Project Orange Crush (57 3100)

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Glad you guys are so confident my head is hurting just figuring my ignition system with the neutral safety switch setup

[ptc]

Originally Posted by Valarius_Starchaser

Glad you guys are so confident my head is hurting just figuring my ignition system with the neutral safety switch setup

Since you are doing it from a pretty basic starting point you should make a line diagram of each wire by color and number them with the tape on numbers and that way you know what has been completed. at the end you'll have a complete 1-line diagram of YOUR TRUCK for any troubleshooting you may have to do in the future. (see attached example)

[Valarius_Starchaser]

More progress on the harness tonight soldered a ton of splices and crimped terminal ends on for all the HEI and ignition switch connectors as well as the starter solenoid stuff.

Really not far from firing this thing up need radiator mounted and filled and some exhaust hung I did see that my intake has a large hole in the front china wall where I didn't get enough gasket maker DOH so tear that off again set base timing and give her hell for break in how many gallons you think this thirst girl will need to run for 30 minutes at 2000RPM?

Also what weight oil is really recommended looking at a lot of guys saying the most expensive SAE30 you can find and some say the cheapest not sure what to do on this because it all gets thrown out after first break in anyhow

what do you all think I should run for an inline BAT+ to fuse block Main Fuse I have some 45s laying around from the Nova but I don't know if that is large enough to run the PCM,DRAC and all the lights with a prospected heater and stereo in the future nay thoughts? 80A?

Sorry no real picture worthy progress gentlemen just a wall of text

[lower50's]

Oh I hate when Electrical thingy's don't like each other!!
5 Gallons? lol
I go with cheap oil 5W30 when I put my motors back together. But what ever you are comfortable using.
I have a 100A circuit breaker on my Jeep never had a prob I would go with 80A.

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Originally Posted by lower50's

5 Gallons? lol

To much? not enough? I really just plain don't know only V8 car/truck this hopped up I've driven is the Nova and thats a small block so no comparison I'm sure

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Man oh man gentlemen I am on a downhill run with this motor I installed the pistons upside down fixed that and had to reseal my intake again (which I did tonight) went to find TDC to set my distributor in and I'm having a hard time being confident with how I put the timing chain in I feel like I put it in 180 degrees off not thinking its a tooth off or anything just backwards as in both timing marks pointing upward

Anyone have a way to confirm if it was set up correct without taking the whole front cover off? My thought is this

The intake valve will only open once (at TDC) or near it anyhow correct? so if the intake valve begins to open and the piston at that point is near TDC and then shortly begins to fall as the intake valve hits full open is that TDC and my timing chain installed correctly?

If nobody can say a definitive way to know without removing the cover I suppose I will do that but really don't want to....

This motor will be the death of me before long with how much I have done wrong on it I must have really been sleep deprived when building it because the stoker went off without a hitch and broke in fine...

[lower50's]

Honestly even tho it's a BB at 2000 rpm it is still basically idle (no load) I would think it will burn less than a gallon but I would have 5 gallons or so to make sure it does not suck air. I believe the dots should be pointing at each other. The intake valve should start to open at or a few deg before TDC and should be closed just before BDC. Good luck with the timing

[ptc]

Gallon of gas should be good....

Take the cover off and check it.... not worth ramming valves into pistons!

and use the Kendall Liquid Titanium oils, they have the MOST ZDDP zinc in them than any other oil and you can get it for like $3-5 a qt....



GT-1 High Performance with Liquid Titanium is formulated to provide excellent wear protection, to minimize the formation of sludge and varnish, and to resist viscosity and thermal breakdown, even in severe service. It also protects against rust and bearing corrosion, and is highly resistant to foaming. All viscosity grades are fortified with our exclusive Liquid Titanium additive technology for extra protection against engine wear. The Liquid Titanium additive enhancement provides increased engine protection by forming a strongly bonded titanium shield on the surface of critical engine parts, which reduces friction and wear and helps extend engine life. GT-1 High Performance with Liquid Titanium, SAE 20W-50, also contains a boosted level of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) additive to provide additional wear protection and enhanced oxidation resistance for use in the most demanding applications. It is particularly recommended for use in turbocharged engines and in high-performance engines with flat-tappet camshafts, especially during the critical break-in period

