Bring back the stick shift

[richard2717]

I tend to agree

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/o...ZFoNx2tctlCEtY

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[mongocanfly]

I'm in...would love if my 13gmc had a 5spd manual...

[dieseldawg142]

it's why i keep repairing and daily driving my '90 K1500- 5 spd

[Indian113]

My wife and I both drive anti theft manual shift equipped vehicles!

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by Indian113

My wife and I both drive anti theft manual shift equipped vehicles!

I still lock the doors but there is a small sense of reassurance knowing that most of the population that is still young enough to think that stealing cars is a viable way to make a living can't drive a stick.

I use the same line of thought with the Shovelhead. I still lock the discs and head set but the 18" apes, jockey shift and suicide clutch give me a little added comfort knowing that even if someone did manage to figure out the "dance" of kick starting it, its highly likely they'd wreck spectacularly before they'd get too far. If it did get ridden away, Id know without a doubt it was a biker (and a real one at that) or a flippin' gymnast that got her !

[special-K]

I've been saying bring back the stick shift for years, for other reasons. I think automatics were the first step toward mindless driving that has gotten worse with every other convenience that helps avoid our minds engaging in the activity of driving. When you drive a manual you know what gear you are in. You are in that gear intentionally because you 'have to' be in the 'appropriate' gear. That's your job. You don't go through town in 4th gear when the speed limit isall 25 but people these days are in O/D all the time, even in parking lots. When do most people ever use anything but "D" and now "O" with an automatic? What are those numbers for? On a motorcycle awareness (and control) is the key. I don't hear anyone complaining about shifting gears on one of those. That's because riding one is all about being 'involved' in the activity, for the pleasure and the safety. People who are more 'into' their vehicles and driving them tend to be safer drivers no matter what it is they drive. The answer to safer driving is drivers being more aware of the task at hand and honing their skills, not the avoidance.

[68Timber]

Originally Posted by special-K

I've been saying bring back the stick shift for years, for other reasons. I think automatics were the first step toward mindless driving that has gotten worse with every other convenience that helps avoid our minds engaging in the activity of driving. When you drive a manual you know what gear you are in. You are in that gear intentionally because you 'have to' be in the 'appropriate' gear. That's your job. You don't go through town in 4th gear when the speed limit isall 25 but people these days are in O/D all the time, even in parking lots. When do most people ever use anything but "D" and now "O" with an automatic? What are those numbers for? On a motorcycle awareness (and control) is the key. I don't hear anyone complaining about shifting gears on one of those. That's because riding one is all about being 'involved' in the activity, for the pleasure and the safety. People who are more 'into' their vehicles and driving them tend to be safer drivers no matter what it is they drive. The answer to safer driving is drivers being more aware of the task at hand and honing their skills, not the avoidance.

I agree with all the above, but Honda has reintroduced an automatic transmission in their motorcycle lineup. I watched a review online about their new Africa Twin, it has automatic as an option. I don't know if Honda is testing the waters or if they believe automatic trans motorcycles are the future. Ferrari did away with manual trans years ago. I think I read somewhere you can't get the new Vette with a manual, or at least not yet. The irony is "Boomer" has become somewhat an insult lately.

[67ChevyRedneck]

GM has confirmed there will be no manual trans option for the C8.

I believe that leaves the Camaro and a handful of Colorado's. I give it one more redesign cycle before they're completely gone from GM.

Technology is moving more and more towards self driving cars and apparently, a computer can't work a traditional clutch.

I still have a passion for Manuals. I converted my 65 Mustang to one, my 68 Firebird will stay one. I have a NV3500 for my C10 in storage, but contemplating leaving the 700R. Not because I don't want it to be manual, but the cab and legroom are so dang small, I kind of remember it being a little uncomfortable to drive before I converted it from a 3spd manual to 700R.

I would like to see at least 20% of every vehicle sold be a manual. Even minivans. Kinda hard to text and shift.

[truckster]

I'd like to have a manual in my Z28, but that will have to wait until time and finances are right.

In my Blazer I like the automatic. One of the overlooked advantages of an automatic transmission is its ability to match torque to conditions (because of the torque convertor), especially at low speeds, and it works well for the way I use my Blazer. I've owned many trucks, and while I like rowing the gears, I'm happy with my current situation.

[Tom]

Its simple: inflation and wages not going anywhere mean only older, established people can afford new cars of any type these days. Older people tend to be tired of doing work, since they've been doing it so long to get to the point of affording said new cars where they choose the options. So they all choose automatics, because lazy.

Its literally the reason you can't buy a manual Ferrari anymore. They cost more to develop and certify then they make selling the few people actually buy.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by truckster

In my Blazer I like the automatic. One of the overlooked advantages of an automatic transmission is its ability to match torque to conditions (because of the torque convertor), especially at low speeds, and it works well for the way I use my Blazer. I've owned many trucks, and while I like rowing the gears, I'm happy with my current situation.

