Advice on Flare fittings needed

[MASTERBrian]

Trying to clean a few things up on my 1960 Suburban, but I'll admit I'm not real knowledgeable on the fitting for brake and fuel lines, etc.

Is there some really easy way to know what is what on these? My concern is the type of flare and the angle and do they get any sealant or put together as is. I feel pretty confident on ability to now tell if double flair or not, but it's the angle and such. I'll try to explain the areas I'm working on to break it out...

1st, Brake lines....this shouldn't be a HUGE issue, because I'm trying to just buy pre-made lines and then bend them to fit, but just in case I get in a bind, I might have to make a few. For the front, I bought CPP's stainless steal kit. Still trying to figure out how to correctly lay it out, but I think I'm making progess. Then there is the line that goes from front to back, it exits the frame rail by the engine. It had a kink, so I pulled it out to repair/replace....it was about 49-1/2" long, I bought a pre-made steal line from O'Reilly's and I'll just bend it. If too long, I'll either work another bend into it (hopefully making it not look rigged) or I'll try to buy a shortened line for the next one in line. If that doesn't work, I'll have to cut it and flair a line. The CPP kit has everything, I believe, to tie into the factory line going to the rear, so shouldn't be anything there, UNLESS I opt for a different Master/Booster than their's and have to make something up. The rest of the truck will likely be stock fittings.

The stock appear to be double flare, are they 45*? Do they get any thread sealant? I'm thinking brake lines get nothing, but I watched a video where someone put something on them....makes me curious.

2) Fuel lines, going from pump to tank, I think everything is just barbed to accept hose at a few connections to compensate for flex, so should be fine on those and I've figured out how to make a nice barbed end on steel tubing. I can't however get it to flare...maybe with some more work. The issue here is I have two different fittings from pump to carb, let's call them A & B.
Fitting A, At the pump takes a Tube Nut, inverted flare, 3/8" Tube 5/8-18in Nut. I have a steel line that was on pulled motor that has this connection and was prebent to go up and behind the alt. Problem is it was then cut off and a rubber hose went from right after the front edge of motor to the carb. I'm now running an Eddy Carb and I have the eddy 8131 Fuel line w/ filter. This brings up Fitting B....which is a -6 AN Male end on the pump end of filter. Summit sold be a -6 AN female to female -6 AN coupler (which should be nice when time to replace filter. They also sold me a -6 AN Male to Male 5/8 in -18 Inverted Flare fitting. The idea was to thread the AN part of this into the AN Coupler and then thread a Female 5/8 - 18 nut onto. Problem one is they sold me the male nut and I need the female nut. No worries, I can probably get that locally. The issue is I'm having a heck of a time flaring that end...luckily up to now as I wasn't thinking and put the male end on and need the female.

I've been looking online for an actual pre-bent steal line that goes from the pump to the carb fitting, but the only ones I find are listed for Q-jets. No, clue if they would match up or not, but I called Summit again. This person said buy some aluminum 3/8" line, a few other fittings and such along with a 37* flaring tool. I think he's wanting me to create the aluminum tube with - 6 AN flares.

I think typing this might be helping make sense, but am I correct that -6 AN fittings are 37* flares and the 5/8in -18 for 3/8" line uses 45* flares? I think I might try to flare this line I have some more and see what I can get out of it, but likely need to buy a 5/8in - 18 female fitting....does that get the 45* flare? If I deem the aluminum ok, I could make a few up and replace them every few years...I'll have plenty, is there any reason I can't use the 5/8in -18 fittings with the 45* flare? Or is the - 6 AN better for this?

Any sealant on either of these? I've seen people use Teflon tape and sealers, but I thought with flare and compression you don't need anything....please advise.

Any suggestion on what to do? I've read the aluminum gets brittle on fuel line, I don't want rubber as I read that's a big cause of fires (realize probably because people don't replace when needed) and I'm not a huge fan of braided line, though I did read an article where I think the guy used a 22-58" long braided line and it looked about like bent steal, he had it so cleanly ran and perfect length....it was on this forum, I believe.

I know that's a lot, I'll try to upload a few pics of what I'm dealing with as well. Thanks for any advice...one of my last pieces before i can fire her up and it can't be this difficult to get from the eddy line down to a pump on a SBC.

[MASTERBrian]

FWIW....to get the barb ends on the steel line, I had to end up heating the tube to near red hot and then work it. Otherwise it just kept slipping out of the flaring jig. Any issue with that?

[James the III]

Originally Posted by MASTERBrian

FWIW....to get the barb ends on the steel line, I had to end up heating the tube to near red hot and then work it. Otherwise it just kept slipping out of the flaring jig. Any issue with that?

What...
ya there are issues, no need to heat the tube..
Either you didn't have the tube in the correct hole in the flaring tool,
you didn't get it tight enough,
or you bought a cheap flaring tool set..
either way, step back and stop

[MASTERBrian]

I did and decided on another route. At least for now, I'm going with a braided line. I can't get a steal line flared and I'm not buying a $300 tool for two flares.

Once I get everything on the road and broken in I might worry about it again.