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Originally Posted by ptc

Take the cover off and check it.... not worth ramming valves into pistons!
[/I]

I called a local engine builder he said if I put both marks pointed to the top it wouldn't matter and it would still fire and line up correctly the reason that people get them pointed at each other is to make damn sure they are lined up and not a tooth off he said with such a high lift cam when the engines actually running I could end up smashing valves into the piston even though it all cleared when spun by hand if it were on tooth off

Just looking to see if there's a definitive these are the things you look at and where they should be when the motor is at TDC or if we think I should just take the cover off and visually inspect....

I think I will just take the cover off

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Now thats the kind of stuff I was looking for ptc so does it not require any ZDDP additive or should I dump in a few ozs? Any numbers by 3rd parties to back up the actual ZDDP content?
look whats sitting on my desk now

Finding for the straight 50W it has slightly less ZDDP content than the 20w50 at 980ppm but then it has 100ppm of the titanium that is supposed to form a wear barrier and 890ppm of phosphorus not sure if that will work well I see guys say 1200ppm of ZDDP which would be zinc and phosphorus together so I'm good right?



Also having issues finding a timing tab locally due to having the 7 inch damper summit has them but not finding anything and don't care to pay for shipping on that looks like its time to order those rear rims up

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Took off the front cover and was rewarded with this sight now I can sleep well at night...



Should have trusted my past self to have not botched it up but at the same time future me would have been upset if I had and past self was being incompetent that all make sense?



electrical progress consists of adding a HEI fuse to the fuse panel with the correct Delphi pins that I got from work working at a dealership has a few perks. I'm interested to understand exactly how thie ignition system on this truck works the back of my ignition switch says it has an ACC and START location but only has a single click as if it went into my ACC position am I needing a push button to start or am I missing something any info will I need a different switch or a push button? Also can this switch even be safely operated with a 12V system... I feel like the response to many if not all of these questions will be "youtube"

Also got some more done on the elcamino big block project cam bearings in and mains gauged and torqued no time to breathe in my day lately and I love it!

[Valarius_Starchaser]

continued on with wiring hell today got all of the trans harness done "yippee" as well as most of the ignition system except the alternator not really even sure how to do it will need to find a diagram for it somewhere and the gauges not sure what exactly to do with the rear of the 57 gauge cluster's oil pressure gauge was hoping to use it but not so sure now

Also got the trans and motor all bolted up the started bolts that I go are to long "who ever heard of that?" I couldn't find any that were laying around that fit any suggestions? I've heard never not to use the knurled bolts on a starter but now I'm thinking I may need to

Got the accessories all bolted up as well as the trans output seal now all thats left on that is to get the cooler lines sorted out

We are getting close to break in time here fellas!

will have some pictures tomorrow fellas

[Kim57]

Sounds like good progress.
Kim

[II_Slow]

The accessory position may be CCW one click from the Off position.
Acc-Off-Ign-Start was the standard on older vehicles.

[Valarius_Starchaser]

II slow it appears to only have two positions for the key to turn and stop in an off and ACC on the back it has Off-ACC-Ign1/Ign2-Start not sure if I have the Ign and Starts all correct or how it would engage them...

funny how thats the hard part for me and burning the chip and getting a dip switch sorted was the easy part seems backwards to me

My burned chip can be seen inside the housing

slot on the PCM for it

All secured down

Dip switch set to my tire size

And the DRAC Module that calculates Vehicle speed and if I had an electronic speedo would control that as well

[II_Slow]

What key switch are you using?
Do you have a picture of the backside (lugs)?

More than likely, one of the two IGN positions will be hot in start position, and the other off in start position. The distributor/ignition needs power on during the starter engagement - all other stuff needs to be off for full current to the starter).

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Originally Posted by II_Slow

What key switch are you using?
Do you have a picture of the backside (lugs)?

