Make it handle - Page 18 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

triophan · 02-19-2011, 12:02 PM

A buddy of mine has a spare '78 frame I may be setting out in the shed to do some work on... Figured I can square and level it with scissor jacks (pick up at junkyard for $5 ea) and let the reinforcing begin!

Only problem I could forsee would be the fact that I would have to run out to my truck every 5 seconds to measure parts clearances, etc. You should have your own Sub-forum, with projects, Q&A, haha... might be too much for one dude though. Keep me posted! Thanks

**robnolimit** · 02-23-2011, 04:53 PM

Well, I started to right a heavy rant, then i stopped, I'll save that one for later.

Lets talk sway bars. - anti-roll bars. The idea here is that this bar can add roll stiffness by transfering spring rate from the inside spring to the outside spring in a corner, without making the straight line ride harsh. For years we have said that sway bars are the best 'bang-for-buck' you can spend on suspension. - Still true. A swaybar's stiffness depends on material used, diameter/or/wall thickness for solid or tube bars, width between pivit mounts, length of the arms, and mounting link style and location. - lots of factors. It's easy to see that a thicker bar is stiffer than a thin bar, givin the same shape and material. Tube bars (hollow), are usually a better grade of alloy steel, so a 1 1/4" x .250" bar may be stiffer than a 1 1/4" solid, but not always. Manufacturers of quality bars should be able to provide sway bar "rate" info. One thing to be aware of is the sway bar link. This link connects the bar to the suspension. (this is going to get close to my rant topic) Think about the front bar on a C-10. The factory bar was connected to the arm with a bushing and strap - NO MOVEMENT. The bar pivits on an arc that moves front-to-back as it moves, and the A-Arm moves on an in-to-out arc. So, as the suspension travels, the sway bar is being pulled in and out, and the A-Arm/busing is being twisted to match the bar angle. Doesn't sound to good does it? Now, the stock pivit and arm mount bushings were pretty soft rubber, so it wasn't so bad, and it was cheap for GM. And, it was 1966 when the first oned rolled out. (bias ply tires, 8-tracks,...) Now, a lot of aftermarket suppliers have bigger 'performance' bars, in urathane bushings (stiffer) and the binding is WORSE. Making the suspension less consistant. Yes, the roll stiffness is greater, but the suspension is less consistant/predictable.

Some, are going to a link connection to the arm with two rod-ends. That is a step up, but a small one. The 'average' rod end will swing 10 to 12 degrees, thats 5 or 6 either way, so with a short link these may bind up, and this type of bind may be a worse feeling than stock, and actualy reduce suspension movement. To make the link long enough not to bind, the sway bar would need to be above the steering links. No, you cant just rotate a stock style bar ( even one set up for a link) because the angle of the end would be wrong. Why don't 'they' make a bar like this? Well, to me, it looks like even the best performance bars are a copy of the original bar, with a hole in it for a mount link. To get what we all would really want, someone will need to study, TEST, and stop copying the stocker. which takes me even closer to my original rant. You would'nt take financial advice from a homeless person, or welding tips from someone who never welded. Why are we all buying parts from someone who hasn't built/drivin/owned one of the things were building? Crap, some of the rant got out. Sorry.

west9378 · 02-23-2011, 05:03 PM

I am rebuilding a 1969 K20 and I want to soften the ride some. I see that you can order 4, 5, or 6 leaf replacements for the leaf springs. Presently it has 6 leafs can I just remove 2 or 3 and put airbags to make up the difference and if so how do you set them up to make sure you get the best ride along with the ability to carry a load once in a blue moon.
West

tubbedII · 02-23-2011, 05:32 PM

Rob...love reading your posts. They are one of the most informative ones out there and it's like reading a great blog. About these sway bars and the issues you are seeing with C10 versions...tell us you are working on a solution!? Your list is getting good: rear shock mounts [done], longer track bar [done], bolt in r&p [pending], lca caster mod [pending], sway bar [maybe?], rear sway bar [would love to see].

