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06-19-2018, 01:36 PM | #1 |
One of the First
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: St. Augustine,FL.
Posts: 4,054
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High Torque Mini Starters
My stock starter is going out and I would like to try something different, so I was researching mini starters, came across this guy:
Powermaster Ultra Torque Starters 9400 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9400 I know its a powerful starter for a Gen 1 / 350 running 9.87 compression. Its a mini made out of aluminum, with adjustable mount plate. I need the adjustable mount plate because I'm running a SM465 with stock bell housing. My issue with stock High torque starters is when they heat up, they dragggg. I have done all the suggested fixes, starter wrapped in thermal tape, aluminum heat shield, new H/D battery cables wrapped in thermal tape. Running Oddessy battery (always)... Blazer has been sitting for a few weeks, went to start it yesterday, starter dragged a little, thought it might be battery, ran it for a while, check voltage, good, ran for about 10 miles down the road. Came back, shut if off restart, barley turn over, put big battery charger on it, no effect, drag and would not fire. Battery is good under load test. Seems like when it heats up, it dies. Went out this morning, fired up no problem. So, just looking at different options and opinions. Thanks
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DAVID PASSMORE ST AUGUSTINE ,FL ZIP 32084 '71 SWB K/10 CUSTOM DELUXE (Chili) '72 BLAZER K/5 Muscle Truck (Mule) '72 LWB K/20 CHEYENNE (Blackie) |
06-19-2018, 01:56 PM | #2 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
I have had same problem with my 350’s.
I don’t know if I would ever put anything but a high torque starter on my Chevy’s
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06-19-2018, 04:06 PM | #3 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
I've run the Summit brand high-torque mini starters on a few vehicles. Have one currently on the 454 in the dually. Never had a heat soak issue with them, even when tucked in behind the headers on a 72 El Camino.
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87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
06-20-2018, 12:04 AM | #4 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
I've run a Jegs mini for years, never misses a beat.
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06-20-2018, 09:14 AM | #5 |
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Possible the starter brushes are shot. Less then a $10 fix the last time mine went out. And you don't have to deal with a new shim setup.
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06-21-2018, 04:13 PM | #6 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
And that will give you a chance to inspect and clean up the commutator, too.
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06-20-2018, 11:19 AM | #7 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Try the remote "Ford" type solenoid. I went thru the heatsoak dilemma years ago, and like you, tried everything. The remote solenoid fixed it once and for all. I just changed my current 85 k20 over. It sure makes installing/removing the starter easy by getting those cables out of the way. I'm in S.Arizona- summer temps 110+, headers and high compression.
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06-20-2018, 11:41 AM | #8 | |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
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DAVID PASSMORE ST AUGUSTINE ,FL ZIP 32084 '71 SWB K/10 CUSTOM DELUXE (Chili) '72 BLAZER K/5 Muscle Truck (Mule) '72 LWB K/20 CHEYENNE (Blackie) |
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06-20-2018, 12:28 PM | #9 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
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06-20-2018, 12:30 PM | #10 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Pretty easy to do. I have all my GM vehicles set up that way.
You need to pull all the wires off your starter. -You will have a heavy battery cable and a 10ga wire or two on the same heavy stud. Those will all still stay together on the new setup. -You will also have a lighter gauge wire going to the back of the solenoid on the starter. Mount the Ford solenoid somewhere convenient. All of the wires that were on the heavy stud on the starter will go to one of the heavy lugs on the solenoid. The lighter gauge wire goes to the "S" terminal on the solenoid. You need to add one more heavy wire from the other heavy stud on the solenoid to the heavy stud on the starter. Final piece is make a 10ga jumper to go from the heavy stud on the starter to the smaller stud where the lighter gauge wire was. This does a few things - - You no longer have electrically energized wires running to the starter all the time. - You are no longer pushing 10-15 amps through your ignition switch to engage the starter. The Ford uses less than 3A. - You get more power to the solenoid on the starter because you are not running it through 15 feet of wire and your ignition switch.
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87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
06-20-2018, 12:37 PM | #11 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Most importantly is that it gets the solenoid away from the engine heat, especially if you're running headers. The heat is what causes the solenoid to drag due to thermal expansion.
