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01-31-2016, 10:37 AM | #1 |
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ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
I was driving down the highway. I had just come off of an onramp where I was in the throttle all the way to merge into traffic. About 2 minutes later the Blazer had one backfire and then the motor shut off. I got it to the side of the road and tried to crank it. The motor turned over just fine but it wouldn't fire up. After a few seconds of turning the motor over it lets out 1 backfire. I had it towed home and I still haven't been able to find out what the problem is.
I have the Aeromotive Stealth intake system and the pump work when the ignition is turned on. The fuel pressure gauge is reading correctly too. I originally thought it might be the coil so I changed it out but it still won't fire up. I think it might be something in the ignition system but, I'm not sure where to start. I pulled the cap off and tried to turn the rotor and it seemed to be ok, meaning I don't think the distributor shaft is broken. Although I'm not sure of anything at this point. Do you guys have any ideas of what it could be or where would be the best place to start? |
01-31-2016, 11:53 AM | #2 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Check for spark. It sounds like the module died.
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01-31-2016, 02:04 PM | #3 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
I'm pretty disappointed in myself for not thinking of that. I bet that's it. I just went and bought one. I have to run out but, I'll put the new one on when I get back.
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01-31-2016, 03:01 PM | #4 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
I'd start by checking for spark and checking timing.
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01-31-2016, 03:27 PM | #5 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Loss of spark sounds most likely to me. What kind of ignition system do you have?
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02-01-2016, 08:59 PM | #6 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
I have the ZZ502 HEI setup. I replaced the ignition module and it still won't start. I turn the key and it turns the motor over fine and after a few second of turning it backfires really loudly. I am very frustrated with this thing. I would love to have a mulligan.
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02-01-2016, 09:26 PM | #7 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Throwing money at it will get expensive in a hurry. Have you verified that it does or doesn't have spark? I assume this engine is carbureted? What kind of Carb have you verified fuel is actually coming out of the carb?
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02-01-2016, 09:27 PM | #8 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
I would pull off the valve covers and check things out while turning the engine over buy hand. Almost sounds like a timing issue, dropped valve etc...
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02-02-2016, 09:07 AM | #9 | |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Quote:
I sure hope that's not the case. |
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02-02-2016, 10:14 AM | #10 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Years ago I had a similar symptom on an olds. It turned out to be the cam gear -stripped some teeth.
As mentioned above, first check for spark (if you have a timing light you can clamp it on the spark plug cables to check for a flash). Then check the timing.
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02-02-2016, 10:43 AM | #11 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Check to make sure it didn't shear the pin in the drive gear also
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02-03-2016, 12:25 AM | #12 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Are you seeing fuel without moving the throttle?
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02-03-2016, 12:35 AM | #13 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Are you thinking too much fuel pressure over powering the needle and seat? like stated earlier pull the valve covers, my 502 ate a valve while driving also.
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02-03-2016, 11:58 AM | #14 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
I think electrical also. Check the rotor from the bottom to see if it has carbon tracking or a burn-thru, check the coil button in the top of the cap also.
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02-03-2016, 06:52 PM | #15 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
There was carbon on the bottom side of the rotor. What does that indicate?
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02-03-2016, 09:21 PM | #16 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Carbon tracking. Basically the rotor is worn out. The cap is likely in the same shape. With the distributor cap off of the distributor crank the engine and make sure the distributor is actually spinning. You need to start at basics and go from there. We can sit here and guess all day but without physically checking things one by one its hard to nail it down. Basically we have to do process of elimination to get you back on the road.
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02-04-2016, 03:08 PM | #17 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Folks already gave good advice. But after you pulled the cap, did you verify that the rotor is spinning and is not loose? I had the exact same thing happen once. Screws broke off on the rotor (very strange), so the rotor was just laying on the metal plate with the plate spinning underneath it when cranking the engine. At first glance, it seemed fine until I could lift the rotor right off! There was also quite a bit of plastic shavings underneath like the screws backed out slowly and then just sheered. After replacing the rotor, I was back on the road. The symptoms were the same. I'd crank it and eventually get a backfire because the rotor was in the right position for one cylinder with each revolution, and that would ignite the built up fuel in one cylinder and then in the exhaust. Good luck. Keep us posted. Try some starting fluid to eliminate fuel delivery.
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02-06-2016, 01:26 AM | #18 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
All engines need 2 things to run, fuel and spark. Then proper amount of fuel, and correct timing.
Get a good book on engine mechanics on diagnosis. We all look for easy fixes at first. Proper diagnosis, then replace parts with money. Buddy just spent 500 bucks on a carb for an old 4 wheeler. Did not run correctly after that. Bought the fuel petcock did not run better. I actually forced him to ride with me to NAPA to buy a fuel filter. 2 bucks later at that point I was beating him around the track on a 20 year 350 Wolverine, He was on a 2014 700 Grizzly. I learned something from him. At his expense. The only work I did was the fuel filter. Shortcuts almost never work. Spray some ether in the carb and see if it runs. I do not think that 2 buck can of ether will hurt while you are picking up a manual on that motor. |
02-06-2016, 01:51 AM | #19 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
how recently had you fueled up? i got a tank of gas that had quite a bit of water in it. truck ran for maybe 5 miles and then had to get towed. opened up the carb and there were between nickel and quarter sized water "pockets" in both fuel bowls (edelbrock carb at time) after i got everything cleaned out it fired up fine. maybe something to check.
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02-06-2016, 11:54 PM | #20 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Loads of good info here....just 1 more thought? I have not seen this so much in the chevs, but did see a 460 Ford, shear the roll pin on the dist gear. Maybe pull the dist, & take a look? Longhorn
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02-23-2016, 09:00 PM | #21 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
So far, I know part of the problem was the distributor gear. I will find out tomorrow if it trashed the cam gear too. /sigh
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02-23-2016, 09:55 PM | #22 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
I figured we would see something like that if you followed up. The cam gear is likely hurt as well. The biggest issue is all of the metal that go dumped on to the cam and crank when that gear was coming apart. I hate to say it but if I were you I would just start pulling the engine out to at least inspect all the bearings and machined surfaces. That didn't happen instantly and likely slowly dropped metal into the engine which can cause a lot of damage.
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02-23-2016, 10:47 PM | #23 | |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Quote:
I'm not really in disagreement here, But the gear on the steel Roller cam is probably OK. I agree, The metal that it made could have caused some insert damage. However I have seen many Gen 1 Vortec's & Gen 2 LT1's strip distributor gears, Haven't lost one yet after a GM melonized gear replacement, With several UOA's to prove the engine survived gear failure. If this was a flat tappet lobe failure I would be in total agreement. In the LT1 cases, They will still run after a gear failure, A couple ran without oil pressure for a little bit. I would throw a gear in it, Change the oil & filter, Drop the oil in a 1000 miles, Take a sample & send it to Blackstone Labs to get some base wear numbers. Then have a sample analyzed every oil change too see what is going on. What oil weight are you running? Stock oil pump? |
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02-23-2016, 10:59 PM | #24 | |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
Quote:
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02-23-2016, 11:02 PM | #25 |
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Re: ZZ502 died while driving. Need help troubleshooting
10-4 brother.
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