SCOTI · 02-23-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubbedII

Rob...love reading your posts. They are one of the most informative ones out there and it's like reading a great blog. About these sway bars and the issues you are seeing with C10 versions...tell us you are working on a solution!? Your list is getting good: rear shock mounts [done], longer track bar [done], bolt in r&p [pending], lca caster mod [pending], sway bar [maybe?], rear sway bar [would love to see].

x2.
Rob, you sir have my utmost respect.

skoffice · 02-23-2011, 06:00 PM

Jeez I thought you said you weren't going to rant! But I'm glad you did and I agree! Often I had wondered how they determined what a "general" rate would be for an "upgraded" sway bar. Also how consistent a solid bar would be vs. a hollow one. I've been looking at Schroeder sway bars online, hollow with splined ends and arms. You probably know of them since they're out of Burbank. It seems like a MUCH better approach, but I have no clue how to determine what rate, arm length, bar diameter etc. Seems like it could be fairly easy to bolt the bushing mounts to the bottom of the frame and check different bars and adjust the different arm lengths. Test time for JT!?

**robnolimit** · 02-24-2011, 12:34 PM

WEST9378 - Try to stick with a reasonable aproach, and you'l get good results. If you start with the leafs, lets say that the top spring with the eye is #1, and the count down from there to the shortest #6. Keep 1,2, & 3. pull #4, keep #5, pull #6. Use a hand gringer/sander to round off and radius the ends of the springs. Get some teflon liner to put between the leafs (speedway, Eaton, ..) and reassemble. Call Helwig and get a 1" rear sway bar. From RideTech, use pt # ARK2004, with a shrader fill kit. But here's the catch, when you get it done, you have to post up the results. OK?
I have some more to post up later, but i have a deadline to meat this morning. Have a great day all.

**robnolimit** · 02-28-2011, 11:44 PM

Welcome March Madness. last weekend we attended the "Run To The Coast" event in El Toro, Ca. RTTC is a pro touring tri-athelon of sorts, with an autocross, a speed-stop, and a 1.8 mile road coarse. We ran the 'Bullit and had a great time. Only two ther trucks in attendance of the 70+ competetors, Rob Phillips - Hotchkis 69 C-10, and the Magnaflow 37 chevy. Once stats are released, I'll post them up. Show season starts soon, and that means more racing for us. - I'm ready to go. Weight is becoming our limiting factor. 1. Trucks have a naturally high CG, hey there trucks, if not they would be just cars. 2. there nose heavy, again, there trucks, its in there nature. 3. there just heavy. We're at 58.7% ft weight on the 'Bullit, which is not good, but better than the 59.6% it used to be. So keep this in mind. Move everything you can, DOWN, and BACK. Now, get in the garage, and get ready for the upcoming season. See you somewhere.

1969~C-20~Heavy-Half · 03-01-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hottrucks

Ummm its the sweet spot....ok all BS aside I just couldn't refuse a freebie!!

G's as in G force....the stuff that pins you to the seat or door panel when you go into a corner...its measured in G FORCE.... the more it pins you the higher the G's...a poor handling vech will slide out in a tight corner while a corvette will stick longer..( higher G) the more it sticks the High the G force the tighter it turns....

watch those guys on motorcycles you see in the balls of steel G force is what holds them up just like a pail with water in it ...if you spin the pail over your head the water will stay if you go fast enough..to slow and you take a bath

Yeah G force, its actually not necessarily the force holding a tight corner. Keeping you in the seat of your truck, its the equal and opposite force of gravity pushing you down back unto earth as for the faster you increase your speed. The more gravity is going to push back against you depending on your trajectory and angle of tract.

**robnolimit** · 03-01-2011, 05:57 PM

Hmmm, OK, Gravity is pulling down on you, or your truck, with the force of one G. That is a static force. In a corner, centripedal, or lateral force is created when the vehicle turns. If the truck (car) was perfectly balanced, and the tires kept the contact patch perfect, then at 1G lateral it would slide sideways as soon as it overcomes 1G of natural gravity. Just remember, gravity sucks. lol. only through downforce created by air, or a bank in the corner is it possible to pass up 1G lateral (in a car, on pavement.)

**robnolimit** · 03-10-2011, 11:36 AM

Today we're heading to Scottsdale, Az, for the spring Good-Guys show. I'll snap some picts of cool stuff for you. Hope to run into Nate Porter and chat suspension and stuff. We'll be autocrossing the 'Bullit, so stop by if your in range. This is usually a really fun show.