That was the line of bull "they" sold me when I was young and stupid (but I repeat myself) and bought my first new 4wd pickup. Within months I started realizing my mistake. Yeah, it makes it real easy to drive off road at first, until you start getting into real binds. That ability to automatically "match torque to conditions" means that it always puts out a certain minimum amount of torque, and you can't pull it down by selecting another gear and lugging the engine. So you have plenty of torque but no traction and now it is time to get out the jack and shovel and boards or maybe the winch line if you have one.

Automatics lead to bad habits IMO like continually stopping and starting on rough stuff. Just put it in low/low and crawl along, pick your line and keep going very slowly. Plus L1 and low range won't hold you back on a steep enough hill like granny and low, so now you're using the brakes and maybe sliding. Get sideways and you are rolling over for certain.

That said, I have two automatic and one manual 4wd. That's just an accommodation for family and the reality of what you can find used on the market.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by Tom

Its literally the reason you can't buy a manual Ferrari anymore. They cost more to develop and certify then they make selling the few people actually buy.

That may be partly true, but it's not the whole story. Technology has a lot to do with it as well. The modern automatics shift so quickly and efficiently that they accelerate faster than cars equipped with manual transmissions.

[68Timber]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

I have a NV3500 for my C10 in storage, but contemplating leaving the 700R. Not because I don't want it to be manual, but the cab and legroom are so dang small, I kind of remember it being a little uncomfortable to drive before I converted it from a 3spd manual to 700R.

I have an SM465 and pedals in storage for a similar reason, have second thoughts about putting it behind a 6.2 diesel. Worried it will make it slow to the point of not being fun to drive.

[dajn]

It reminds me of motocross. When I raced in the late nineties and early two thousands, it was all two strokes and it was intense. It's still that way for the most part with the four strokes, but it's not the same. The new push will be for electric bikes. No shifting. No sound Just twist the throttle.
That will for sure kill the sport. Just twisting a throttle is not what its about. Its about if I hit this jump in third gear tapped, am I going to make it?. I get we need to evolve. And I get that the v8 engine is at the end of it's useful life. But sometimes these so called improvements kill the sport of it.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by Tom

Its simple: inflation and wages not going anywhere mean only older, established people can afford new cars of any type these days. Older people tend to be tired of doing work, since they've been doing it so long to get to the point of affording said new cars where they choose the options. So they all choose automatics, because lazy.

Its literally the reason you can't buy a manual Ferrari anymore. They cost more to develop and certify then they make selling the few people actually buy.

My take is that Ferrari is catering to rich old men who buy them to attract some nubile women. Who else is going to drive one? My youngest brother worked at a glass shop many years ago. A Ferrari was brought in for glass work by the local dealer. When it came time to get it out of the bay, he was the only one limber enough to get in it. I wonder how the old coots do it. I have a tough time getting into my econobox!

[special-K]

Ferraris are built for sitting in garages these days so you can tell people about it at social gatherings. That and so other people in the business can whisper "He's got a Ferrari" in their partner's ear when considering signing a contract. A Ferrari doesn't sit in a bungalow garage. If you have a Ferrari you have a lot more than that. If they were made to be driven they'd have a manual transmission.

Automatics shifting so fast and vehicles accelerating so much faster is the problem. Helps make my point. Why does the average buffoon need to drive faster anywhere? Isn't that one of the many problems we rant about with all the lousy drivers these days? Now they are going faster and thinking less, not good. It's the worst thing for the thoughtless impulsive drivers. They are always thinking after the fact. "I'm sorry", "I didn't see him coming", "No one was in my mirror when I checked", "He came out of nowhere", "I tried to stop but there wasn't enough room", "I had no time to react". They keep trying to make cars safer for when people screw up and people just get better at screwing up. Learn to drive better and to look out for your own safety and that of others and you can operate any vehicle more safely than any device.

[burnin oil]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Technology is moving more and more towards self driving cars and apparently, a computer can't work a traditional clutch.

Not true. 18 wheeler's have been doing it for years with autoshift transmissions. Early models had issues with clutch life but it gets better with each generation of controllers. Although the Internals are slightly different it is basically the same manual trans they have used for decades. Then trend in 18 wheelers has been autos for fleet and owner operators still running manuals.

Detroit is comfy with slush boxes and that is what they will keep making. I have had GM manuals for years and the truck programming has been garbage since the 90s. I am a diehard manual guy and I wasn't impressed at all. No wonder GM dumped them since they were to lazy to get it running correctly. I also know guys who wanted manual dodge diesels but just couldn't find them on dealers lots. When I bought my 08 there was 2 within 400 miles of me!

[rpmerf]

Dual Clutch Transmission. An automatically shifted manual style transmission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

The US has been moving further and further toward automatics for the past 50 years. 80%+ of people don't care about driving, they just want to get A to B. This is why the most boring cars to drive are the most popular. Crossovers, economy cars.

There was a big change that came around 2010. Automatics started having as many gears as (or more than) the equivalent manual. They really got into the programming. Adaptive features to shift more according to the driver's inputs - quicker / slower shifts, earlier / later. Automatics work better with the drive by wire and adaptive whatever to think for the driver.

