Steering Issues

[adpostel]

I have the whole front suspension from an 86 truck under the front of my 68 truck. I believe its everything except the actual frame rails. I am having an issue with my steering, my truck steers fine to the left, but not to the right. I noticed today that from the straight position, I can turn to the left and see the rag joint on the gear box turn about 2 full turns and about 1/4. Back to the center position and I can only turn it to the right about 1 full turn and maybe 1/8. Shouldn't they turn equally to both sides? And how many turns total from left to right should there be? I am counting about 3 and a half turns total from left to right. I was thinking maybe there was an issue where they didn't put the steering box right in the middle of the turns when they put this together. Any advice would be appreciated. I can post some pics of the steering box that is in there if that would help.

[adpostel]

Here are some pics of what I have going on.

[adpostel]

Comparison pics of max left turn vs. max right turn.

[Boog]

It sounds to me like the pitman arm is not centered on the steering sector output shaft. It is splined and may have been replaced at some time or another without getting it centered. I suggest disconnecting the steering linkage from the pitman arm then turn the steering wheel from lock to lock and count the turns. Then turn it back half way, then go look at where the pitman arm is pointing. It should be parallel with the frame rail. If not it needs to be removed and recentered on the shaft.

[adpostel]

Ya, that was the only thing that I came up with as well. But I seem to have great steering to the left, and if I take any of that slack away, I think I won't be able to turn tight enough to be safe. In other words, I feel like the steering needs to be the same as what it steers now, but to both sides. Does everyone elses steering see 3 1/2 turns lock to lock? That sure seems tight. I'll check it out again tomorrow and see where the pitman arm is pointing when I center the output shaft. I guess half of 3 1/2 would be 1 3/4 turns left and right. Maybe that will work, but it sure seems tight. I guess I'll try to check that out.

[adpostel]

Man I'm still thinking about this. Is everyones steering about 1 3/4 turns to the left and right?

[jim zag]

Try centering the steering box and then adjust the toe in to get the wheels back to straight ahead.

[cdowns]

it's pretty much the most basic of all steeringm tech. CENTER THE STEERING BOX

[adpostel]

OK, OK. I went out to tackle this issue, and this is what I found. First of all, after counting the turns lock to lock and going back halfway, the truck was turned to the left a little. The steering wheel wasn't straight either. Then I went underneath to check the position of the pitman arm, and it wasn't parallel to the frame rails either. I thought it to be pretty easy to just take the pitman arm off the splined output shaft, and recenter, the only problem was that the splined shaft has four large centering grooves in it, so the pitman arm will only go on one way. I then noticed that the darn left wheel has the tie rod arms adjusted all the way out, and the right tire has them all the way in! WTF! So at the risk of sounding to ignorant, the tie rod adjustments on both wheels should be somewhat close, correct?

Another thing. When trying to undo the nuts on the tie rod ends or the pitman arm, the shaft just spins and spins. How do you get these things off?

[69GMCLonghorn]

The key to any good project lies in the quality of VICE GRIPS employed to get things stuck unstuck, or things that spin to stop spinning...

My opinion on the tie rods is probably the same as yours; something isn't kosher! Sounds like you have a lot of loosening, centering and retightening to do, but it will probably pay off.

I have a question: What made you drop all the suspension from the '68 and replace it with the newer stuff? The design is essentially the same. I'm not being difficult here; I'm curious as to the advantages... Good luck, man! I hope you get it all worked out.

[Tkmadone]

Your tie rods should be about the same length. This will probably solve your centering issue.

The turnbuckle between the rod ends is threaded to that turning it one way loosens both at the same time or tightens both at the same time. Loosen it enough and it will come apart.

[screamin_c10]

I just went through this on my '68.

As CDowns and the other stated, center your pitman arm parallel with the frame. Do not let it move, from there adjust your tierod ends to get the wheels straight with a slight 1/16" toe in. This is accomplished by loosening both clamps on the adjusting sleeves and either screwing the tie rods in or out depending on your needs.