More than likely, one of the two IGN positions will be hot in start position, and the other off in start position. The distributor/ignition needs power on during the starter engagement - all other stuff needs to be off for full current to the starter).

No picture as of now and I can't find one identical to mine it has a lug on the ACC group for the distributor or atleast thats what I think it was can't recall what it was called I will snag a picture over my lunch hour I have it wired in so I have a fuse inline to the switch then power from the switch to the fuse block then ACC Power to my fuse block things get confusing because I have the neutral safety switch for my trans in there and I dont know what line needs to go where on the back of the switch I will draw a diagram up to hopefully start to make sense when I post up the switch back

[Rude Dude]

The ignition switch from a G30 Van AC Delco D1406A or Wells LS411 fit nicely in the original hole also the factory chrome trim ring thread is the same

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Originally Posted by Rude Dude

The ignition switch from a G30 Van AC Delco D1406A or Wells LS411 fit nicely in the original hole also the factory chrome trim ring thread is the same

Will this work with my original cylinder as well it looks like it will but I don't want to assume anything I will see what local availability is like tomorrow

Tonight I got my intermediate shaft sorted the 96 jeep shaft is in fact 17mm DD shaft not 2in DD shaft so a little carbide bit work on a drill and we were in business I used an old part of the stock rage joint intermediate to make this adapter no money lost I will need to swap over my gear due to the gear spline changing somewhere around the late 80s I have a late GMT 400 gear laying around (not ideal) but its on the shelf and costs nothing for now it will do

I have been assuming my headers would fit up to this point and lucky me they sure did! I have some flange ends laying around to get my H pipe and old glass packs hooked up to (also not my ideal choice) but I can't find cheap good used mufflers so headache exhaust it is!

Got my rear rims in from summit today along with ball joint boots and a timing tab FINALLY they all said

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Alright here we go guys

Here is the back face

The key in what I am calling the off position

and what I am calling the accessory position it has no further clicks available left or right (did I put the cylinder in the housing wrong?)

And my "wiring diagram" not sure if I should use IGN2 instead of start or if it even matters


My other thought is if the key only has the two clicks then how does it start do I need a button? If so would it be inline from the start lug before the Trans NSS

[II_Slow]

I think the only way to know for sure how the switch works is to ohm it out. If you treat the BAT as common, you should be able to see what is on at each terminal at each position with a ohm meter, or apply 12 volts and measure the voltage out at the lugs. I'll bet the ACC is on in the "ON" but drops out when turned to the "START" position, IGN2 is on is both "ON" and "START" position, and obviously the START lug is only on in the "START" position. I just read something that said the 57 was different than the 55-56 and was not hot when cranking so you'll have to address that with a small wiring modification, or get a key switch that does have a lug that is energized when cranking to your points or HEI ignition.

If you are really wiring the neutral safety switch directly in line with the solenoid, make sure it is rated for the current that the starter solenoid will pull or use a relay.

Here's my e-mail if you want to use e-mail instead of this thread
m-mitchell6@ti.com

[Valarius_Starchaser]

My colleague just walked over and said I did it all wrong wonderful....

Pulling my hair out now

[Valarius_Starchaser]

I'll be honest I can build a motor a trans and paint a car all day long but you throw this electrical my way and I'm done I think I would be better off hiring this done but we all know I can't afford that better get full coverage on my truck before I plug the battery in and something lights up I suppose

As far as the NSS inline I have no idea what its rated to or how to find it or how to test the switch to see if it even works and as far as relays go I am to ill informed to even understand how they work... I followed the pin-outs just fine for my trans but now this mess is just to much to handle I'm near my breaking point here fellas 3 days and the city shows up to inspect and my truck is still no closer to starting we may need to say goodbye to the old girl soon if that's the case

[II_Slow]

Just come paint mine and I'll wire yours!

[Valarius_Starchaser]

Originally Posted by II_Slow

Just come paint mine and I'll wire yours!

I wish it was that easy

Other problem that manifested itself when I went to plug the oil pressure gauge in is that I have never seen this style fitting can it be used/adapted to work with a standard style crush sender and rubber line from my block?