454 troubles

[xpickup]

Hi I am new to this area, I usually am in the 47-59 area. I bought a 1996 chevy 4 door already lowered in September aka money pit. It was warm when I bought it and now that it is colder all the problems came out and did they ever. It started with a miss and stumble, so I did the easy stuff first, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, and fuel filter. Still there. Then checked fuel pressure. It was 50psi and went down when you revved it up and it also bleed down after you shut it off very quickly. So clamped off the return line and still did it. So I ordered a set of injectors and an egr valve from 5.0 motorsports. I also bought a new regulator to put in while I had the upper intake off. Put that all in and my bleed down almost went away. I also put a coolant temperature sensor in too because the weather pack gasket looked warped out and read about the leaking and messing up the plug. Took for a drive and it still was not right. I had also noticed that the distributor (cam sensor) was unplugged. Plugged back in . Now a service engine code. Also checked fuel pressure and now with the new regulator the pressure was bouncing all around and was lower that before. Rev it and it would go into the middle 40s. So I ordered a whole pump assembly. Put that in and it is better but still only has 50 psi at idle and goes up with the rims. I read that everyone says it should be 58 to 62. It is a Delphi pump. With each thing I have done it does seem to be better. I had a buddy bring in his scanner to day to see what the code is. It was a p1345 which is camshaft to crankshaft position correlation fault. I had the timing checked at a garage and it was spot on. So I was seeing if anyone one had any ideas on all my all my problems. I hear the the code could be the distributor gear being worn. I probably have $1100 in it in the past 3 months and that is with me doing all the work. And it also has a new battery in too as of Sunday. So I am about at wits end with it! Hopefully I can get some help. Thank you.


Shannon

[speedygonzales]

2 things. First I found the cam retard works best if it's slightly negative. It allows +-2 so go either -1 or -2.

Before I learned what that was, I had already done my intake gaskets 2 times. After years of running it at negative 16 (not knowing it) I put it to 0 and it immediately threw a 1345. So I stay at or below 0.

Second the fuel pressure number you read was NOT running. It's after the engine is primed but the engine is OFF. For example, turn the key on and off several times without cranking it. Running will always be a little lower than spec.

[xpickup]

speedygonzales, thank you very much. I will check the fuel pressure over the weekend. That is good to know about it being lower while running. I would just be my luck that the pump would be bad. I said something to my buddy at the garage about the timing and he said it was right on zero so I will have to retard it 2 degrees and see what happens. I also am going to do a compression test and see how that is. The miss really bothers me. I normally work on carbs and the fuel injection is new to me.


Shannon

[xpickup]

I talked to my buddy about retarding my distributor and he said he will do it. Just have not gotten it done yet. I should just break down and by a scanner. I checked my fuel pressure while not running and it was a 58 psi , so that is good. Today I checked to see if the spark plugs were firing and #2 looked weak. I pushed the wire in at the cap and it looked like the rest then. While doing that I broke the plastic line the goes the emissions canister so I have to get a piece of hose for it tonight and take it for a drive tomorrow. If I am still not pleased with it I am going to do a compression check and see how that is. I am keeping my fingers crossed!



Shannon

[DuallyDave]

I had a similar issue. It was the distributor!
The gear was worn down.
Its a pain, but remove the cap. Now check for play. My rotor had play up and down and back and forth. When I pulled it out, this distributor gear was worn. Just replaced it tonight and runs great!

Good luck ...

[xpickup]

DuallyDave, that is the next thing it is getting. Hopefully next week.

Shannon

[DuallyDave]

Xpickup .... let me know if it solved your problem..

[xpickup]

DuallyDave, well do. Going to order one hopefully Friday. So sometime next week.


Shannon

[xpickup]

DuallyDave, The new distributor is in and set. It STILL does it when it is cold. It is something temperature related. It was 50 on Saturday and it ran fine. Sunday early it was 30 and it had the miss. Then later when it warmed up it ran fine. Had the codes checked, MAF and MAP came up. I put the MAF on and doing MAP tonight. Also drivers side rear O2 sensor code came up. I am wondering about the coil and the ignition module, a buddy had said they are on the primary side and would not throw a code. I hate this fuel injected stuff. If I did not have all the money in it that I have it would get a BBC and a turbo 400. It has a 4L80 and the controler is $800. So frustrated!


