 · 03-04-2008, 08:28 AM

The only way you can verify that the engine, trans, carb, rear end are all the ones that came with that truck off the production line is via the Protect-o-Plate that came in the warranty pamphlet with the truck. On that Protect-o-plate are the codes from that match those components on your truck. Other than that you will never know 100% that the stuff you have is the original that came with that truck.

Sport/Truck · 03-04-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger0080

The only way you can verify that the engine, trans, carb, rear end are all the ones that came with that truck off the production line is via the Protect-o-Plate that came in the warranty pamphlet with the truck. On that Protect-o-plate are the codes from that match those components on your truck. Other than that you will never know 100% that the stuff you have is the original that came with that truck.

How does this work? I have the protect o Plate and had a hard time tracing mine. 65-72 chevytoys helped me figure it all out....it wasn't easy when the truck was ordered in 1970 and the owner took delivery in 1971!
s/t

stope4 · 03-04-2008, 09:15 AM

If your engine cast date lines up with your Tag date, assume they belong together and leave it be. There's way too many folks restamping engines and getting lots of things wrong. Then there's people out in the real world who are experts at stamping and can spot a restamp a mile away. The minute a restamp is spotted, it brings up all kinds of questions on the trucks originality and your word and usually runs a buyer off. Most Camaros that are restamped don't get sold as original for this reason. Don't know about Corvettes but I bet they are under more scutiny than camaros. I would bet if the block cast date lines up and the heads and intake id and cast dates line up, you have a pretty good chance that they all belong.

03-04-2008, 12:20 AM	#1
mahanian C10 addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,432	Numbers matching? Ok, I searched previous threads and wasn't able to come up with a clear answer to my question. I recently bought a 67 C10 CST shortbed fleetside that was an old farm truck here in AZ. The truck is completely rust free and seemingly 100% original. According to the build sheet in the glove box, it was pretty well optioned including bucket seats, hub caps, A/C, power steering, wood bed, CST package, push button stereo, HD springs, and the 327/turbo 400 option, the biggest engine available in 67 on a C10. The truck is completely unmolested, except for one problem...I can't verify that the engine block is numbers matching. I want to return it to prestine stock condition, but want to verify that the engine is the original first. The engine looks completely stock including the old canister oil filter but the spot in front of the passenger side head is blank, no date code or VIN stamping. The canister oil filter leads me to believe that the block hasn't been replaced since it wasn't offered after the early 69 production year. Is there a different location that the blocks were stamped with the VIN number? Last edited by mahanian; 03-04-2008 at 12:22 AM.

03-04-2008, 12:22 AM	#2
Hart_Rod ************* Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 17,835	Re: Numbers matching? What's the casting number on the back of the block (driver side)? Pictures would be nice also. R __________________ Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 03-04-2008 at 12:23 AM.

03-04-2008, 12:26 AM	#3
dan42 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cali Central Coast Posts: 5,191	Re: Numbers matching? You'll never know for sure, but you can get a good idea, like hartrod says, pictures would be good - the cannister doesn't mean much - someone had put an old 283 in my '67, and it had a cannister. __________________ '67 SWB Fleetside ZZ4/350/Tremec 5-speed/4link/Scott's IFS - and fun as heck! SOLD Click here to support the board Philippians 4: 6-7 Last edited by dan42; 03-04-2008 at 12:26 AM.

03-04-2008, 12:33 AM	#4
HOTFUN Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 2,142	Re: Numbers matching? The blank pad will be a mystery but another good id is after you find that cast block number on the rear block shelf behind the distributor is to try and capture the casting date also on the rear. To be correct it will have to be from 8/66 to about 8/67 cast. You can also check the intake to see if it matched the block date era generally a week but Vet rules allow about 4 weeks difference. You can also id the heads but this is cast between the valves under the valve cover. __________________ '66 CST BBW swb fleet 327 fac ac '67 CST 4x4 swb 327 stepside project '72 Cheyenne K20 50k original '72 Cheyenne Super K20 project '73 Sierra swb 4x4 frame off in paint stage '74 Cheyenne Super swb w/16k actual '71 & 72 Cheyenne K10 4x4 swb's '70 426 HEMICUDA conv SHAKER 4 sp Dana 60 '60 Impala conv 327 PG fac ac loaded 3rd owner '72 GMC K2500 4x4 '59 Apache CST BBW fleetside swb 283 '73 ElCamino SS LS1 T56 true SS bucket tach '76 ElCamino SS 52k survivor '87 Grand National 41k True 2nd to last built in 1987. '86 K30 454 SRW fleetside CA since new '88 Trans Am GTA 39k bought new 2018 DEMON plum crazy @ 840HP! "Need for speed"

