whatt would it take to get my truck into the low 12's

[>X<]

i was just wonderin becaus eif i'm gonna build a truck from the ground up it better run, and i definately need to smoke a couple hondas, but they dont even break 14, so i think i'll be ok, ladder bars might be in the future plans

[Jesse 67 c-10]

Blue Pig is right in a way and so is 67 ls1. for optimum traction you want a suspension design that if it were not for weight transfer, the torque would lift the rear end of the car up under acceleration. To get optimum traction you want the lift that the rear suspension provides to push against the weight transfer from your forward acceleration. This pushes the rear tires into the ground, giving you good hook up. If there was no weight transfer the rear susp would lift, but this would just push the weight to the front, and if there was no lift from the suspension the rear would just squat and you wouldn't get the added traction provided by the lift. This is my understanding of it anyways. To save some weight, a four link rear is probably lighter than our setup, an aluminum drivshaft saves a lot, tubular front control arms, no power steering, bumpers, fender skirts, fiber glass body parts, and so on. There is lots of stuff you can do.
my 3 cents
Jesse

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Near Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. 67 c-10, Long fleet, Newly swapped front disks, 5 lug rear end, 327 v-8 with Vortech heads, edlbrock performer rpm air gap manifold, 1406 carb and comp XE 256 cam. Backed by a getrag 5 speed and 1 piece driveshaft. Finnally running, almost driving! www.geocities.com/chevy67jesse

[The Blue Pig]

While it is true that the 90/10 drag shocks are for letting the front rebound quick and compress slowly, and that you want weight transfer towards the back, you are not looking for the rear to squat. Any time the body squats, its a sign that the axle housing is moving upwards, and since it cannot lift off of the ground, the body drops, or "squats". Rear body squat does not mean that weight is applied to the suspension for better traction, but rather that the suspendion is moving up and unloading the tires, therefore minimizing traction. Now if you invest or fabricate a good 4-link or ladder-bar setup, you may be able to place your I.C. somewhere above your nuetral center line and get good pitch at launch, or even if you place it directly on your N.C. line, you will at least have no downward pitch of the body (upward pitch of the rear axle) and will save yourself a lot of time on E.T.'s. A properly setup suspension is what its all about. Well, one of the things. So yes, the shocks are all about weight transfer, and also absorbing the downward shock when the car touches the ground again, but you can have a good weight transfer to the rear, good launch, and as you said, tires slightly off the ground, without having the rear end squat. Its all about torque transfer and the route one would take to transfer that torque. Sometimes though, this is hard to accomplish, and that is why we see so many cars that squat on launch. Its just a common mistake, due mostly to appearance, cause yes, it does look like the rear would be getting the most traction with the weight of the car pushing down hard on the rear axle, but its actually vise versa, the axle is pushing up into the suspension. ok, now that I have almost written a chassis fab novel, I am done.

[This message has been edited by The Blue Pig (edited May 15, 2002).]

[lux hauler]

y'all are makin' me think.....now my head hurts!!!...lol
i need to go lay down.

[Fast Orange]

Y'all have made a lot of good points, so I figured I'd just tell you the combinations that I have done with my truck, and also what a buddy of mine has done.

Mine: 454 engine with Brodix heads and intake, Holley 1050 dominator (overkill - but it sure looks cool), Hooker super competition headers, Flowmaster DeltaFlow mufflers, TH 400 tranny w/ 10" TCI convertor, stock 12 bolt truck axles, 3:73 ratio, Auburn posi unit, 29 x 14.5 Hoosier Quick Time Pro tires, cheap O'Reilly shocks, stock coil spring suspension (no modifications) 2" blocks under the rearend and rear coil springs from a 68-72 Chevelle.

The motor is a 9.5:1 pump gas (93 octane) and dyno'd at 520 HP. Best time to date has been a 12.20 - with traction problems. It runs consistent 12.20's - 12.30's It also ran a 12.80 with 275/60 BFG Radial TA's (babied the throttle big time - I think it was a fluke, but it did happen - scared the crap outta me, because it was the first time I had taken it to the track and I thought I was spinning the tires the whole time. It was REALLY a smooth ride - almost too smooth - thought I was gonna hit the wall for sure.)