Custom 68 · 03-10-2011, 03:16 PM

good luck it would be a blast to watch u thrash on the truck.

Dave

jimmydean · 03-10-2011, 05:05 PM

Rob, I loved seeing the shots of your Bullit tearing up the course in the Trucks Throwdown (or whatever they called it). Based on your lap times, it sounds like you have it pretty well dialed in. Nice work!

**robnolimit** · 03-14-2011, 01:40 AM

Quick update. We are victorious again! By the lunch break on friday, we had set the fast lap. Not just for trucks, but for EVERYBODY. As the racing continued, we pushed our numbers down even farther, and no one ever caught us. First Truck Class win of the season, and the overal fast lap (first time I've done that). I'll get some picts and video up soon.

chapster · 03-14-2011, 02:13 AM

Congrats Rob,

looking forward to seeing some video.....

Greywolf200 · 03-15-2011, 09:55 AM

I saw the roof of the Effie on the roadcourse and several shots of the Hotchkis truck at the Ultima Street Challenge on HDTheater but neither even got an honorable mention on air, what's wrong with these people?

djw32 · 03-15-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Quick update. We are victorious again! By the lunch break on friday, we had set the fast lap. Not just for trucks, but for EVERYBODY. As the racing continued, we pushed our numbers down even farther, and no one ever caught us. First Truck Class win of the season, and the overal fast lap (first time I've done that). I'll get some picts and video up soon.

What was the competition like? I imagine Rob's 69 Hotchkis truck was attending...

Hotchkis · 03-19-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Quick update. We are victorious again! By the lunch break on friday, we had set the fast lap. Not just for trucks, but for EVERYBODY. As the racing continued, we pushed our numbers down even farther, and no one ever caught us. First Truck Class win of the season, and the overal fast lap (first time I've done that). I'll get some picts and video up soon.

Rob,
Congrats on setting the bar high. We’ll be giving you a run for your money this season.

**chevy2tom** · 03-19-2011, 02:26 PM

Rob, I pm'd you a few weeks back about using your new rear shock/track bar set up on my 71 C20. I know you have alot going on, any info if it will fit or if you can make new U bolt brackets?
Posted via Mobile Device

Walkersan · 03-20-2011, 03:06 AM

Please don't shoot me for asking, but I keep reading about move it lower and back for better balance and lower CG. I love my V8s, but I also understand the potential power in a forced inducted modern fuel infected V6. Say something like a donor from a Camaro. Something like what Jay Leno did to his.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...6-to-sema.html

The reason I ask is this. All along I have planned on a 5.3 swap and later turbocharging it. Modernize the old truck for drivability and fuel mileage too. All this talk about low and back got me thinking about this swap instead.

Thoughts?

SCOTI · 03-20-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkersan

Please don't shoot me for asking, but I keep reading about move it lower and back for better balance and lower CG. I love my V8s, but I also understand the potential power in a forced inducted modern fuel infected V6. Say something like a donor from a Camaro. Something like what Jay Leno did to his.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...6-to-sema.html

The reason I ask is this. All along I have planned on a 5.3 swap and later turbocharging it. Modernize the old truck for drivability and fuel mileage too. All this talk about low and back got me thinking about this swap instead.

Thoughts?

Anytime you're reducing mass over-all or optimizing its placement within the chassis, it will improve things.

An alum headed 5.3 will be lighter than a traditional sbc. Is the 5.3 you're referring to all alum or cast iron block/alum heads? The better idea might be the 5.7 LS1 or 6.0 LS2 as they're all aluminum & would help offset the additional weight of the turbo related equipment. You could also opt for one of the remote turbo set-ups that put the turbo out back. The alum motor reduces mass up front & shifting the weight of the power adder to the extreme rear can help balance things.

Walkersan · 03-20-2011, 02:41 PM

Basic calculations have me saving about 100lbs over the 5.3. I don't have it yet but I believe the all cast iron block is the more common. My main reason for asking is placement. it just seems like i would be able to get the engine much lower and closer to the firewall with a v6. I would also go with a single larger turbo and air to air cooler to simplify plumbing.

