Hammer and Dolly?

[rbeau30]

Hello Folks!

I guess I am just not good at searching the forum, but I am kicking around the idea of using a Hammer and Dolly on my resto project for some of the imperfections of the body.

Can anyone point me to a good informational thread or perhaps even give me some advice as to what I should buy for a good starter hammer and dolly set?

Thank you!

Robert

[mbgmike]

Originally Posted by rbeau30

Hello Folks!

I guess I am just not good at searching the forum, but I am kicking around the idea of using a Hammer and Dolly on my resto project for some of the imperfections of the body.

Can anyone point me to a good informational thread or perhaps even give me some advice as to what I should buy for a good starter hammer and dolly set?

Thank you!

Robert

We are members of the MetalShapers Assoc. Its a good site.
this is the link

http://www.allshops.org/

We sell all the Fournier Tools if you want to spend bucks, but I would just go to Harbor Freight if just starting out and see if you like it first. Also don't be afraid to just use a plain old claw hammer it it suits the situation. I know some people will frown but hey they are still a hammer. Harbor freight hand tools will work, Prices our good. You can always step up to a better tool later. Best way to learn is to take a class or to just go out and beat metal. You can read all the books but Your not going to learn like just doing it.

Just buy one hammer and one or two general purpose dollies to start. Just start with some small dents, stay away from deep gouges until you can do the small dents. You might get discouraged on the harder stuff if you junp in too soon.

[sevt_chevelle]

www.Metalmeet.com

For hammers and dollies, also search ebay, you can find some good deals on some used stuff.

I get most of my stuff from Dagger Tools www.daggertools.com

Here's a picture of my favorite tools.
Two of the dollies are from dagger the egg looking dolly is from Martin.
I dont use a body hammer at all to remove dents. A slap hammer is much more effective due to the larger surface area.
The two slappers I use most are on the left. The chrome one is made by Ron Covell who no longer makes them. The next one is home made from an old leaf spring.
The two hammers I do use, one has a chisel end opposite the hammer head. The other hammer has a curved heads vs the normal flat head, that makes working concave areas easy.


A picture of the surface area. Slappers are very easy to use and control and IMO much easier to learn how to work the metal as they are also more forgiving.


One tip I suggest is to use a magic marker and ink up the panel, I use a magnum marker found at office depot.
This is basically guide coating the metal, you use a block sander with some 180 and it SHOWS you the highs and lows in the metal. For rookies it really helps you place an image to what you feel when you run your hand over the panel


When blocked you get this


The hammer OFF dolly method


hammer ON dolly method


Both methods are used when repairing damage, experience and some basic knowledge will teach you when to use each method.

Also some crappy you-tube videos I did. Feel free to ask more questions...Eric
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

[rwolf9653]

sevt_chevelle
Just watched your videos and wanted to say thanks. There is a lot of good instruction in there, they are well worth watching all of them.

[rbeau30]

Thank you very much for the time to put all that information down for me. I think this will be a great way for me to start. Should not be all that expensive, and will be much better for my project than using a bunch of bondo to fill in the few dents that I do have on my project.

If I am going to fix my truck might as well do it right eh?

Thanks a bunch!

[cdowns]

most times well used hammers are actually better to use than new ones// check yard sales flea markets swap meets and pawn shops for good deals also you can use just about anything for a dolly it really depends on the contour of the piece of metal being worked//two of my favorites are a bowling pin and bowling ball

[Driveway Dreams]

The thought of coloring a whole panel with a permanent marker, seems rediculous to me. You can get real guide coat for reasonable money and you don't have to worry so much about contamination before paint. You can get powder type guide coat that "dusts" on. You can buy spray on guide coat. Or, if you are (or are around) a painter, you can make guide coat by mixing the left overs from base coats. If you use a spray on guide coat you only to to cover the area you are working. It does not need to be covered solid, just even. A very very light coat. Coloring the whole thing just seems like a waste to me, sorry. Otherwise, great info there.

[Mike 85]

We are talking bare metal when using the marker.
It dries almost instantly and the dry guide won't "stick" to bare very well.
You can use spray guide or paint but the marker is really quick and easy.
I picked that trick up from Wray on one of his DVD's.
As for it causing "issues",You basically have none left once you get the metal straight.
If you do have any,it's a quick wipe off with reducer.
It's just another way to guide bare metal,Nothing more or less.
I started out with the basic HF kit and it does have a slapper,not the greatest but it does work.Their dollies are actually good for the money spent.
Metal working requires some creative enginering at times and it comes down to "If it fits,Use it."