[GASoline71]

I bought a Sears Craftsman flare tool kit and it does double and single flares. I have done entire brake systems with it and also bend my own fuel lines. I wouldn't pay 300 bones either...



http://www.sears.com/craftsman-45-de...1&blockType=G1

Gary

[MASTERBrian]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

I bought a Sears Craftsman flare tool kit and it does double and single flares. I have done entire brake systems with it and also bend my own fuel lines. I wouldn't pay 300 bones either...



http://www.sears.com/craftsman-45-de...1&blockType=G1

Gary

Not a bad price, problem is I've started boycotting seats/craftsman tools. They used to honor their warranty now, not so much it seems. Anytime I take something I bought I that had lifetime warranty, they say well we stopped making that all you have to take this and there is no warranty. Not saying if I find someone with I've, I wouldn't use it!

Truthfully, I just got tired or going in circles and my goal is to fire engine up this weekend if at all possible. This line was creating more headache and delays, I needed to move forward for sanity....

[James the III]

Originally Posted by MASTERBrian

Not a bad price, problem is I've started boycotting seats/craftsman tools. They used to honor their warranty now, not so much it seems. Anytime I take something I bought I that had lifetime warranty, they say well we stopped making that all you have to take this and there is no warranty. Not saying if I find someone with I've, I wouldn't use it!

Truthfully, I just got tired or going in circles and my goal is to fire engine up this weekend if at all possible. This line was creating more headache and delays, I needed to move forward for sanity....

only to total it cause your in a rush..
Sorry you think sears will keep the same exact item looking the exact same year after year, and that you boycott them. where you get your flaring tool, harbor freight??

[YoungPup1977]

LOL!!!! Boys and their tools....my tool is bigger and better...LOL!!!!!

[MASTERBrian]

Originally Posted by James the III

only to total it cause your in a rush..
Sorry you think sears will keep the same exact item looking the exact same year after year, and that you boycott them. where you get your flaring tool, harbor freight??

No, I don't expect it to be same exact style, I just expect a lifetime warranty to remain a lifetime warranty. Just like if I go buy a new Silverado off the showroom floor with a 100k mile warranty, I don't expect the motor to fail in a few years at maybe 50k and then be told, sorry we don't offer v8's but wet can drop in a 4cylinder, but the warranty is now 90 days. Take it or leave it. That's essentially what Sears/craftsman started doing to me.

Yes, I took a gamble on the HF tool, realizing it was a gamble, neighbor has two other flare tools just not the dies, so I've tried a few variants, no clue on there quality. I might take it back, might not, haven't decided if worth the hassle there. I've had good luck with some of their tools, this has been the rare instance one hasnt been decent.

FWIW, most of my hand tools have been kobalt since I stopped buying craftsman and they've been honoring the warranty if I brake it. I'm not the only person I know who has the same feelings. My theory on tools, if I'm going to use a lot, I spend the $$$, if on occasion, I'll try the cheaper route. I don't turn wrenches enough to justify the more expensive stuff.

Wouldn't say I'm getting in hurry, just not worth fighting that line at this point. It really started becoming a no go, when I am borderline out of room having to convert from 6AN to 5/8 18. I'm getting to about 1-2" from back of alt and getting a 90° bend in there with a 3/8" line is proving questionable. I bought a stretch of line with fittings in place today, thinking I'd bend it to match, but that bend.....well......I know when I'm beat! I'll revisit when I've had time to absorb and hone that skill. On a fresh motor, when trying to get ready for a break in, isn't the time to risk a mistake!

[MASTERBrian]

Originally Posted by James the III

only to total it cause your in a rush..
Sorry you think sears will keep the same exact item looking the exact same year after year, and that you boycott them. where you get your flaring tool, harbor freight??

Because their tools frost me so much, here's what I was getting from them....

Years ago I worked construction, we'd buy the craftsman stuff because when it would break they'd just replace. Tape measures, hammers, chalk lines, levels, squares, you name it. Never had an issue. I'd maybe spend $15 on a 35' tape, coulda bought 30' competitor tape for maybe $10, but I knew it'd break and I wanted the longer tape and warranty. Well came to point they stopped selling tape measures, guess they could have refunded me, but instead they'd say here's the competitor tape, all we have is 25' and the warranty is now only 90 days or something. Then they might bring out a new hand tool and talk it up and talk it up, so I'd buy it and love it, but then it'd break, take it back and it was WE NO LONGER SELL THAT here is what we can offer for exchange. No where near the value of what I originally paid. Enough times of that with wrenches, etc and I took my tool business elsewhere.

BTW, I now own half dozen $2-4 HF tape measures and they work just as good and when they break, I just toss them and have others on hand to grab and use. And when doing woodwork I don't care if I pick those up or if I grab a Stanley, etc.

[MASTERBrian]

Please don't think I'm being a jerk, I'm sure that it's a great tool and I'd almost consider, but so far these are the only two fittings I know I need to flare.

For brake lines I bought pre-bent for the front and I think I can buy straight tubes for the back and bend them myself and not worry about fittings. For the rest of the fuel lines I just need a slight flare to hold the rubber hose and I'm able to do that with the tool I have.