Once that is all good, then pop your steering wheel off and put it back on straight...this might take some additional time and effort but it is the only way to get it all lined up properly.

Once you are done with the above I would suggest taking it in for a pro alignment....

Hope that helps
Bill

[adpostel]

OK, I did what I could before having to come to work. I basically took off the centerlink and tie rod assemblies and adjusted them till both sides were about the same (pretty much in the middle) Then I made sure the steering box was centered, and it turns out that my steering wheel is on perfectly straight when the pitman arm is parallel with the frame rails. The problem seemed to be the ridiculous tie rod adjustment, or lack thereof. So then I worked on adjusting each side at a time until the tires were straight. Man, it sure is hard to get the lock nuts back onto the inner tie rods. I tried everything I could think of and I couldn't get the lock nuts back onto the tie rod end. Not sure if there is a trick or something, but once the bolt gets on so far, the shaft starts spinning. Time was limited, so I had to stop, but I did turn lock to lock and there was a huge improvement over what I had. So now the only issue is getting the lock nuts and castle nuts back on all the way......Any tricks or suggestions?

[adpostel]

Originally Posted by 69GMCLonghorn

I have a question: What made you drop all the suspension from the '68 and replace it with the newer stuff? The design is essentially the same. I'm not being difficult here; I'm curious as to the advantages... Good luck, man! I hope you get it all worked out.

It was the Previous Owner that swapped everything out. My best guess is that he had an 86 donor truck and wanted to use the spindles out of it to convert to 5 lug, and in the process he probably figured he may as well do the whole thing, control arms and all. I guess I would have done the same thing as well, if for nothing else, to have 18 year newer parts on instead of the originals. He swapped a lot of things out of that 86 truck. Tilt Steering column, Power Brakes with proportioning valve and all, control arms, springs, spindles, rotors, brakes..... It rides VERY VERY well, nice and smooth, not all shakey and rattley.

[adpostel]

So how do you get the castle nuts and lock nuts back on the tie rods? They only seem to go on a little bit and then the whole "spindle" starts to spin with the nut as I tighten it. Any tips or suggestions?

[Wrenchbender Ret]

You need to squeeze the parts together with vise grips or C clamp. When you squeeze the tapered parts together that usually holds it from turning. I don't reuse the self locking nuts myself. If it has a cotter pin hole I use a castle nut. If not I use a plain nut with lock tight. It is not legal but so is a lot of other things.

[jholley]

Originally Posted by adpostel

So at the risk of sounding to ignorant, the tie rod adjustments on both wheels should be somewhat close, correct?

Another thing. When trying to undo the nuts on the tie rod ends or the pitman arm, the shaft just spins and spins. How do you get these things off?

Yes the tie rod ends adjustment should be somewhat similar. Also if you have access to a compressor and an impact gun those nuts will come right off.

[adpostel]

OK, well I came to the conclusion that I would just reuse the tie rod ends that were on there, since there really wasn't any issues with slop, just the turn ratio. I was on the hunt today to get some new castle nuts and cotter pins, and I couldn't find the castle nuts anywhere. Local auto parts didn't carry them, local ACE hardware didn't have them, Lowe's or Home Depot didn't have them. So do I just have to bite the bullet and buy all new tie rod ends? All I need is the darn castle nuts. Anyone have any idea what size nut the tie rod ends take? Maybe I'll just use regular nuts with loctite? Any suggestions?

Thanks

[jholley]

I don't really see what the problem with re-using the castle nuts is. I don't re-use nylon lock nuts or cotter pins but all metal lock nuts or castle nuts with new cotter pins shouldn't be a problem. You can get all metal lock nuts at Ace hardware.

[adpostel]

Two of my castle nuts seemed to be cross threaded when I removed them. But just the nut was cross threaded, the threads on the tie rod itself were fine. Thats why I thougth I'd just get new castle nuts and cotter pins for all of them. I'll have to keep looking I guess.