03-08-2021, 03:08 PM | #1 |
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XXX Customer Order
No, not that kind of XXX....
I did a search and couldn't find much info. Looking through the build date project thread at the various build sheets, I noticed that roughly half of them have "XXX Customer Order" listed in the options section. I included two pics--one with the notation and one without the notation. Can anyone share some insight on this? Does the notation mean the truck was custom-ordered by the dealer? Would dealers sometimes custom order trucks and not necessarily as a direct request from one of their customers? Last edited by 402Bowtie; 03-08-2021 at 03:25 PM. |
03-08-2021, 05:16 PM | #2 |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
It means the ultimate (ie, "paying") customer specified the option content, as opposed to a dealer ordering generic vehicles to sit on their lot.
A couple points: a) All vehicles are "ordered". That is, the assembly plant does not create any option content or vehicle orders for production (unless they are buying them). b) All vehicles are "sold" before the assembly plant will build them. Again, that could be either by a paying customer or a dealership, or internal GM division, but as soon as the build passes the "pay point" in the shipping building it's off the assembly plants books. The plant is very focused on making that happen. c) All vehicles get a "Dealer Order Number". Even preproduction units ordered by internal disciplines, like Engineering or Marketing (or Assembly plant purchased vehicles for training) which presumably do not go through a dealer per se. The Dealer Order Number is what is tracked until the assembly plant PVI (Primary Vehicle Identifier), various build sequence numbers (body shop, trim, and general assembly/final) and VIN are established (in that order). K
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03-08-2021, 05:19 PM | #3 |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Great info! I was hoping you would share some thoughts--thank you Keith!
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03-08-2021, 05:38 PM | #4 | ||
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Re: XXX Customer Order
A quote from a previous thread, showing the relationship between the Dealer Order number and the various build sequence numbers:
Quote:
Quote:
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03-08-2021, 05:44 PM | #5 | |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Quote:
One caveat, though: Fremont built straight through, without the opportunity to shuffle jobs between body and paint, and again between paint and trim (which actually makes things more straightforward). K
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03-08-2021, 10:34 PM | #6 |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
So my Fremont built ‘70 with vin 141858 IS the 41,857th truck built in 1969?
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03-09-2021, 10:02 AM | #7 | |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Quote:
If Fremont built Chevy and GMC down the same line (Narrator: they did) and if Fremont had a different VIN sequence than Chevrolet for the '70 model year (they did) then your build sequence number would be pushed farther and farther back from the VIN sequence based on the number of GMC's interspersed in there (about 1 out of every 9 or 10 Chevy's). The farther you go into the model year the more they diverge. Plus - that assumes the truck was released into the build process in VIN order, which is also not necessarily true (ie, the first Escalade built was VIN 002, the second was VIN 001, etc. A person wouldn't know that unless you were standing at the end of the final line when they were built). There's no "locked in" correlation between the build sequence and the VIN, even though they are both incrementing up one by one (but according to different constraints). It's like trying to tell how fast you are going by looking at the gas gage. Incidentally - nobody in the assembly plant cares about the VIN. It's just another part to be added, albeit correctly, like an emissions label or a Mulroney window sticker or the right tire/wheel assembly. Everybody tracking a specific vehicle is watching (firstly) the PVI and then once it hits trim the General Assembly sequence number. The GA sequence number is the "gold standard" but unfortunately is not recorded for posterity. The VIN doesn't achieve any prominence until after the vehicle leaves the assembly plant and is released into the wild. Trying to use the VIN to determine build order right down to the one's place is assigning more meaning to the VIN than it was intended to do. K
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03-09-2021, 10:18 AM | #8 | ||
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Maybe a better way for me to say it is this:
Quote:
Quote:
K
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03-09-2021, 01:16 PM | #9 |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
I read post 4 but must have misunderstood post 5. I thought you were saying Fremont didn't shuffle the builds between body and paint, etc so the VINs would be sequential.