03-04-2008, 01:54 AM	#6
ChevLoRay Old Skool Club Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Benton, AR "The Heart of Arkansas" Posts: 10,880	Re: Numbers matching? There will be a series of letters, two or three, at the end of the "stamping" that will be significant to specific year, transmission and emission equipment. There are several sources of reference for these codes, but you won't find any VIN contained within the stamping on these engines. It wasn't until '71 or '72 that they had the 17-digit Vehicle I.D. numbers, anyway. On my truck, the two-letter code at the end of the engine ID number says it is a '69 block, and would be correct for my truck. It is, in fact, the original block. __________________ Member Nr. 2770 '96 GMC Sportside; 4.3/SLT - Daily driven....constantly needs washed. '69 C-10 SWB; 350/TH400 - in limbo The older I get, the better I was.

03-04-2008, 02:02 AM	#7
BurnoutNova Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,057	Re: Numbers matching? you will NEVER be able to prove without a doubt that your block is the exact block it left the factory with, without the partial VIN stampping on the block. if its not there you can only assume its original from the casting numbers on the block and heasds and the casting dates. its probobly safe to say there the original parts, but there is always the possibility theve been changed.

03-04-2008, 02:44 AM	#8
mahanian C10 addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,432	Re: Numbers matching? Thanks for the feedback. The engine is pretty dirty so I may have to wait till I pull it out of the truck and clean it up to see the casting numbers. I guess my question now is has anyone seen a 67 C10 with the partial VIN stamped into the block in the location just in front of the passenger side head or was there always something in this spot, even if it didn't include the VIN?

03-04-2008, 02:55 AM	#10
HOTFUN Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 2,142	Re: Numbers matching? The 67-72 trucks never had the VIN or even partial stamped in the pad boss on the front of the engine. The stamping will have engine plant code, the month and day digits of engine assembly and a two or three letter code which is easily looked up in the GM parts book to verify the engine size and things like A.I.R and tranny types that it was assembled with. If the casting date codes and the casting block number are correct and it meant enough to you there is a number of specialty shops that can stamp the correct numbers on that pad. They do it on Vettes Chevelles and Camaros all the time. __________________ '66 CST BBW swb fleet 327 fac ac '67 CST 4x4 swb 327 stepside project '72 Cheyenne K20 50k original '72 Cheyenne Super K20 project '73 Sierra swb 4x4 frame off in paint stage '74 Cheyenne Super swb w/16k actual '71 & 72 Cheyenne K10 4x4 swb's '70 426 HEMICUDA conv SHAKER 4 sp Dana 60 '60 Impala conv 327 PG fac ac loaded 3rd owner '72 GMC K2500 4x4 '59 Apache CST BBW fleetside swb 283 '73 ElCamino SS LS1 T56 true SS bucket tach '76 ElCamino SS 52k survivor '87 Grand National 41k True 2nd to last built in 1987. '86 K30 454 SRW fleetside CA since new '88 Trans Am GTA 39k bought new 2018 DEMON plum crazy @ 840HP! "Need for speed"

03-04-2008, 03:09 AM	#11
mahanian C10 addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,432	Re: Numbers matching? I guess my next step is to pull all the casting date codes and numbers to see if everything matches up with the build date of the truck. Then I will check to see if the block has been bored. If it is the original engine I would like to restamp the pad boss, but only if I am convinced it's original and only if it looks legit afterwards. I would like to show the truck when it's finished. What would I look at on the Turbo 400 to verify it is the orginal tranny? The build sheet documents a turbo 400, but I want to check it as well Last edited by mahanian; 03-04-2008 at 03:10 AM.