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06-23-2018, 08:17 PM | #12 | |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
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06-25-2018, 02:40 PM | #13 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Yes, heat soak was the issue. The solenoid on the starter gets heat soaked and it can't pull enough current through the ignition switch circuit. Going to the Ford solenoid allows for it to basically pull as much current as it needs and that helps to overcome the issue. Not to mention you also get all of your main electrical feed and charging wires up out of that hot environment which helps everything.
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87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
06-25-2018, 03:05 PM | #14 | |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
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06-30-2018, 04:41 PM | #15 | |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
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07-02-2018, 12:55 PM | #16 | |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
I know what the real issue is. I correctly solved it.
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87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
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06-25-2018, 06:17 PM | #17 | |
One of the First
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: St. Augustine,FL.
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
I understand what your saying, I installed a new MH engine electrical harness, firewall forward when I pulled engine for rebuild. I ordered a Painless Performance Remote Starter Solenoids 30203. I wanted to look at the wiring diagram to see how it works with GM starter.
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DAVID PASSMORE ST AUGUSTINE ,FL ZIP 32084 '71 SWB K/10 CUSTOM DELUXE (Chili) '72 BLAZER K/5 Muscle Truck (Mule) '72 LWB K/20 CHEYENNE (Blackie) |
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06-26-2018, 06:48 PM | #18 | |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
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87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
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06-20-2018, 01:22 PM | #19 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
I’m also running a high torque on my K30 big block 454 with headers, works fine.
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06-20-2018, 02:05 PM | #20 | ||
"I ain't nobody, dork."
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
I guess I've been lucky... I've driven Chevy Cars and Trucks my whole life (44 years) and never experienced heat soak on a starter. I have also installed headers on every vehicle I've ever owned.
Gary
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06-21-2018, 06:24 PM | #21 |
One of the First
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Gary, first time I've dealt with this. I'm not running headers, just straight dump 2.5 ram horns. I'm going to have the starter rebuilt by a shop that I have used for years. Put it back on, go from there. Got a good direction, I appreciate everyone's input, hope this helps other folks too.
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DAVID PASSMORE ST AUGUSTINE ,FL ZIP 32084 '71 SWB K/10 CUSTOM DELUXE (Chili) '72 BLAZER K/5 Muscle Truck (Mule) '72 LWB K/20 CHEYENNE (Blackie) |
06-21-2018, 09:47 PM | #22 |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
My '86 K30 with the 454 and headers heat soaks in a bad way. It will be getting a gear reduction starter at some point.
I put a Denso style CVR starter on my Jimmy 20 years ago like in your picture for the same reason, the cast iron bellhousing with it's block mount starter. I would not hesitate to do the same again. GM quit running the old style starts and I have as well. As soon as one takes a dump I usually replace it with a brand new AC Delco gear reduction starter off Rock Auto for about $75. But the cast iron bell makes the non-supported nose type an easier fit. The TuffStuff is only $151 at Jegs... My Jimmy has a 9.8:1 327 in it an the CVR has been great.
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06-23-2018, 10:51 AM | #23 | |||
"I ain't nobody, dork."
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
Gary
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'cuz chicks dig scars... My 1972 GMC 1500 Super Custom (Creeping Death) "long term" build thread. The Rebuild of Creeping Death after the wreck Quote:
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06-30-2018, 01:53 AM | #24 | |
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Quote:
On the gear reduction starter thing. Later GM rigs run gear reduction starters that are bolt on for earlier engines.
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Founding member of the too many projects, too little time and money club. My ongoing truck projects: 48 Chev 3100 that will run a 292 Six. 71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant. 77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around. |
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06-28-2018, 10:28 PM | #25 |
One of the First
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: St. Augustine,FL.
Posts: 4,054
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Re: High Torque Mini Starters
Got the Painless Performance Remote Starter Solenoids 30203 kit. Looked at the wiring diagram, makes sense. Rebuild starter, install the solenoid kit. Its time for new Battery cables. Ill have to hand make those to fit. I will get some picture once its done.
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DAVID PASSMORE ST AUGUSTINE ,FL ZIP 32084 '71 SWB K/10 CUSTOM DELUXE (Chili) '72 BLAZER K/5 Muscle Truck (Mule) '72 LWB K/20 CHEYENNE (Blackie) |
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