Part of it is in how they build cars. There is all these computers and sensor jammed in there for safety, and it raises price of the car. Who is going to buy a base model for 30K? Manufacturers then throw in extra tech to make it feel like you are getting more for your money. 19 speaker stereo system, 12" touch screen, heated seats, probably 20 other features I wouldn't dream of. Seems like there are no real base model cars anymore, your current base model has more tech than you could get in the high end model 15 years ago.

The real nail in the coffin has been that so few people even purchase manual transmissions, that it isn't worth it for the manufacturers to build a manual when they come up with a new generation of engine. It's all a numbers game. They don't look at how many people WOULD buy a manual, they how at how many people AREN'T going to buy this car because it doesn't come in manual. Those are usually 2 very different numbers, especially when it comes to brand loyalty.

You go on something like https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/new/, you see bunches of threads about how automatics are infinitely superior to manuals in every way. How an automatic with flappy paddles is like a manual but better.

I'll take a stick. I've converted a car from auto to stick once. Best mod I ever made on that car.

[Killer Bee]

this pretty much sums it up Technology meant to save us from distraction is making us less attentive.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by 68Timber

I have an SM465 and pedals in storage for a similar reason, have second thoughts about putting it behind a 6.2 diesel. Worried it will make it slow to the point of not being fun to drive.

It's really held me back too. I actually did the mod that moves the brake pedal down some (adjust the arm, make a new stop, and adjust the brake light switch) because you have to literally lift your feet to use the brake/clutch, and I'm only 5'8".

My Mustang and Firebird are completely different. Plenty of leg room for driver (makes backseat useless though) and the pedals are in the perfect position for normal and spirited driving (for me at least.) Love driving those cars. Unfortunately, I think I may be leaving the slushbox in the C10.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

That was the line of bull "they" sold me when I was young and stupid (but I repeat myself) and bought my first new 4wd pickup.

I'm definitely not young and most people wouldn't consider me stupid, but for the way I use my 4X4 the automatic is ideal. I don't rock crawl or mud bog, but I do enjoy offroading with the family.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by truckster

I'm definitely not young and most people wouldn't consider me stupid, but for the way I use my 4X4 the automatic is ideal. I don't rock crawl or mud bog, but I do enjoy offroading with the family.

I didn't say you were stupid, but I did get led astray by salesmen and magazine articles about the then new trend of automatics being available in a 4wd. Then I got out of town and got hung up a few times, and found out that the folks who used their trucks out in the real world all the time used only manuals (back then at least).

If my first brand new pickup (1973 K-20) had been a four speed then I might still have it. The only reason I traded it in was to get something with a stick shift. Unfortunately, I had to sell that one a couple years later to get out from under the payments and have some money to put into my business. Never got another new vehicle after that, and the stuff they're making now is not very attractive to me.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

this pretty much sums it up Technology meant to save us from distraction is making us less attentive.

Yep. And the more safety devices the less careful we get. The safer the cars the more dangerous drivers get.

We can't use a hand held phone because it's distracting. No it isn't. If holding a thing in your hand distracts you so much that you can't drive safely then you shouldn't be driving. The distraction is that of the mind AND the eyes! You are going to look at that phone mounted on your dash the same as when it's in your hand. If you can shift a manual transmission you can hold a dang phone and drive... or a coffee, or a sandwich, or...
So now that we can't hold phones we have navigation devices/smart phones mounted top dead center of the dashg taking you view from the road. And even worse, the entire center of the dashboard is a huge monitor command center for the vehicle. That's no distracting or anything, right? I guess we are being trained for when we can't drive at all and our focus will be on monitoring what the vehicle is doing for us. Looking out the windshield will only distract you.

[dieseldawg142]

Originally Posted by special-K

We can't use a hand held phone because it's distracting. No it isn't.

sorry Special, have to disagree on that.
just a few months ago a bicyclist was killed by a inattentive driver on the phone just down the road from me.
seen and have had multiple occasions where drivers on the phone have caused accidents or close calls.
as someone who has never owned a cell phone (or iphone or whatever their called now-a-days) i was glad to see talking on the phone outlawed in my province, and i'm not a fan of regulations or the guv getting in our business. your still allowed to use "hands free"...but in my opinion, those hands should be shifting or on the wheel...
i bet pretty much everyone on here has had a accident or close call cause someone was discussing what to eat for supper instead of driving...

[kipps]

For me, the biggest argument for manuals, is cost and durability.

A 1980's 4-speed will last 300k between rebuilds. The clutch set will last 150k. A new clutch requires $250, a Saturday of work, and a half-hour of a friend's help to stick the transmission back in again. If and when the transmission needs a rebuild, that's another $250, and you get all new synchros, seals, and bearings for that price.

Any inconvenience of shifting gears is more than compensated for, by knowing the transmission will handle anything you can throw at it. When I hear folks worrying over a $5000 transmission replacement bill, I'm quite happy to keep rowing the gears.

It seems that a lot of dollars are spent on newer vehicles, simply to avoid that third pedal.