This is all just thoughts in my head for now. The truck in question is still a long bed 72 super with basic suspension mods right now. CPP 2.5 drop spindles and 1 inch drop spring up front and all new ends, ball joints etc, close ratio steering box. 4" springs in rear with the long pan bar relocation set up. I plan on flipping the long arm mounts to correct pinion angle. I also got CPP's shock relocation mounts, but after reading this decided to re-purpose them to outside frame shock mounts by inverting their lower mounts and making my own upper mounts. I am just not sure if the Doetch shocks I got with the kit will be long enough. I will end up measuring ride height mounting distance and if i need longer or even shorter I will call CPP and see if they will work with me on a swap.

Oh yeah Rob, you mentioned long beds have some significant obstacles compared to short beds aside from weight I assume. I have the fabrication skills to shorten the frame and put together a short bed for this truck if it would be worth it. Would you mind terribly a summary of the short vs long bed differences and suspension geometry?

Thanks,

Walker

Scot_Douglas · 03-22-2011, 07:42 AM

One question I have that I haven't found a clear answer for is how far the motor can be moved back before you run out of realestate. I've fabbed up mounts that let me go with 1" or 1.5" of setback - hopefully I can get the 1.5" without modding the firewall.

My current suspension setup is a 93 T-bird IRS and a 2" shaved front crossmember with 2.5" drop spindles. I haven't figured out what shocks I am going to use yet, as I haven't designed my top shock mounts yet.

I also will move the fuel tank to the rear, along with the battery.

I've also added a 87 T-bird steering rack and swapped upper control arms to see the results of "poor man's caster"

- I've seen it mentioned here, but can't find actual feedback from anyone that's run that way (maybe because they died on the test run?). Figured I'd give it a try and see what I can figure out. My luck, I'll make it a PITA to drive - but I won't know until this summer when I hope to have it back on the road.

**robnolimit** · 03-23-2011, 04:09 PM

Glad to see everybody is starting to think about this stuff. V-6 could be a good choice, but remember that you need torque to get the weight out of the corner. If the turbo v-6 spins quick, you can make torque with gears.

I'm sorry about some answers that you have been waiting on, now that wer'e back from texas, I'll get back up to speed.

Walkersan · 03-23-2011, 05:06 PM

Something else I had rattling around in my head recently about IRS. With the huge reduction in un-sprung weight on a IRS, is it the overall weight that is keeping more people from using this type of setup? Complexity maybe?

02-19-2011, 12:02 PM	#426
triophan Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 61	Re: Make it handle A buddy of mine has a spare '78 frame I may be setting out in the shed to do some work on... Figured I can square and level it with scissor jacks (pick up at junkyard for $5 ea) and let the reinforcing begin! Only problem I could forsee would be the fact that I would have to run out to my truck every 5 seconds to measure parts clearances, etc. You should have your own Sub-forum, with projects, Q&A, haha... might be too much for one dude though. Keep me posted! Thanks

