47-55.1 Welding a patch panel

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

I got a "jewelers torch" <snip>
Brian

Wow. These things are less than $20 on Ebay! To weld 20 gauge sheet metal, is it like 15 seconds for a single 1/8" stitch weld, or longer? Could you do a whole quarter panel with this thing?

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by DransportGarage

Wow. These things are less than $20 on Ebay! To weld 20 gauge sheet metal, is it like 15 seconds for a single 1/8" stitch weld, or longer? Could you do a whole quarter panel with this thing?

I don't understand the "15 seconds for a single 1/8" stitch weld" comment, don't get that at all. I just weld like normal. I did the welds across the roof on my truck where I lengthed it for the chop. These welds were done skipping around without waiting because the area was so large I didn't have to wait. I just kept welding. It gave me a panel with almost no shaping needed, I plannished the welds and ended up with it ready for a coat of bondo, done deal.

Brian

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

I don't understand the "15 seconds for a single 1/8" stitch weld" comment, don't get that at all. I just weld like normal. I did the welds across the roof on my truck where I lengthed it for the chop. These welds were done skipping around without waiting because the area was so large I didn't have to wait. I just kept welding. It gave me a panel with almost no shaping needed, I plannished the welds and ended up with it ready for a coat of bondo, done deal.

Brian

OK, poorly worded question. You answered it, and more. This thing can be used for big panels. It doesn't take long for a single small weld. Used correctly, it doesn't overheat the panel. I assume the weld is deep enough. I guess I'll put the mig welder in the corner with the arc welder...

[mongocanfly]

Robert of MP&C shows welding with this meco in his thread.....I bet it cost more than $20.....http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...53#post8414753

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by DransportGarage

OK, poorly worded question. You answered it, and more. This thing can be used for big panels. It doesn't take long for a single small weld. Used correctly, it doesn't overheat the panel. I assume the weld is deep enough. I guess I'll put the mig welder in the corner with the arc welder...

It's hot enough using the largest tip in the kit, the smallest, you could use it to solder on a circuit board!

The MIG still has it's place and I use it regularly on the truck. But those welds out on the large panels, the jewelers torch is my go to.

I use a short piece of 1/8" tubing in the vice and a drill to spin the .023 MIG wire to make it straight and use it as welding rod with the torch.

Brian

[e015475]

I've welded a lot of sheet metal with a Smith's aircraft torch and a small tip. Like the jewelers torch above, the gas valves are at the top of the torch handle for easy gas adjustment.

Getting the heat just right for gas welding sheet metal can be tricky. I find that I can get a little bit more 'granularity' in the acetylene by adjusting the regulator on the tank rather than the knob on the torch handle.

Some of you will think I'm nuts but I've often used bailing wire as a filler when welding sheet metal. It is cold drawn and very low in carbon. After welding it remains very ductile (the HAZ has less carbon in it from the filler and presumably less martinsites) and it is easy to planish the weld. I certainly wouldn't do anything structural with this wire for filler, though.

I think that gas welding is a lot quicker than MIG welding too - you can weld it all in one go instead of stringing all those dots together and waiting for the panel to cool in-between. Once you're done the weld is easier to grind and planish.

Just my 2 cents

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by e015475

I've welded a lot of sheet metal with a Smith's aircraft torch and a small tip. Like the jewelers torch above, the gas valves are at the top of the torch handle for easy gas adjustment.

Getting the heat just right for gas welding sheet metal can be tricky. I find that I can get a little bit more 'granularity' in the acetylene by adjusting the regulator on the tank rather than the knob on the torch handle.

Some of you will think I'm nuts but I've often used bailing wire as a filler when welding sheet metal. It is cold drawn and very low in carbon. After welding it remains very ductile (the HAZ has less carbon in it from the filler and presumably less martinsites) and it is easy to planish the weld. I certainly wouldn't do anything structural with this wire for filler, though.

I think that gas welding is a lot quicker than MIG welding too - you can weld it all in one go instead of stringing all those dots together and waiting for the panel to cool in-between. Once you're done the weld is easier to grind and planish.

Just my 2 cents

I welded a lot of stuff, like the top chop on my truck when I was 16 with coat hangers.

I have to tell you, I went back to the torch when a guy at work (an estimator in the office, YES they know something) walked me through using the jewelers torch and MIG wire for rod. Or of course using nothing at all and "fusion weld" it plannishing the gap to perfect before welding. I am BLOWN OUT OF MY MIND how much you can close up a gap! But the most important thing is making that gap perfect then welding without stopping, go the whole length in one shot. The HAZ stays so much smaller and most of all it's consistent. When you weld and stop and weld and stop the HAZ looks like a row of flowers. Well each of those welds is going to shrink different than the metal where the welds meet. If you don't stop and make that one weld the HAZ is just a straight line, you are in WAY MORE control that way.

