Am I missing Something?

[Bullzak_83]

Just got through replacing a newly rebuilt starter, that came apart after about 2 weeks.
It was nothing more than piss poor manufacturing, But I have been seeing more and more videos on remote starter solenoids on older vehicles, where my old 70 cs10 never had one in the first place. Was it supposed too?.
I bought this truck back in the early 80's and I can say first hand this truck never had one, everything went straight to the starter, but I have been reading you have lees voltage drop and more torque to the starter. Should I be putting one on my truck?
Any thoughts on this one

Thanks,

[geezer#99]

Never stock on a gm product.
Fords and some mopar’s had them. Especially. Ford trucks.
Yes to the voltage drop. No to the more torque.

[67 twins]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Never stock on a gm product.
Fords and some mopar’s had them. Especially. Ford trucks.
Yes to the voltage drop. No to the more torque.

How is going through a relay going to be less voltage drop than a straight wire? I'm not saying you are wrong, but that doesn't make sense to me.

[kwmech]

I wish I still had the bulletin I got from GM back in the early 80s regarding this. I was working for a transportation company that had about 50 school busses and quite a few taxis. The bulletin recommended rewiring with a remote (ford) solenoid (they did not mention ford though) The school busses would always have a heat soak problem with the starter and cook the fusible links down there. Pulling the harness up, looping a 10g wire from batt cable to S and bringing up a 2g wire to the remote solenoid along with with a makeshift heat shield or wrap fixed quite a few problems alone. I also installed quite a few end braces that seemed to get left off on the assy line and were missing. Along with this was the fact if I had to crank the engine over it was a lot more convenient with the wires where I could get to them

[Richard]

Moving the solenoid closer to battery would have no effect if it and the wire is rated for the correct amperage. I would think the contacts in the solenoid would be the weak point in an electrical system. So keeping it closer to starter would be more beneficial. Getting it away from engine/exhaust heat for longevity is different point.

[mikey531]

I used a new high torque mini starter, and it has performed flawlessly. Rebuilt starters aren't what they used to be. Spend the money once and drive it !

[geezer#99]

Ponder this!
My 70 LS6 chevelle. All stock wiring. Always started. Hot, hotter never a problem. It was my daily driver for 2 years in 40 below country.
Bought a 70 L34 chevelle 8 years later. Never started hot. Changed everything. Wiring, solenoid, starter, grounds. Everything. Still wouldn’t start hot.
Wired in a Ford solenoid and never a problem again.
I assumed it was a voltage drop from heat.
If I waited half an hour it would start. Or get a boost right away and start right away.
I did get really good at finding parking spots that allowed an easy hook up for a boost.

[fdbdw]

Originally Posted by mikey531

i used a new high torque mini starter, and it has performed flawlessly. Rebuilt starters aren't what they used to be. Spend the money once and drive it !

x2

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by mikey531

I used a new high torque mini starter, and it has performed flawlessly. Rebuilt starters aren't what they used to be. Spend the money once and drive it !

Not a gaurentee.
My neighbour has a 60 gmc short fleet. Built 383. Chassis dyno puts it at 450 to the wheels. Stout motor.
Everything is new. Wiring, starter etc.
When it gets hot, same thing. Sometimes you hear the solenoid click, sometimes nothing. Wait 30 minutes to cool down, fires right up.
He tried different starters, shimming, braces, wiring etc. not cheap up here. Parts cost double the price than in the states.
I gave him a used Ford solenoid and he wired it in.
He’s had trouble free starting since last spring.

[sick472]

I can see how a fender mounted solenoid might add some voltage drop (theoretically) until temperature is considered. Most, but not all hotrod applications like to have the remote mounted solenoid, especially if headers are involved. What a solenoid does is remove the long small wire from the design and replaces it with a long heavier gage wire. The small wire is more affected by the heat where excessive heat results in less voltage through that wire. This set-up also reduces issues with cooked wiring. So, in a hotter than normal application...the remote solenoid is preferred. Keep in mind that this design makes it easier to hot wire the vehicle. I don't use them unless the GM way proves to be weak for my souped up application.

I have used mini-high-torque starters in a couple of my rides and find them to be a good option. They are smaller and will typically be further from any heat source due to the smaller size. But there main advantage is the lighter weight and higher torque. This lends itself to race cars and higher compression engines that are harder to start.

If your application is very stock...I'd spend my money on a good starter, wire it like the general did, and be done with it...OR spend a bit more and get the mini starter, but keep it wired the GM way. Mini starters will spin a low compression motor up real quick and fast...changing the way it sounds during the starting process. It sounds odd if your used to the old slower-crank-and-fire.

[custom10nut]

Don’t waste your money or time on a “Re-man” or “are-Built” starter.
Save headaches and buy the new AC Delco starter. It comes with a lifetime warranty and won’t give you the problems that to cheaper ones do

[garyd1961]

Originally Posted by mikey531

I used a new high torque mini starter, and it has performed flawlessly. Rebuilt starters aren't what they used to be. Spend the money once and drive it !

This^, a new mini starter is way better than the old rebuilt starters especially if you have headers.

[Bullzak_83]

Okay, WOW did not mean to open up a can of worms on this one.
I was just curious what the benefits might be, and no I am no electrical engineer, did not necessary mean voltage drop. I just read somewhere that you could produce more torque using a remote mount solenoid, AGAIN DON"T KNOW WHY just asking didn't think I needed one was just asking. Man YOU guys & GALS are intense....
But for what it is worth her is a link that I come across,

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com...y-starter.299/

[kwmech]

Originally Posted by Bullzak_83

Okay, WOW did not mean to open up a can of worms on this one.
I was just curious what the benefits might be, and no I am no electrical engineer, did not necessary mean voltage drop. I just read somewhere that you could produce more torque using a remote mount solenoid, AGAIN DON"T KNOW WHY just asking didn't think I needed one was just asking. Man YOU guys & GALS are intense....
But for what it is worth her is a link that I come across,

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com...y-starter.299/

No can of worms really, just years of experience on what works.

The remote solenoid helps remove some of the resistance to a heat soaked starter, but using a 2g or larger cable assists the problem. It does not make the starter more torquey per-se, but allows the starter to do its job like designed. Also helping is the fact you are bringing the additional battery wires away from the heat that have heat sensitive links in them that provide voltage to other needed places in the electrical system

[special-K]

Originally Posted by mikey531

I used a new high torque mini starter, and it has performed flawlessly. Rebuilt starters aren't what they used to be. Spend the money once and drive it !

Still plenty of talented rebuilders in the world, and I'm not talking about the production shops who supply the chain stores. I'm talking about your local benchwork shop. I have one I've used for years, various techs, to rebuild my starters, carburetors, and alternators. Always a good job done. If I do have to grab either of those part for a quick fix I pay to keep my core

The advantage of a mini-starter is the air space they give away from exhaust. Just 1" does wonders. For home building code (my state) all you need is a 1" air space between wood framing and chimney flue. I use a min-starter with my headers for that reason. Distance from heat source is the big advantage of a remote solenoid as well