02-23-2011, 04:53 PM	#427
robnolimit Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA Posts: 2,226	Re: Make it handle Well, I started to right a heavy rant, then i stopped, I'll save that one for later. Lets talk sway bars. - anti-roll bars. The idea here is that this bar can add roll stiffness by transfering spring rate from the inside spring to the outside spring in a corner, without making the straight line ride harsh. For years we have said that sway bars are the best 'bang-for-buck' you can spend on suspension. - Still true. A swaybar's stiffness depends on material used, diameter/or/wall thickness for solid or tube bars, width between pivit mounts, length of the arms, and mounting link style and location. - lots of factors. It's easy to see that a thicker bar is stiffer than a thin bar, givin the same shape and material. Tube bars (hollow), are usually a better grade of alloy steel, so a 1 1/4" x .250" bar may be stiffer than a 1 1/4" solid, but not always. Manufacturers of quality bars should be able to provide sway bar "rate" info. One thing to be aware of is the sway bar link. This link connects the bar to the suspension. (this is going to get close to my rant topic) Think about the front bar on a C-10. The factory bar was connected to the arm with a bushing and strap - NO MOVEMENT. The bar pivits on an arc that moves front-to-back as it moves, and the A-Arm moves on an in-to-out arc. So, as the suspension travels, the sway bar is being pulled in and out, and the A-Arm/busing is being twisted to match the bar angle. Doesn't sound to good does it? Now, the stock pivit and arm mount bushings were pretty soft rubber, so it wasn't so bad, and it was cheap for GM. And, it was 1966 when the first oned rolled out. (bias ply tires, 8-tracks,...) Now, a lot of aftermarket suppliers have bigger 'performance' bars, in urathane bushings (stiffer) and the binding is WORSE. Making the suspension less consistant. Yes, the roll stiffness is greater, but the suspension is less consistant/predictable. Some, are going to a link connection to the arm with two rod-ends. That is a step up, but a small one. The 'average' rod end will swing 10 to 12 degrees, thats 5 or 6 either way, so with a short link these may bind up, and this type of bind may be a worse feeling than stock, and actualy reduce suspension movement. To make the link long enough not to bind, the sway bar would need to be above the steering links. No, you cant just rotate a stock style bar ( even one set up for a link) because the angle of the end would be wrong. Why don't 'they' make a bar like this? Well, to me, it looks like even the best performance bars are a copy of the original bar, with a hole in it for a mount link. To get what we all would really want, someone will need to study, TEST, and stop copying the stocker. which takes me even closer to my original rant. You would'nt take financial advice from a homeless person, or welding tips from someone who never welded. Why are we all buying parts from someone who hasn't built/drivin/owned one of the things were building? Crap, some of the rant got out. Sorry. __________________ GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others!

02-23-2011, 05:03 PM	#428
west9378 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pulaski, TN Posts: 114	Re: Make it handle I am rebuilding a 1969 K20 and I want to soften the ride some. I see that you can order 4, 5, or 6 leaf replacements for the leaf springs. Presently it has 6 leafs can I just remove 2 or 3 and put airbags to make up the difference and if so how do you set them up to make sure you get the best ride along with the ability to carry a load once in a blue moon. West __________________ West My Project and Photo Album http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=378159 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...hp?albumid=641

02-23-2011, 05:32 PM	#429
tubbedII needs more $$$ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,936	Re: Make it handle Rob...love reading your posts. They are one of the most informative ones out there and it's like reading a great blog. About these sway bars and the issues you are seeing with C10 versions...tell us you are working on a solution!? Your list is getting good: rear shock mounts [done], longer track bar [done], bolt in r&p [pending], lca caster mod [pending], sway bar [maybe?], rear sway bar [would love to see]. __________________ 1970 2wd Blazer

02-23-2011, 06:00 PM	#431
skoffice Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Elk Grove, CA Posts: 375	Re: Make it handle Jeez I thought you said you weren't going to rant! But I'm glad you did and I agree! Often I had wondered how they determined what a "general" rate would be for an "upgraded" sway bar. Also how consistent a solid bar would be vs. a hollow one. I've been looking at Schroeder sway bars online, hollow with splined ends and arms. You probably know of them since they're out of Burbank. It seems like a MUCH better approach, but I have no clue how to determine what rate, arm length, bar diameter etc. Seems like it could be fairly easy to bolt the bushing mounts to the bottom of the frame and check different bars and adjust the different arm lengths. Test time for JT!? __________________ 1964 C10 Shortened Shortbed Cammed LQ9 P&P 1967 C10 Trophy Truck BB 438 (soon to be worked on again)

02-24-2011, 12:34 PM	#432
robnolimit Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA Posts: 2,226	Re: Make it handle WEST9378 - Try to stick with a reasonable aproach, and you'l get good results. If you start with the leafs, lets say that the top spring with the eye is #1, and the count down from there to the shortest #6. Keep 1,2, & 3. pull #4, keep #5, pull #6. Use a hand gringer/sander to round off and radius the ends of the springs. Get some teflon liner to put between the leafs (speedway, Eaton, ..) and reassemble. Call Helwig and get a 1" rear sway bar. From RideTech, use pt # ARK2004, with a shrader fill kit. But here's the catch, when you get it done, you have to post up the results. OK? I have some more to post up later, but i have a deadline to meat this morning. Have a great day all. __________________ GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others!