Shannon

[speedygonzales]

You're scrambling together a bunch of unrelated issues. First, you were going after a 1345.

Now your going after a miss that is only cold?????? Then you mention the rear O2s. The rear Os2 have NOTHING to do with running. You got a new distributor cause someone mentioned their gear was warn. You never mentioned if yours was warn.

I mentioned to go slightly negative and you said you would try it. No mention of if it worked or not??????

Electrical items are dependent on temperature but they have a problem when they are HOT not cold. They don't get better as they get hot.

Your spinning too much into one lump. No wonder you're frustrated.

Good lord take this one issue at a time and before you go jumping into it with a fist full of dollars, ask ask ask.

[xpickup]

speedygonzales, yes, I am very frustrated. I did check the distributor for play and it did have some and the back screw hole was broke, so I figured I would get a new one. I did tell them to set it -2 and naturally they set it at 0 to find out today. They did it on Friday. It still had a check engine light when I got in it to leave but I had to get home for my kids and did not have time to have the rescan it. I call and my buddy said he did not know if the owner cleared the codes, so he said bring it this week and he would clear it. It ran fine going home. Saturday was 50 degrees and it ran great so I thought it was fixed. Then Sunday morning it was 30 degrees out and drove it and it coughed and stumbled like before. Then once it warmed up it seemed fine. Then I drove it in the afternoon and it was about 50 degrees and it was running good. So I thought I would stop at autozone and have them scan it . One code was a P0101 and the other was P0141 and I think the P1345. I had cleaned the MAF sensor and it was still ratty looking about a month ago. My buddy said he replaces them more than the MAP sensors so I bought the MAF. I put it on Sunday. Then Monday morning I was going to drive it to work, it was about 30 degrees. I warmed it up and drove it to work and it ran good. So I thought I was good to go. Wrong, drove it home after work and it acted up again. It never warmed up outside so it was still about 30 degrees out. So I bought the MAP sensor last night because the code was for both sensors. I had already replaced all the vacuum hoses and checked the coupling hose from the air cleaner to the throttle body. I put the MAP sensor in tonight. I pulled the old one off and the stub was broke off of it. It looked like it had been broke off for a while. So again I thought I was getting somewhere with the problem. Again it was 30 degrees out and it still acted up like before, then it seemed to get better. Went back down to autozone and had it scanned. They cleared it the only one that came back was the P1345. The others are gone or they were setting in there parking lot. I drove it home and it seemed fine. So that is were we are at now. I called my buddy and said that I wanted it set -2 and he said the owner hard a hard time with it. I asked him if that would make it do that and he said probably not with 2 degrees of time. But I do not know. It always seems like it is a temperature problem. Cold it acts up and warmer out it seems fine. I am in a hurry to fix it because my other dually is sold. I figured by buying some of the parts I would not have to replace them for a while. My buddy and the owner of where he work really have no idea what it is and I really did not want to take it to a dealer. One thing with old non fuel injected stuff, sometimes a weak coil will do weird things. I also thought of the ignition module. So if you have any idea please let me know. This is not really my strong point, I do fabricating and sheet metal mostly so this is a learning process!


Shannon

[speedygonzales]

So you are down to nothing else other than the 1345 is that correct?

As I mentioned earlier mine had run for years at -16 degrees and never once threw a code 1345. When I got my new distributor and set it at 0, it threw the code. I went -1 and it's been good for 2 years now.

If you are 0 or positive, I would try it negative. If that does not work, I have a few other suggestions.

[xpickup]

speedygonzales, That was yesterday in autozones lot that was the only thing. A guy gave me a scanner to borrow so I can check things and it can data log. So I will check things when I get home from work today. It is 27 degrees out and I started it up to warm it up for maybe 10 minutes and left for work. It had its miss for maybe a mile and when I got on the highway it seem to clear its self up and ran good to work. It is probably a 20 minute ride. I will set it back a degree or 2. Would it cause a miss with just 2 degrees off. It just seems to be heat related. But I do not know.