My confusion was summit and jegs both trying to sell me aluminum, which I don't want and then talking I need this and that and this and.....I got totally lost.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by MASTERBrian

Please don't think I'm being a jerk, I'm sure that it's a great tool and I'd almost consider, but so far these are the only two fittings I know I need to flare.

For brake lines I bought pre-bent for the front and I think I can buy straight tubes for the back and bend them myself and not worry about fittings. For the rest of the fuel lines I just need a slight flare to hold the rubber hose and I'm able to do that with the tool I have.

My confusion was summit and jegs both trying to sell me aluminum, which I don't want and then talking I need this and that and this and.....I got totally lost.

You do know your local autoparts store sells 25' rolls of steel line..
You called a speedshop (summit/jegs) so yes they want to sell you light, large diameter fuel line..
If you plan on being in this hobby , a few things you don't cheap out on..
a flaring tool is one.. as the brakes require good double flares.. (inless you are working on euro cars or latemodels then you need that 300-600.00 tool for bubble flares and such )and with brakes you don't screw around.. same with fuel, a leak can = fire..
Getting a flaring tool and knowing how to use it will be money well spent..
you don't need a 300.00 tool either..
My comment on sears was they change the look of tools, but still warranty your old one. you just are not getting one that "looks " the same..
A craftsman 6" long 3/8 ratchet , is a 6" long 3/8 ratchet.. until you get to the pro line..
Even snap on.. it's this way.. my 1/4" drive 6" ratchet doesn't look anything like what is sold of the truck today..

That was my point.. if your local sears is claiming no warranty because they don't stock what you are returning.. that is different.. as they don't have like and kind..
Or, the person you are dealing with.. is just being an _______. and you are believing him/her..

[chevy_mike]

Another option to do 3/8" fuel lines to a -6 line is a compression fitting to AN adapter like this,

http://www.jegs.com/i/Earl's/361...GuOBoCkx3w_wcB

[MASTERBrian]

Originally Posted by James the III

You do know your local autoparts store sells 25' rolls of steel line..
You called a speedshop (summit/jegs) so yes they want to sell you light, large diameter fuel line..
If you plan on being in this hobby , a few things you don't cheap out on..
a flaring tool is one.. as the brakes require good double flares.. (inless you are working on euro cars or latemodels then you need that 300-600.00 tool for bubble flares and such )and with brakes you don't screw around.. same with fuel, a leak can = fire..
Getting a flaring tool and knowing how to use it will be money well spent..
you don't need a 300.00 tool either..
My comment on sears was they change the look of tools, but still warranty your old one. you just are not getting one that "looks " the same..
A craftsman 6" long 3/8 ratchet , is a 6" long 3/8 ratchet.. until you get to the pro line..
Even snap on.. it's this way.. my 1/4" drive 6" ratchet doesn't look anything like what is sold of the truck today..

That was my point.. if your local sears is claiming no warranty because they don't stock what you are returning.. that is different.. as they don't have like and kind..
Or, the person you are dealing with.. is just being an _______. and you are believing him/her..

When the tool stays the same, but looks different I have NO issue. I'm actually debating an old 1/2" craftsman Ratchet that I have that no longer works....it's pretty old, but kind of a neat shape. Can't decide if I exchange it or keep it due to 'old' factor and maybe put it for display somewhere in shop, as I have probably 4-6+ 1/2" drive ratchets, so it's not really needed.

The first person I spoke with, at Summit, sold me 3/8" steel tubing in a roll. I'm using that from pump to tank, but it's just hose connections in a few places for that, so I just need a bit of flare to keep hose in place, along with clamp...I'm easily able to do that with the tool(s) I have.

For the brakes, I'm basically using already flared connections as I don't really want this being my guinea pig for flares. Might be different, if it was a repair, but being as it's a complete new brake system I don't really want to chase gremlins. Depending on how things get when I get to the axle end, will depend IF I have to flare any brake lines myself. So that really only leaves the fuel connection from pump to filter and though I'd prefer a solid line, I'm debating if it's worth the effort/cost to get it there at this point. A nice cut to length braided hose, may not be my 1st choice, but it should provide a reliable alternative until I decide if I want to mess with the solid line more. It was just time to step away, move on and end the frustration for now.

If I have left over 3/8" tubing, I might well play with getting the bends right and at some point invest in a flaring tool that is better, but for just two flares not seeing the aggravation in it

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by chevy_mike

Another option to do 3/8" fuel lines to a -6 line is a compression fitting to AN adapter like this,

http://www.jegs.com/i/Earl's/361...GuOBoCkx3w_wcB

I think some of those fitting that go from hard line to -AN are only good on aluminum fuel line.

Gary

[Bigdav160]

I bought CPP's stainless steal kit.

I'll assume that is a comment on the price.

I have a lot of tools. Quality tools. But I don't think I have anything that will do anymore than cut stainless steel. OK, I can weld it also

[MASTERBrian]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

I'll assume that is a comment on the price.

I have a lot of tools. Quality tools. But I don't think I have anything that will do anymore than cut stainless steel. OK, I can weld it also

It was a comment on CPP, brand name, steel brake line kit for the front.