02-28-2011, 11:44 PM	#433
robnolimit Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA Posts: 2,226	Re: Make it handle Welcome March Madness. last weekend we attended the "Run To The Coast" event in El Toro, Ca. RTTC is a pro touring tri-athelon of sorts, with an autocross, a speed-stop, and a 1.8 mile road coarse. We ran the 'Bullit and had a great time. Only two ther trucks in attendance of the 70+ competetors, Rob Phillips - Hotchkis 69 C-10, and the Magnaflow 37 chevy. Once stats are released, I'll post them up. Show season starts soon, and that means more racing for us. - I'm ready to go. Weight is becoming our limiting factor. 1. Trucks have a naturally high CG, hey there trucks, if not they would be just cars. 2. there nose heavy, again, there trucks, its in there nature. 3. there just heavy. We're at 58.7% ft weight on the 'Bullit, which is not good, but better than the 59.6% it used to be. So keep this in mind. Move everything you can, DOWN, and BACK. Now, get in the garage, and get ready for the upcoming season. See you somewhere. __________________ GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others!

03-01-2011, 05:57 PM	#435
robnolimit Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA Posts: 2,226	Re: Make it handle Hmmm, OK, Gravity is pulling down on you, or your truck, with the force of one G. That is a static force. In a corner, centripedal, or lateral force is created when the vehicle turns. If the truck (car) was perfectly balanced, and the tires kept the contact patch perfect, then at 1G lateral it would slide sideways as soon as it overcomes 1G of natural gravity. Just remember, gravity sucks. lol. only through downforce created by air, or a bank in the corner is it possible to pass up 1G lateral (in a car, on pavement.) __________________ GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others!

03-10-2011, 11:36 AM	#436
robnolimit Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA Posts: 2,226	Re: Make it handle Today we're heading to Scottsdale, Az, for the spring Good-Guys show. I'll snap some picts of cool stuff for you. Hope to run into Nate Porter and chat suspension and stuff. We'll be autocrossing the 'Bullit, so stop by if your in range. This is usually a really fun show. __________________ GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others!

03-10-2011, 03:16 PM	#437
Custom 68 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,928	Re: Make it handle good luck it would be a blast to watch u thrash on the truck. Dave __________________ Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!"

03-10-2011, 05:05 PM	#438
jimmydean Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Beaverton, OR Posts: 3,728	Re: Make it handle Rob, I loved seeing the shots of your Bullit tearing up the course in the Trucks Throwdown (or whatever they called it). Based on your lap times, it sounds like you have it pretty well dialed in. Nice work! __________________ New Project: 1966 LWB C20 Plans: 1/2 ton conversion Dropmember front Dropmember rear Corvette discs Restored raised bed http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=4295210

03-14-2011, 01:40 AM	#439
robnolimit Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA Posts: 2,226	Re: Make it handle Quick update. We are victorious again! By the lunch break on friday, we had set the fast lap. Not just for trucks, but for EVERYBODY. As the racing continued, we pushed our numbers down even farther, and no one ever caught us. First Truck Class win of the season, and the overal fast lap (first time I've done that). I'll get some picts and video up soon. __________________ GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others!

03-14-2011, 02:13 AM	#440
chapster Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: .. Posts: 455	Re: Make it handle Congrats Rob, looking forward to seeing some video..... __________________ 1967 GMC shorty Parts Pile: NoLimit, Accu Air, Kore 3, Matts Classic Bowtie, March Performance, Lokar, ScottsHot Rods, Vintage Air, American Auto Wire, Circle D, Accu Air, Borla, Budnik, Ididit, One Piece Windows, Doug Thorley, Pypes, AutoLoc, Porterbuilt, CPP, Dynamat, Dakota Digital, Fesler 1968 Chevy c10 shorty Stepper (Patina LS project) 1967 gmc custom Long Box (Farm Truck Project)

03-15-2011, 09:55 AM	#441
Greywolf200 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Mount Airy, NC Posts: 132	Re: Make it handle I saw the roof of the Effie on the roadcourse and several shots of the Hotchkis truck at the Ultima Street Challenge on HDTheater but neither even got an honorable mention on air, what's wrong with these people? __________________ Jack Byrd '70 Chev Custom SWB(new to me), 307CID(added Weiand Stealth, headers and Edelbrock Performer carb, up to 17 MPG now), 700R4 '76 Airstream Argosy MH(want a longer one), 454CID, TH400