Shannon

[xpickup]

Warmed it up to come home and seem to run fine. Picked up my daughter from school and it sat for 15 minutes and it acted up for a little while and cleared up. Went to the garage after dropping my daughter off at home. Told the owner about the timing needed set to -1 or -2. He just looked at me. He told me that it is set at 0. I talked to my buddy and he said he had a hard time doing it. I kind of think he does not want to bother with it! Came home and checked the codes, still the p1345 and now a new one, p1406 which is egr. I had replaced that when I bought the injectors from 5.0 motorsports. It seem like it has a different code each time I drive it. I moved it to the front of the driveway now.

Shannon

[xpickup]

Well I was going to walk away from it a little bit, but it has been bugging the hell out of me. So I borrowed a scanner and it checked a little over -20 degrees in timing. Which I was told that it was at 0. So I went to another garage that a guy that I went to school with works. Was telling him about all my problems with it and he grabbed his scanner and he checked it. It was -19 degrees on there scanner! So I have to loosen it the hold down and move it. Hopefully it is not a tooth off. Hoping it warms up a little later, because it is 11 now. So I might wait a little.


Shannon

[speedygonzales]

There you go. Real 0 should fix it. Who told you it was zero again?

Remember there are several codes for things sometimes so EGR doesn't always mean the EGR valve is bad. Could just be wiring.

[xpickup]

Speedygonzales, yes he told me that last Friday and the other day when I asked him again. Then when I checked with the hand held one I borrowed I seen it was like -20 . That was why I went to the other garage because I was double checking what I was getting. I will feel 10x better when it is set and hopefully it runs right. I think I might end up buying one of these scanners just so I can read and set my own stuff.


Shannon

[xpickup]

Just reread you post. It was the owner of the garage that I go to. My buddy works there but he does not do the computer stuff a whole lot. I also cleared the code and the egr code went away for now. I hope it is not a tooth off.

Shannon

[xpickup]

Oki tried to set the timing on it. The scanner I am using has agn adv which I am thinking is the timing. I moved the distributor all over the place and then made sure the engine was above 1000 rpm and it seems like it does not change that reading at all. I had the lower intake gaskets changed when I first bought it because they were leaking. It never had a check engine light on till after that. But when it started to act funny I was feeling around and found that the cam sensor in the distributor was unplugged. So I plugged it in, and had a light ever since. So after screwing around with it. I decided to clear all the codes and unplug the cam sensor and start it up. No check engine light. Which if you ask me seems weird. You would think that would show a faulty sensor and through a light. Then I looked at the plug and it did not look real good. I dug around in it and you can see the contacts. I pushed them down so they would contact the pins in the distributor. I plug it back in and there was the light again. Do you think it is a wiring issue? So that is where I am at now.


Shannon

[speedygonzales]

The numbers you are looking for is referred to as cam retard offset since the ignition timing can not be changed. That must not be what your scanner is showing you. I believe this checks the relationship between the CKP and the cam sensor.

You should find someone with a Snap-on brand scanner. I know they can do it. Or some day if I ever get the chance to go to HD factory, I'll stop by and do yours.

[xpickup]

Speedygonzales, yes, the cheaper scanner doesn't do the cam retard naturally. I have a buddy that works at the last garage that is going to set it with his scanner. He was going to come over tonight but I could not get a hold of him. So hopefully he will get to it soon.

Yes, you get up my way contact me, it is always great to meet people from the board. HD is only a couple of miles down the road. I can be there in a little over 5 minutes. I guess they still do plant tours. There was a museum at the old plant. But I believe they had moved it away before they tore the old plant down. I was there when I was in high school but that was over 20 years ago and I was never through the plant.

Shannon

[xpickup]

It is amazing if finally runs right! I think the garage that had set / checked the timing in it for the P1345 code was not letting it come up to operating temperature. My buddy came over to the house this morning with the scanner from his work. He plugged it in when I first started it up and the timing did read 0. But once it was to temperature it then read -17 degrees. Way wrong answer. So we set it and no code, took it for a drive and it ran great. So I figure I would wait a couple of hours and let it get cold. I took it for a drive and did not let it warm up and took it down the road and it did not cough and stumble. So now it has not lights or codes finally.

Shannon

[speedygonzales]

There's some good news for a change (on this board)

[xpickup]

Yes, no doubt. It is such a relief. Thank you for your help and if you make it up to HD look me up.


Shannon