Polishing with Norton Ice--is this normal scratching?

[msg]

I have been trying to figure out if the Norton Ice system just works this way...or if I dont know what Im doing. I wetsanded 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 and then went to the wool pad in the Norton Ice system that I bought from Eastwood. Here is what I did.

1. Cleaned of the surface with a car wash to clean it
2. Took the spur tool to the wool pad and let it spin a bit to get any crust out
3. Sprayed distilled water mist on both panel and pad
4. Applied a nickel sized blob of the Norton Ice compound for the front of the fender as a start
5. Smeared it around before I fired up the polisher
6. Turned on polisher to 1000 rpm as the instructions said
7. Light in fact hardly any pressure at all from me, just slowly working the pad over left and right
8. Washed off the panel surface with car wash
9. dried it with microfiber
10. Moved to the blue pad step 2 same as above, just up to 1500rpm as instructions said
11. Washed it off with car wash
12. Dried it with microfiber
13. Sprayed distilled water on panel and white step 3 pad
14. Applied the compound to the white step 3 pad and smeared it around the panel
15. Turned on the polisher up to 1500 per instructions
16. Washed off with car wash
17. Dried with microfiber
18. Became puzzled

And from a distance its really nice, but if you look closely the scratches and swirls are showing. Am I doing something wrong, or is this normal? I wondered if the wool pad was too scratchy and I should try another system with a foam pad for the initial cut?

Ill post pics of the 2500 wetsanded state and then the final polished state with a close up.

[mongocanfly]

That looks like scratches below the paint,,,as in the primer maybe...those scratches are straight..not swirled...that makes it look like maybe they're from pre-paint
my C30 has some just like that that never would buff out....and i think it's in the primer where I didnt sand it with finer grit..but it's between the cab and bed so it not easily noticed...
There'll be one of the more experienced folks thatll know....

[nsb29]

It’s amazing how the paint can make the smallest flaw show up mongo is right they look like sanding scratches

[duramax55]

definetly scratch from the sanding pre paint, you can see the cross hatch marks.

[msg]

Thanks guys, didnt want to keep at it with the polisher. Looks like my auto paint skills are lacking.

[nsb29]

Not knowing the process in which you used this could’ve happened for several different reasons, Did you use guide coat if not you may have not got all the scratches out, did you primer over scratches? If you buried scratches with a high build 2K Primer. Even if you used a guide code and got all the scratches out the high build the ones you buried under the high build will die back and show up in the finish paint. I see people leave heavy scratches from 80 or 180 grit paper and then buried them with primer just to have them die back

[msg]

I should have been more meticulous, I used a the marker trick most of the time as a guide coat and used that all the way on the 2k up to 600 grit, then sprayed a sealer coat and wetsanded with 800, then base and clear. I have many more panels to go through and polish. At least I know where things went wrong.

[nsb29]

Don’t know what the marker trick is but It didn’t work

[skip99]

If there is enough clear you can remove them, put the panels in the sun, for a few days and let the paint sit, ive done black cars and had to rebuff a year later,

[msg]

Originally Posted by nsb29

Don’t know what the marker trick is but It didn’t work

I took a sharpie marker and made doodles all over the panel then sanded till doodles were gone.

[theastronaut]

If you didn't see those scratches before you started wetsanding then they're not leftover from the bodywork before paint. Looks like the 1000 grit scratches weren't completely removed by the finer grits. The scratches will open up and look wider/deeper after buffing if they're not completely removed.

If you have enough clear on it, try a small spot with 1500 again, you'll see glossy low spots of the scratches still as you start sanding. Sand in one direction until the glossy scratches are gone, then move up to the next grit and sand in an opposite direction until all of the perpendicular 1500 grit scratches are gone. Keep repeating until you're worked up to 2500, then buff it and see if you still have scratches showing. You shouldn't unless there is stray grit from not cleaning well enough between grit changes.

[msg]

Its likely more of a below the clear issue and me just not getting it perfect. I did wetsand that area with 1500 and there are some spots that are shiny but Im pretty sure I loused up getting everything smoothed out before the base and clear. Its overcast so its hard to get the same kinda pic but here is that area.