My buddy's: 383 (400 crank) with Dart Sportsman cast iron heads, single plane intake (can't remember what brand) Holley 750 double pumper (worked over by Carb Shop) Hedman headers (nothing fancy), Flowmaster mufflers, TH 350 tranny w/ 10" TCI convertor, stock 12 bolt truck axles, 4:10 ratio, Auburn posi unit, 29 x 12.5 Mickey Thompson Sportsman Pro tires, cheap O'Reilly shocks, leaf spring suspension with homemade ladder bars.

The motor is a 11:1 race gas (102 octane - I think) no dyno #'s. Best time to date has been a 12.26 or 12.27 - something like that - the weather was perfect that night and no traction problems. Normally, it runs consistent 12.60's - 12.70's, although he won't admit it.

He probably won't do too much more to his (until I go into the 11's - LOL). I'm trying to get the body in shape and get paint on it, so I'm not concentrating too much on the rear suspension set up yet.

Anyway, that's what we've done. It can be done if you want to spend the money. Squeezing the biggest tire back there really helps too. Mine is not narrowed BTW - running 6 1/2" backspacing on the wheels.

If interested there's some pictures of them in the member's rides at:
www.okceliminators.com

(I hope the link works)

Mine is the orange/gray/black '72 and his is the green '67 GMC.

Good luck!

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"Fast Orange"
1972 Chevy Stepside that will one day be finished!!

[bigjimzlll]

I guess thats why some of the old timers used to use air bags on the rear...always wondered about that

[Mike C]

Just remember, if it runs 12's and weighs 4000+#, if it weighed 2500#'s it would run 10's... Tom is on the right track IMO. If you want a race car, buy one. Truck makes a GREAT hauler!

[Wasted Income]

Blue Pig,

Thanks for the additional info, I just might have gotten smarter today.



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-Jeff

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"You might be a REDNECK if someone yells 'Hoedown' and your girlfriend hits the floor"
-Jeff Foxworthy

'69 C-10 LWB (hot rod)
'67 C-10 SWB (hot rod in progress)
'92 K1500 'Burban (daily driver/tow vehicle)

[NSANE68!!!]

I can't believe no one has brought this truck up. Truckin build WORLDS FASTEST STREET TRUCK, supposed to be over 900hp on pump gas, with a 300hp squirt of NOS, and it's street legal. They are shooting for a 8 sec street truck, but have not ran a follow up yet. It sure is bad a$$ lookin though.

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68chevy, 95step bed, euro taillights, fastbags, fully shaved, phantom grill, 350 with a small huffer, TH350, 12bolt Auburn posi 4:11's......... 95 Chevy Tahoe (PHATHOE) all mouldings and emblems stripped, 4/4 drop, Niche Bellas 18's, billet grill, Euro taillights, clear corners, billet antena & wiper covers, leather interior, Pioneer cd, alpine amp, Rockford 15's.......... 97 CBR 900 RR, everything that is aluminum was polished or powdercoated candy purple, 6 color change Chameleon paint at $300 a pint(ouch), custom one of a kind under seat exaust, hand cut decals, runs 11 flat at 126mph FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!!!!! ............ my toys at http://communities.msn.com/NSANE68Tr...s/shoebox.msnw

[Mike C]

This little truck runs in the 7's. I remember when he did drive it on the street, but that's been years ago.


He still races it, but built a late model Camaro as he needed to be more aerodynamic to be competitive.

[This message has been edited by Mike C (edited May 16, 2002).]