03-19-2011, 02:26 PM	#444
chevy2tom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wheeling, Illinois Posts: 703	Re: Make it handle Rob, I pm'd you a few weeks back about using your new rear shock/track bar set up on my 71 C20. I know you have alot going on, any info if it will fit or if you can make new U bolt brackets? Posted via Mobile Device



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03-20-2011, 03:06 AM	#445
Walkersan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lee Summit, MO Posts: 16	Re: Make it handle Please don't shoot me for asking, but I keep reading about move it lower and back for better balance and lower CG. I love my V8s, but I also understand the potential power in a forced inducted modern fuel infected V6. Say something like a donor from a Camaro. Something like what Jay Leno did to his. http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...6-to-sema.html The reason I ask is this. All along I have planned on a 5.3 swap and later turbocharging it. Modernize the old truck for drivability and fuel mileage too. All this talk about low and back got me thinking about this swap instead. Thoughts?

03-20-2011, 02:41 PM	#447
Walkersan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lee Summit, MO Posts: 16	Re: Make it handle Basic calculations have me saving about 100lbs over the 5.3. I don't have it yet but I believe the all cast iron block is the more common. My main reason for asking is placement. it just seems like i would be able to get the engine much lower and closer to the firewall with a v6. I would also go with a single larger turbo and air to air cooler to simplify plumbing. This is all just thoughts in my head for now. The truck in question is still a long bed 72 super with basic suspension mods right now. CPP 2.5 drop spindles and 1 inch drop spring up front and all new ends, ball joints etc, close ratio steering box. 4" springs in rear with the long pan bar relocation set up. I plan on flipping the long arm mounts to correct pinion angle. I also got CPP's shock relocation mounts, but after reading this decided to re-purpose them to outside frame shock mounts by inverting their lower mounts and making my own upper mounts. I am just not sure if the Doetch shocks I got with the kit will be long enough. I will end up measuring ride height mounting distance and if i need longer or even shorter I will call CPP and see if they will work with me on a swap. Oh yeah Rob, you mentioned long beds have some significant obstacles compared to short beds aside from weight I assume. I have the fabrication skills to shorten the frame and put together a short bed for this truck if it would be worth it. Would you mind terribly a summary of the short vs long bed differences and suspension geometry? Thanks, Walker

03-22-2011, 07:42 AM	#448
Scot_Douglas Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Howell, MI Posts: 403	Re: Make it handle One question I have that I haven't found a clear answer for is how far the motor can be moved back before you run out of realestate. I've fabbed up mounts that let me go with 1" or 1.5" of setback - hopefully I can get the 1.5" without modding the firewall. My current suspension setup is a 93 T-bird IRS and a 2" shaved front crossmember with 2.5" drop spindles. I haven't figured out what shocks I am going to use yet, as I haven't designed my top shock mounts yet. I also will move the fuel tank to the rear, along with the battery. I've also added a 87 T-bird steering rack and swapped upper control arms to see the results of "poor man's caster" - I've seen it mentioned here, but can't find actual feedback from anyone that's run that way (maybe because they died on the test run?). Figured I'd give it a try and see what I can figure out. My luck, I'll make it a PITA to drive - but I won't know until this summer when I hope to have it back on the road. __________________ 1964 C10 - sold to chris1044 1966 C10 Build 'Fread

03-23-2011, 04:09 PM	#449
robnolimit Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA Posts: 2,226	Re: Make it handle Glad to see everybody is starting to think about this stuff. V-6 could be a good choice, but remember that you need torque to get the weight out of the corner. If the turbo v-6 spins quick, you can make torque with gears. I'm sorry about some answers that you have been waiting on, now that wer'e back from texas, I'll get back up to speed. __________________ GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others!

03-23-2011, 05:06 PM	#450
Walkersan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lee Summit, MO Posts: 16	Re: Make it handle Something else I had rattling around in my head recently about IRS. With the huge reduction in un-sprung weight on a IRS, is it the overall weight that is keeping more people from using this type of setup? Complexity maybe?

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