Brian

[8man]

Martinsr, I have the purple 3M rolock discs and they worked great removing the proud part of the weld and smoothing the metal. I went with a fairly tight fit and the Easy Grind .023 wire. Welded to keep it cool, I could touch it barehanded - NOT WITH MY TONGUE, before I put down another bead.
IMG_2124 by Robert Moorman, on Flickr
This is what the door looked like after I converted it to a push button, and here it is with the handle.
IMG_2123 by Robert Moorman, on Flickr

Thank you all for the help. I think I can do this now.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by 8man

Martinsr, I have the purple 3M rolock discs and they worked great removing the proud part of the weld and smoothing the metal. I went with a fairly tight fit and the Easy Grind .023 wire. Welded to keep it cool, I could touch it barehanded - NOT WITH MY TONGUE, before I put down another bead.
IMG_2124 by Robert Moorman, on Flickr
This is what the door looked like after I converted it to a push button, and here it is with the handle.
IMG_2123 by Robert Moorman, on Flickr

Thank you all for the help. I think I can do this now.

Right on!

Brian

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Robert of MP&C shows welding with this meco in his thread.....I bet it cost more than $20.....http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...53#post8414753

That's a piece of jewelry in itself! $200-ish at Rio Grande:

https://www.riogrande.com/product/ME...MaAvSLEALw_wcB

[8man]

A quick funny. Probably 50 years ago when I was a teenager, I was out in the garage helping my dad weld on a boat trailer. He would never let me weld, just be his helper. Anyway, I had on tennis shoes and he made me go back in the house and put on some work boots. He said the welding "bb's" would ruin my shoes.

Well, yesterday I took the wife to lunch and when we got back I was in a rush to get to the shop and work on the doors. I didn't change out of my tennis shoes. I was welding along when that BB went through the shoe and the sock and lodged between my big toe and the next one. I cussed a bit, but kept welding.

So not only did I remember my dad's message, I now know why!

Oh, the shoe is fine, you can't even see where it went through the nylon mexh, but that burn on my foot will take a while to heal.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by 8man

A quick funny. Probably 50 years ago when I was a teenager, I was out in the garage helping my dad weld on a boat trailer. He would never let me weld, just be his helper. Anyway, I had on tennis shoes and he made me go back in the house and put on some work boots. He said the welding "bb's" would ruin my shoes.

Well, yesterday I took the wife to lunch and when we got back I was in a rush to get to the shop and work on the doors. I didn't change out of my tennis shoes. I was welding along when that BB went through the shoe and the sock and lodged between my big toe and the next one. I cussed a bit, but kept welding.

So not only did I remember my dad's message, I now know why!

Oh, the shoe is fine, you can't even see where it went through the nylon mexh, but that burn on my foot will take a while to heal.

I have been in this business for 41 years I have too many stories to tell! LOLOL Back when I was a kid I ran an 1/8" welding rod into my private area! This was in metal shop class at high school. I grabbed the butt of the torch with my hand that had the rod in it, pulling it toward me so I could adjust the temp. Pulled it right into my leg an inch or so away from my good stuff, burning through my pants,the pocket inside, the shirt that was tucked in, and into me! LOL Another time, I bent over sticking one INTO my leg right above my knee. I mean INTO it enough to have to PULL it out! It felt like someone had hit my leg with a bat, I went to the hospital emergency room bringing the rod with me so I could show the doctor what it was that went into me. He starred at that rod and then asked "So you heat this up until it melts and then mix it with metal you have heated up too?" LOLOL I said "YEAH, what about my LEG?" He said, there's nothing better you could have stuck into you than a piece of hot metal.

The best one in the recent years was welding at home and having my wedding ring on. DO NOT DO THAT!

I had a tiny "bb" fly over and stick to the ring. We are talking a tiny little bb like a 32nd inch kinda thing. It heated up that ring BURNING ME REAL BAD! I have never gotten a burn like that, it was about a quarter inch of COOKED flesh! HOLY CRAP that hurt for days! This photo is the second it happened, a day later it was a lot bigger with a HUGE blister, oh yeah, that was fun.

Yeah, I could go on and on like when I was welding a bed side on a late model truck and someone walking by starts yelling and kicking me because my shirt was on fire!

Brian

[mick53]

I grew up welding with OA and a coat hanger. I like TIG on sheet metal. Much softer and more forgiving. I love my smith mini torch and with some shopping they are quite reasonable. There is nothing better for small work.