03-04-2008, 03:34 AM	#12
toms68cst Registered User Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Bismarck, ND Posts: 4,277	Re: Numbers matching? I ran all the numbers on my 68 327 when I had it rebuilt a couple of years ago. I was able to confirm that the major engine components were correct for my truck. Everything came up correct except for my water pump. Get a good chevy casting numbers book and disassemble your engine. I had fun researching my engine. It's also interesting to understand how the chevy small block has changed through the 50 some years it was produced. __________________ Unrestored 68 C-10 CST. Original 327. 4-Speed CH465. 50k or so miles. TREASURER, Drum Brake Club.

03-04-2008, 05:10 AM	#14
dan42 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cali Central Coast Posts: 5,191	Re: Numbers matching? It's on the passenger side front if it hasn't been ground off, and it looks like the first picture. The second picture is the casting number on the back of the block. Attached Images __________________ '67 SWB Fleetside ZZ4/350/Tremec 5-speed/4link/Scott's IFS - and fun as heck! SOLD Click here to support the board Philippians 4: 6-7

03-04-2008, 06:00 AM	#15
71 super Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Canton North carolina Posts: 3,078	Re: Numbers matching? The trans should have a tag on it that indicates the build date and other information. I ran into this when I did my 71 Super- when I took my original trans in to trans guy he said the drum? in the early 400 spun/slipped and were not as strong as later ones- in any case I ended up buying and rebuilding a later one

03-04-2008, 06:09 AM	#16
mahanian C10 addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,432	Re: Numbers matching? I just bought a book of casting numbers for 55-93 motors but my intake doesn't match anything in there...now I'm really confused. The casting number on the intake is 3882858 Ok, I googled that casting number and it looks like it's for a 283. Guess the truck is going to be a resto mod now instead of a numbers matching restore Last edited by mahanian; 03-04-2008 at 06:32 AM.

03-04-2008, 07:43 AM	#17
odog Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Wendell, Idaho Posts: 608	Re: Numbers matching? I had a wierd thing on my 67 K20. I went to find the numbers stamped on the front and there were none. I got the truck from my father in law and didin't know if it was original, rebuilt or what so I asked. He said his dad bought it new in 67 and never had anything done to the engine. I never thought about it again until now. I just assumed the factory left that spot blank on that model. Now I will have to do some investigating. I was going to rebuild it then decided against it when I checked the compression. All but 2 cylinders where 150 lbs and the 2 that wern't were 145 lbs. Not bad for an original. __________________ 1969 4x4 Nothing beats a good rock drill and some dynamite

03-04-2008, 08:27 AM	#18
mahanian C10 addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,432	Re: Numbers matching? There is no telling with these old trucks. The intake casting number on my truck is supposedly for a 66 Chevelle or Nova II with a 283 (no other vehicles listed), but the date code is 1967.



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03-04-2008, 08:28 AM	#19
roger0080 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Carver County, Minnesota, USA Posts: 626	Re: Numbers matching? The only way you can verify that the engine, trans, carb, rear end are all the ones that came with that truck off the production line is via the Protect-o-Plate that came in the warranty pamphlet with the truck. On that Protect-o-plate are the codes from that match those components on your truck. Other than that you will never know 100% that the stuff you have is the original that came with that truck. __________________ 72 Chev C-10 90% restored (former AZ truck) ... 71 Chev K-20 Cheyenne my vacation crusier... 72 Chev C-10 Now retired and striped after many faithful miles... 72 GMC 1500 Retired to the junk yard after bought new in '71...

03-04-2008, 09:15 AM	#21
stope4 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 434	Re: Numbers matching? If your engine cast date lines up with your Tag date, assume they belong together and leave it be. There's way too many folks restamping engines and getting lots of things wrong. Then there's people out in the real world who are experts at stamping and can spot a restamp a mile away. The minute a restamp is spotted, it brings up all kinds of questions on the trucks originality and your word and usually runs a buyer off. Most Camaros that are restamped don't get sold as original for this reason. Don't know about Corvettes but I bet they are under more scutiny than camaros. I would bet if the block cast date lines up and the heads and intake id and cast dates line up, you have a pretty good chance that they all belong.

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