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03-09-2021, 01:52 PM | #10 | |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Quote:
...also true* (*assuming they were introduced into the build sequentially) - BUT - only within the Chevrolet nameplate. You've got a bunch of GMCs (with their own sequential VINs) and maybe other nameplates (with their own sequential VINs) sprinkled throughout the process messing up the relationship you are trying to create. Take a look at this again, and compare the GA sequence with the VINs. Look at what the VINs for the various nameplates are doing: Using your logic Order number QBNT06 would be the (317404-100001=) 217403rd vehicle built. But it's not. GA build sequence would be on #229920, or #329920, say, at that point, because the GA sequence number is what is counting up one by one, without exception. K
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03-09-2021, 02:05 PM | #11 |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
I am not really concerned with my VIN, the truck is a run of the mill short bed base model so it's not worth any real money. I was just trying to understand the process, which I do now. Thank you for sharing your knowledge Keith, you are a great asset to the site.
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03-09-2021, 02:35 PM | #12 |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Ah! You are welcome.
K
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03-09-2021, 09:46 PM | #13 |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Thank you for sharing your knowledge Keith, you are a great asset to the site.[/QUOTE]
I agree Keith, you are our own "National Treasure" and we are lucky to have you.
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02-22-2022, 01:27 PM | #14 | |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Quote:
For the purposes of the 67-72 build sheet, do you think block 1 "Job Sequence Number" is the GA sequence number, or block 24 "Sequence No."? If block 1 isn't the GA number, is block 1 the PVI? Is it safe to say that the VIN is created when the build sheet is created, and that is when the vehicle hits the "Trim/Final line"? Do you think Block 10 "Scheduled Manufacturing Date" is more closely tied to the JSN (i.e., prior to build sheet creation/ final assembly), or the Seq No. (i.e., when a vehicle hits final assembly)? What do you think a reasonable time was for complete production, from Body to out the door? Days or weeks?
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02-22-2022, 03:10 PM | #15 | |
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Re: XXX Customer Order
Quote:
Re: Block 1 vs Block 24: Not sure I can say, since I'm not seeing a Block 1 in the above photos. I will say that the build sheets can vary from assembly plant to assembly plant, so what's true for Fremont might not be true for Flint, for example. Also - I'll mention that while the assembly sequence number keeps counting up one by one, all of the digits might not be recorded. So if you were watching, you might see it go 9998, 9999, 0000, 0001, etc. Similarly, the operators don't write the full sequence on the vehicle. My truck might have been 113,887 but they just wrote "87" on the hood/front end Sheetmetal. Re: VIN created when vehicle hits Trim/Final: no. The VIN is established and build information published well before the build starts. The cadence might be something like: a) Dealer or customer orders vehicle - sends order to Chevrolet Central Office. b) A day or two after that - the vehicle order number is established and the final assembly location determined (based somewhat on geography, but also on option content). c) A day to a week after that - the order number is received in the plant and the PVI is created. d) A day or two after that - the PVI is rolled out to create the body shop sequence number which, for plants that build straight through, the General Assembly sequence number. VIN is established at this point. e) Indeterminate time after that (days or weeks): the build information is broadcast to all downstream users, build manifest created and printed, build sheets created and printed, and physical build started in body shop. The SPID might be printed closer to when it is installed (after body drop on Final line) but based on the same broadcast data. As far as length of time: It depends on line rate and number of productive shifts. Flint Line #1 (pickup) was building 60 jobs/hour, two shifts; 45 jobs/hour was a more typical rate. Flint Line #2 (Blazer/Suburban) was 36 jobs/hour. When I followed my red truck down the line in Flint I picked it up coming out of paint into trim (VIN install) at 4:30 pm on Monday (start of 2nd shift). By midnight the truck was complete and I drove it to the shipping building and left the plant by 1am. Body build (cab welding and paint) starts a couple days before that. K
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