S10 or other frame "swaps", why do this? Pros-cons

[MARTINSR]

Ok I hope this doesn't rub anyone the wrong way, but I see way too many guys doing this "swap" because they think it's "Cheaper" (it's often not) or it's "easier" (it's not) or that it's even "needed" (it's not). I have seen way too many newbes get in over their head with this monumental modification.

I really think this discussion if it goes as I hope it does will become a sticky and remain at the top of this forum for all who visit here will see. I think it's a very needed discussion to clarify some things. Everyone has a different "expectation" of their truck, mine is much different than a lot of other people, but some don't know what that expectation is! They THINK they know but don't really have a clue.

Lets start off with my opinion, and my expectations.

1. First off, what are your expectations, if you are building one of these trucks you need to understand that. What are your expectations, how are you going to drive it? Or better yet, how OFTEN will you drive it to need the modern frame? You may put thousands of miles on it where it's not needed for the one time you think you may.

It's like when I bought my wife's last mini van. I wanted the longer one, the one with rear ac, the one with stow-n-go seats. Then I got to thinking, how often did we REALLY need these things with our old van? Mostly only on our 6000 mile road trips for the larger body and rear ac. But 99.999% of my wife's driving is done around town. She was thrilled with the shorter wheelbase after just a day of driving, she could get around parking lots and such better. The rear ac, we have never missed it. How about the stow-n-go seats? I have a little trailer made from a pickup bed, I use that when I want to haul something. So in reality I THOUGHT I needed those things but didn't, I have never missed them in the three years we have had the smaller van without ac or stow-n-go. What are your REAL expectations?

I drive old cars because I LOVE to drive old cars. I like that they are not like a late model car that everyone else is driving. I was driving every day in a late model performance car, I found that driving this car every day, I certainly wasn't using it's performance and handling, not by a long shot. I also did some studies of traffic and stop lights and fuel economy and time on the road to and from work, that sort of thing. I found that driving fast does NOT get you there any faster if there are stop lights and traffic. It is a fallacy largely created by our seriously distorted image of time. Sooooo, driving leaving a lot of room and watching the other drivers darting in and out of traffic and such is now entertainment to me instead of joining in the lunacy.

That being said, I can drive my 1959 Rambler American with stock 9" drum brakes and 196 ci flathead with a three speed on the column and white wall bias ply tires every single day (and have for a few years) without a single reason for anything more. It is stone stock with the am radio (it did just go on the blink though last week. ) and I do it without a single problem every single day. it meets my expectations, it is all I need. I have a 1965 Buick Gran Sport convertible in the garage for when I want to go out and smoke the tires and yes I have added disc brakes to the front of that car, after all, I had different expectations of it. My wife drove a stone stock '65 Skylark with drum brakes commuting down the freeway to another city for years though.

I LOVE hotrods, I am not a "restorer nut job". My truck once had a mid engine Buick 401 for goodness sakes. I LOVE a nice blown motor monster tired hot rod.

But I drove thousands upon thousands of miles with a straight axled drum brake AD truck, it worked just fine. It met my expectations. My truck will now have a 49-54 Passenger car IFS as the theme is an early fifties period truck.


2. Does a frame swap save work? Is it easier to "just swap a late model frame under it?" That is the common thought.

A frame "swap" does NOT save time or work, it is a HUGE undertaking where as modifying the stock frame is MUCH easier. Putting new modern springs on the rear and a Mustang II front end for example is MUCH easier than doing a frame "swap". One of the big things is you can modify the old frame at your own pace. You do a little every week or month when you get the time and funds.

One misconception with the frame swap is it's making "cab mounts" for the cab, it's so much more than that!

On a frame swap you have to modify the rad support, the bumper mounts, the aprons, the running board mounts the firewall, it takes a TON of modifications to the good old AD that you bought because you dug it, all that gets modified. Leaving the stock frame under it leaves all that stuff alone (well some trimming of the aprons are needed but not much). It is a LOT less work to modify the original frame. Is it as good as an S10 frames suspension? I don't think so, the S10 is much heavier but do you need it that heavy? Again, what are your expectations?

2. Is it cheaper to do a frame swap? Well, I honestly see this as no. I haven't done a study but in just looking at it realistically, by the time you rebuild all the S10 stuff, with the cost of the chassis and with the extra metal and mods and changing over to a different radiator and all that, I just don't think it saves any money. If it does, it's not much. We see a stock S10 chassis for half of what that Mustang II front end costs in the magazine ad and it seems like a deal. But if we look at it with wide open eyes, that S10 chassis has 200k miles on it and will likely need a bunch of money spent on it to bring it up to speed. And if you were to leave all the original tie rod ends and bushings and stuff, you KNOW it should be changed, this costs money that you will be spending after you are driving it a while.

Plus, you can break down the modification of the stock frame into bites you can make along the way as you build it.

3. How does it change the resale value? I haven't done a study on this but I just have to believe a stock framed truck built well is going to be more desirable out there but that could just be my feelings coming thru. How about legality? In your state is swapping the frame then making it the vehicle that once used that frame? Will it then legally carry THAT trucks smog requirements?

Again, I know many of you have made this choice, I am not knocking anyone who did, we all have different expectations. But tell us how now after you have it done, are you happy you did it? Was it as much or more work than you expected? And more importantly, how much experience do you have doing this stuff? A full on fabricator who has done a number of frame swaps and clips of course is going to do it lickity split, but what about the first timer, how easy was it for him?

I just think we need an honest pros-cons discussion to help those who are making this decision on whether or not to do this to their truck.

Brian