Nice post Eric,But I think you have the same pic on the dolly On,Off.
At least I can't see any difference.

[rbeau30]

So what does everyone like to use just before you prime the metal then? Is there a good product that cleans the metal just before spraying primer?

I think I am going to take a trip over to Harbor Freight and get a 8 piece set *inexpensive* to start playing with. Then I'll start practicing on my neighbor's aluminum siding!

*evil maniacal laugh*

[Driveway Dreams]

Mike, i understand your point and in the bare metal I can see see the ease of removing it all. Thank you, sometimes I think and it is more like . You know? I had the cheap HF set to start with too and I agree, the dollies work very well. The hammers were not too bad till I let another guy use them for a couple days and they came back dinged up. Keep the face of your hammers nice! Any imperfections on them WILL transfer to your metal.

[mbgmike]

I just use machinist's blue instead of a marker. does same thing but takes less time

[mbgmike]

Originally Posted by rbeau30

So what does everyone like to use just before you prime the metal then? Is there a good product that cleans the metal just before spraying primer?

I think I am going to take a trip over to Harbor Freight and get a 8 piece set *inexpensive* to start playing with. Then I'll start practicing on my neighbor's aluminum siding!

*evil maniacal laugh*

I have a 18ft trailer loaded with practice parts come and get em

[mbgmike]

Originally Posted by rbeau30

So what does everyone like to use just before you prime the metal then? Is there a good product that cleans the metal just before spraying primer?

I think I am going to take a trip over to Harbor Freight and get a 8 piece set *inexpensive* to start playing with. Then I'll start practicing on my neighbor's aluminum siding!

*evil maniacal laugh*

We wash it down with water. blow it off then pickle and passivate it. I love that saying

We put a metal acid treatment on it and the neutralize it.

we use PPG DX520 and DX-579

[Mike 85]

Yeah DD,I know what you mean.
Metal working IS an exercise in PAITENCE and it's like paint,
It takes time,paitence,experience to LEARN how to do it properly.
I've overworked metal trying to learn it and finally just WACKED it DOWN and filled it in with disgust.
But,and you guys know with me,there is ALWAYS a But,
You have to keep at it and persevere because NOTHING is STRONGER than the METAL itself.
I found an old Chilton Auto Body Manual Part # 7898 on the jobbers counter one day several years ago they were "getting rid of" and was looking thru it,the "paint" sections were quite "dated" BUT,The metal repair section was a gold mine of repairing and replacing metal work. I won't go into all the details but it has excellent explaniations of how metal reacts to different forces applied at impact as well as what's needed to counteract these impact areas.If you can find one of these manuals,I would suggest getting one. It has taught me a lot about this art form.That and the "next" tool.
SHRINKING DISK......

[sevt_chevelle]

The powder dry guide coat as stated earlier does not stick to metal at all.
You guide goat primer to find your highs and lows why not the metal?
If you use this method its much easier for beginners to actually see what the metal looks like rather then guessing when feeling it.
The fender in the picture was worked til the point it required NO BODY FILLER at all. I have about 5 hours in this fender start to finish, I highly doubt any body man could have mudded the thing any faster. The reason for coating the entire fender is for the level of precision am after.

The marker dries in a matter of seconds, basecoat or spray bomb paint will not, plus you need spraying equipment for basecoat and the fumes it emits would stink up the garage. I pay about 4 bucks for the marker and they last me through about 2 fenders, so that's pretty cheap.

The marker wipes off with thinner. Ive been using marker for years on my own home projects and everyday in a collision body shop without ONE SINGLE paint failure.

As for pre paint prep, I like SPI products. But for PPG I use their waterborne cleaner I believe the number dx101 or dx330 will work just fine.
Then I da sand with 80 grit, blow off the metal and then wipe clean again until the rag shows no sign of dirt. Then spray 2 coats of epoxy primer.

Mike thanks for catching the picture, they are both hammer OFF.

[sevt_chevelle]

Dp

[rbeau30]

Ohhh "mbgmike". This is off topic, but thanks for donating to the USO. They are such a Godsend, and a worthy cause.

Back when I was married, and my wife and I had a newborn, I got stranded in Seattle Airport for 2 days travelling to visit family, and my family and I stayed at the USO in the airport for the two days comfortably.

Also, In Baltimore, I stayed there overnight upon returning from the sandbox last September.

I just want to say thank you and your company for supporting the worthy cause!