[msg]

same pics but contrast played with in photoshop and closed in on

[nsb29]

How do your other panels look that you have not sanded and buffed do you see the scratches in them

[msg]

Ill check them tomorrow and post a few samples

[theastronaut]

I'd definitely say it's 1000 grit scratches that aren't fully sanded out before moving up to finer grits. And two passes with a wool pad isn't enough to fully polish out 2500 grit scratches and texture, especially with Norton. I like to make multiple passes with the pad spinning in different directions to until all the scratches and texture is gone. Nsb29 makes a good point about washing out the pad- they load up with clear and stop cutting effectively so you need to keep the pad clean.


I had problems with random sanding scratches after buffing on my first paint job so I took a few extra steps to make sure it wasn't me introducing any grit into the wetsanding process. I bought an inline filter for the water hose I was using (and can see trash in the filter element so it's working), kept a constant flow of water to keep the sanding sludge washed away, stopped using a fan so no dust was being blown onto the panel, hung panels so that the surface was vertical and could drain easily, and switched to Meguiars Unigrit sandpaper that has more uniform grit particle size.

[theastronaut]

The light spiderweb/halo scratches could be towel marks, leftover scratches from the wool pad, etc. A random orbital buffer and the right pad/polish will remove those if they're only light scratches. Using the proper towels is important too, some materials are aggressive enough to be abrasive and will leave fine scratches.

[msg]

Thanks guys, I havent been vigilant on the water. Ill have to go get a filtered unit now. Something like this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-Tas...waAk2MEALw_wcB

• I will wetsand again with 1000 if its safe you think
• Then go 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 even.
• As I sand I will keep water running as I go vs how Ive been doing it which was dip the block into the water bucket and sand and as the surface felt like it needed it I would take the microfiber rag and squeeze water from the bucket onto the panel and keep sanding.
• For the towels I have only used microfiber rags, is this not what I should be using? I definitely dont want to add scratches and cause halo effects.
• Ill also wash out the wool pad. Just dip it into a hot soapy bucket and rinse out?

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by msg

Thanks guys, I havent been vigilant on the water. Ill have to go get a filtered unit now. Something like this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-Tas...waAk2MEALw_wcB

• I will wetsand again with 1000 if its safe you think
• Then go 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 even.
• As I sand I will keep water running as I go vs how Ive been doing it which was dip the block into the water bucket and sand and as the surface felt like it needed it I would take the microfiber rag and squeeze water from the bucket onto the panel and keep sanding.
• For the towels I have only used microfiber rags, is this not what I should be using? I definitely dont want to add scratches and cause halo effects.
• Ill also wash out the wool pad. Just dip it into a hot soapy bucket and rinse out?

That filter should work. Definitely keep water running to flush away the sanding sludge, that makes a big difference.

I wouldn't start with 1000 again, you already have all the texture cut flat. Just need to work on refining the scratches to a level that they buff out instead of opening up into larger valleys. You may be able to start with 2000 grit; always start with the least aggressive paper possible when removing scratches.

There are different grades of Microfiber towels. I've seen some that leave a really fine haze just like if you had wiped it down with a 10,000 grit scuff pad. For the wool pad buffing stage it shouldn't matter since you'll be using finer compound and pads to remove swirls, but you should finish up with a quality microfiber towel from a detailing company or cotton polishing cloths. Any cloth can also build up too much residue and leave light towel marks.


All of this is why I only own and drive worn original paint/patina cars now

[msg]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

All of this is why I only own and drive worn original paint/patina cars now

Smart, Ill start with as nice as I can get it and it will eventually become less of a detail that makes me crazy.

I tried out an area on the front fender today and I think it looks much better. I put in a screen until i can get a filter and ran water with one hand and wet sanded with the other..tricky and not sure im doing it right. After a polish with the wool and 2 other pads in the system it looked much better. I can still see som minimal scratching but Im terrified Ill pburn through if I keep at it. Already did on the front of the fender in a 1/4 inch spot. Now I gotta figure out how to repair that without redoing the entire panel.

[nsb29]

I would consider re-clearing your pieces if you’re sanding through three coats gusts not enough. Starting with 1000gr your going sand off the best part of two coats buy the time you’re down to 2500 and less on edges where the paint is always thinner. When I was working at Fred’s we did a lot of XKE’s and they were always black, we would start with 8 coats single stage Concept then we would start blocking with 320 people would think we were crazy but his cars won a lot of paint awards hear is a37 I did the paint on a few years ago single stage concept