Oil pan help: stock or no?

[rubberbandit]

So I am doing a rebuild on a 400 sbc (400+ HP 3.75 in. stroke, 5.7 inch rods) and am wondering what portions of the oil system I should replace and what I can reuse.

Pan: can I use the stock or is there a better suggested pan? The truck has a 2" drop if that makes a difference
Windage tray: do I need one? If so what type is best?
Pump: old stock or stock replacement? I dont want high volume or high pressure
Pickup: help here too
any other things like studs, pump shaft, etc.

I have all the old stock components but what would you guys replace? What usually goes out on these engines in regards to the oil system? I want it long lasting. It will be a daily driver (prob no strip use). I don't mind buying something if it means it will last longer than what I've got.

As always, thanks again for the advice

[cdowns]

as long as the flange of the pan is in good undamaged condition it is about the best quality steel pan that you can get. clean it up and paint it and it is good to go another 40years

[GASoline71]

Stock replacement oil pump. No need for the high volume or high pressure pumps. Never reuse an oil pump. They're cheap. Also you'll need a new pickup.

You don't need a windage tray.

The old pan will clean up nicely. Like the cat above said... check the rails for starightness, and repaint and bolt 'er back on.

I have a 2" drop up front on my '72 GMC with a stock pan on my 350... no clearance issues.

Gary

[rubberbandit]

Alright, so I will clean up the old pan and get a new pump and pickup.

Any ideas on which stock replacement pump and pickup I should get?

Brand? P/N?

What have you guys had success with?

Also, Is there a difference between pumps for a 400 and pumps for a 350?

[BigDan3131]

Mellings

[Captainfab]

I would recommend the Melling M-55 standard volume pump. You should be able to use the Melling 55-S1 pickup. Also be sure to get a new intermediate drive shaft, Melling IS-55E

[fastwillie 696969]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

I would recommend the Melling M-55 standard volume pump. You should be able to use the Melling 55-S1 pickup. Also be sure to get a new intermediate drive shaft, Melling IS-55E

i concur

[GASoline71]

Yup... Melling pumps are the best out there.

Gary

[Marv D]

I'd be VERY cautious about the standard melling M55 pumps, and go to the 'select' 10552. The 10552 is only 10% more volume than stock volume pump and isn't going to erode bearings or rob any huge HP, or cause unnecessary wear on the distributor gear associated with the high pressure / high volume pumps of the olden days. The 1055x is simply a more efficient pump, not a stock pump with a heavy spring to jack the pressure up.

There has been a lot of internet chatter over the last few years about the castings cracking with the M55 stock replacement pumps. I've not seen it or experienced it,, but if there is one place you don't want to scrimp,, it would be oil pump (IMO anyways)

RE: the oil pickup ,, you need to get the one that matches your pan AND verify that it is positioned at least 3/8" off the bottom of the pan. I like more myself,, like 1/2" minimum but to each their own.

Driving the pickup into a new pump takes a bit of finesse,, a special tool you can make yourself, and even IF the pickup has the bolt-on retainer,,, find someone with a MIG that knows what their doing to tack the pickup to the pump. I CAN show you two broken 'bolt-on' retainers from Moroso. All I'm saying is if you trust the press fit of driving the pickup on,, then why do so many offer the 'bolt-on' retainer as added security,, and if that is susceptible to failure,, what's left??? Just be sure whomever welds the pickup knows what there doing. Too much heat will warp the cover and the pump will want to eat it's self up.

If you really have an honest 400+HP,, I'm of a bit different mind than others. MORE oil is good, but you have to keep it in the right place,, IN THE PAN no roped around the crank or all packed up against the passengers side of the block / pan rail. High end pans not only scrape away the parasitic oil off the rotator as best it can, but they give that oil some place to go, and a path back to the BOTTOM of the pan. Here's an example,, one of Charlie Gilbertson's creations for the AJE frame clip. (ignore the poor welding of where I had to modify it for the R&P at the front edge,, Charlie does a nice job)



The screen strips the oil away, and the scraper (or the passengers side pan rail) just piles the oil up. The the crank has to beat it's way through the wall of oil. Pans with the big kickout on that side offer a path to get that oil away from the rotating assembly. It frees up the HP stolen by the wall of oil,, and helps not aerate the oil as it does. No their not cheap, and probably beyond the needs of a street strip motor. BUT my point is oil control is worth investigating and doing what you can do to keep the oil in it's place.

One of the best street / strip pans (just IMO) is the Moroso 20191 pan with built in screen and scraper, 7qt ,, and clears a 3.85 stroke. For $210 it's a darn decent oiling system.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-20191/

Slummit used to have a 'package' with pan, Melling select pump, and matching Moroso pickup for right around $325 as I recall. I bet a call to them will find it. Just be SURE they don't substitute any of the Summit house brand junk in the 'package'. Get the real deal from Moroso and Melling, or get it individually.

[GASoline71]

The Melling M55A is the stock replacement Z28 pump that was designed for the 302HO engines in the late 60's. Are those just considered another high volume pump? Or do they put out closer to a plain M55?

Just curious...

Gary

[crazy longhorn]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

The Melling M55A is the stock replacement Z28 pump that was designed for the 302HO engines in the late 60's. Are those just considered another high volume pump? Or do they put out closer to a plain M55?

Just curious...

Gary

The original Z-28 pump was a high pressure pump(not hy volume).. crazyL

[crazy longhorn]

I probably should expand on the last post...For many yrs , I ran that Z-28 pump on my street toys. I used a 6 Q (1 ton truck pan)under it....yes, early 60's to about 72 run a 6 Q pan on a 30 series truck This system gave me no problems at all. I am running the same pan on my 383, with a 10555 Mellings pump(high pressure/high volume) The bypass is @ 72psi @ HOT...not really needed on a 6000 rpm motor. Figure about 10 psi per 1000 rpms. If you try to use one of those cheap pans , on a 383 or 406, You had better plan on beatin some lumps in it DR side ,just below the pan rail(rod clearance) I also think the 10552 would be the way to fly . If you are on the track, the scrapers & screens may give you a little edge....on the street, I doubt that you will see it. crazyL

[rubberbandit]

so crazy, are you saying to use the stock pan with the melling 10552 pump and pickup?

[crazy longhorn]

Originally Posted by rubberbandit

so crazy, are you saying to use the stock pan with the melling 10552 pump and pickup?

The stock pan I refer to is a 6Q truck pan(probably hard to find anymore). When ever I run a high volume /hy pressure pump, I prefer to have a little extra oil capacitcy.....just to be sure not to suck the pan dry on the high end of the rev scale The Moroso setup that Marv mentioned, is probably the best way to go for a "bolt on app", as those old stock pans wont clear the rods on the stroker without some massaging. crazyL