[sevt_chevelle]

Originally Posted by Mike 85

I found an old Chilton Auto Body Manual Part # 7898 on the jobbers counter one day several years ago they were "getting rid of" and was looking thru it,the "paint" sections were quite "dated" BUT,The metal repair section was a gold mine of repairing and replacing metal work. I won't go into all the details but it has excellent explaniations of how metal reacts to different forces applied at impact as well as what's needed to counteract these impact areas.If you can find one of these manuals,I would suggest getting one. It has taught me a lot about this art form.That and the "next" tool.
SHRINKING DISK......

Mike, those old books are full of tricks and tool ideas that are long gone today in the industry. Those old boys HAD to learn to repair metal because parts were simply harder to get back then. It blows my mind away some of the stuff they fixed.
Ive got a pretty large collection of books dating back to mid 30's on body repair and starting to get some WWII era U.S. govt books on metal fab, those are down right awesome!!!

[Mike 85]

The only "metal treatment" I'M interested in is,
Blasting anchor pattern or 80gt DA and EPOXY.
It's like using "protection" during the "act",
I don't want NOTHING between me and IT.
If I don't "trust" it,I don't "do" it.
JMO,Use what YOU like and take the chances.

No offense to Mike or anyone else who uses these converters,coverings or such on bare metal BUT,
Yeah,Hehehehe,the But
IF you have it down to bare metal already,spray it with EPOXY and be DONE with it.You'll be WAY ahead on the game and have superior "protection" to boot.
As alway's. JMO.

[mbgmike]

Originally Posted by sevt_chevelle

Mike, those old books are full of tricks and tool ideas that are long gone today in the industry. Those old boys HAD to learn to repair metal because parts were simply harder to get back then. It blows my mind away some of the stuff they fixed!!

That is true. My cousin had a shop all through the late 50's and 70's I have some old ones back from the 50's and 60's. One shows them fixing a 1959 impala 4 door with the roof completely flattened. I mean flat. I would have never attempted it

[sevt_chevelle]

Here's the correct picture of hammer ON dolly.
The hammer and dolly and in direct contact and compress or stretch the metal out.


Working the metal takes time and some effort and lots patience. You WILL screw up and you WILL learn to correct it. Just remember is only metal, you control it.

With some practice under your belt I dont see why you cant have something like this.


Here's the same fender as in the original post. After about 10mins of work those dents are gone and to the point of requiring no filler.


This stuff is not rocket science just pick up the tools and give it try...Eric

[Mike 85]

Eric,I for one am glad you found your way back out of the CORN.
We've missed your posts here and on SPI.
I really appreciate people who are "teachers" and good at explaining things,which I basically stink at, and look forward to your progression in this work.
Reguardless of how "novice" you think your vids are,they still drive home the point and really,the more "basic" they are,the BETTER.

[mbgmike]

Originally Posted by Mike 85

The only "metal treatment" I'M interested in is,
Blasting anchor pattern or 80gt DA and EPOXY.
It's like using "protection" during the "act",
I don't want NOTHING between me and IT.
If I don't "trust" it,I don't "do" it.
JMO,Use what YOU like and take the chances.

No offense to Mike or anyone else who uses these converters,coverings or such on bare metal BUT,
Yeah,Hehehehe,the But
IF you have it down to bare metal already,spray it with EPOXY and be DONE with it.You'll be WAY ahead on the game and have superior "protection" to boot.
As alway's. JMO.

Yeah some of the guys that worked here never liked it but I am not sure that it makes it Inferior. We have had excellent success using it Before spraying epoxy. Anything that helps get the metal clean is a good idea for me. ALot of people have never used it so they do not trust it. We run into that.They actually use the same method in the car factories believe it or not for bare metal treament, before painting. Whats wrong if they use it. Same stuff. I have all the US auto manufacturers factory painting procedures and materials they use. We just do it the same way.

[rbeau30]

Ohhh you guys got me all excited to get started! If I got enough cash to get a set tomorrow I'll go do that and keep you all up to date on my progress.

I guess you are right, I should probably try something, and if the paint gives me issues a couple years from now, welll.... I already know how to take apart my truck and do a resto, I can always do it again!

[mbgmike]

Originally Posted by rbeau30

Ohhh "mbgmike". This is off topic, but thanks for donating to the USO. They are such a Godsend, and a worthy cause.

Back when I was married, and my wife and I had a newborn, I got stranded in Seattle Airport for 2 days travelling to visit family, and my family and I stayed at the USO in the airport for the two days comfortably.

Also, In Baltimore, I stayed there overnight upon returning from the sandbox last September.

I just want to say thank you and your company for supporting the worthy cause!

Thanks. We feel like its the least we can do after all they do for all of us.