[GEARMAN]

The soft rear spring idea does work great on 12 sec trucks. All the intense suspension talk is not necessary for everyone. My friend and I built his 71 Chevy Longbed on a budget with the dish cast piston .040 over 350 block still in it since he bought it. The motor is 9.3:1 or so with ported double hump 2.02/1.6 heads. victor jr, 650 double pumper,Hei-MSD 6AL,hooker 1-5/8,.480"hyd cam 230@.050"Lunati,10"TCI,TH350, 12 bolt posi 4.88,15x8 welds 28x11.5 dryrotted used slicks NOT TUBBED, STOCK OLD SUSPENSION with much lighter 72 ElCamino rear springs cut for ride height. It has weight reduction like harwood hood ,lexan windows no bumpers,racing bucket seats. battery and fuel cell in rear of bed. It runs 8.12-8.13's in the eighth with 1.69-1.70 sixty foots. translates to 12.7 ish quarter. It squats off the line and leaves real hard but levels off after that. My truck is a 84 S10 with only slapper bars tightly adjusted again my original leaf spring(took out all other leaves) my motor is a mild 406 and I run 11.6's (7.37 eighth) with 1.59 60 fts. I pull the wheels a little and my ass end is soft and squats off the line although my travel is only a few inches. Trucks can hook hard and run fast without fancy expensive redesigned suspension. THESE SUSPENSION MODS ARE ALMOST FREE.

[The Blue Pig]

Hey Gearman, I hear ya. I also run stock suspension with lots of torque and launch power, I dont think anyone on a reasonable budget would really be able to afford the modes necessary for the type of launch I was referring to, unless they are awesome fabrication guys. I was simply putting in my two cents when the gentleman before stated that his buddies rig squatted and "planted the tires" real hard. It is definitely not going to slow you down by a couple seconds (well, depending on the times you run) but you will recieve the most amount of traction. Oh well, anyways. On to bigger and better stuff. It has been great being able to ramble on endlessly and feel like I think I know what I am talking about...hmmmmm

[feg05]

My friend runs a s-10 with stock 10 bolt leaf spring suspension. Has a modified 355 with stock 461 cast iron heads, all stock body and interior. His best time was 12.18 in the 1/4. That was with 8" slicks. The truck squats off the line and hooks hard with 60' time of 1.62. Trucks can hook with the right tire and weight transfer

[tom hand]

Ok It is time for me to poke the fire again. To me 12's is a magic number in drag racing. Why? Because you can take a respectable street car that runs good,drive it to work all week long and on Friday night you can drive to the track and with only changing your rear tires, run 12s without a bottle. Now I want to hear of someone doing this in a 67-72 truck. And I don't want to hear those " My cousin's bother's stepnieborinlaw know's somebody that" stories. LOL

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72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail
Olive Branch MS

[oldred]

Ok, I've had enough. "The only reason to have a 67-72 chevy truck at a dragstrip is to pull the trailer that your drag car is on." That's an ignorant statement. If someone wants to race their truck, what's the big deal? Going to the track is about having fun, and enjoying your hobby.

You may be able to take your street car to the track an run 12s without the bottle, but the next guy will beat you because he has a bottle, and the next guy will beat him because he ran slicks. The point is, it doesn't matter what you build, a truck or a car, there's always going to be someone who spends a little more money, and a little more time, and is a little bit faster than you. But I think there's real satisfaction to building a truck that can run well at the track. Sure it takes more work than a car, but who cares? If that's what a person likes to do, then I say go for it.

But then again, I may be biased...

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1967 Chevy shortbox

[Smooth68]

AMEN olred!

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Prost68trk web page
or btshaffer@wmconnect.com
'68 short/wide, 402BB/TH400, '81 rear frame rails, F@rd 9" 31 spline, leaf springs moved inboard, shaved firewall, cab seam, wiper cowl, dash, hood ridge, chrome drivetrain.
'97 Z-71 Ext-cab Driver
West Fork, Arkansas
IM - btshaffer (will soon change)

[fast_dev]

if only this post came a month or so later i would be able to show you a race truck and a tow vehicle, both being of the correct era. my 68 short fleet will soon have a 406 small block with 11:1's dart iron eagle heads, victor jr., 750,muncie 4 spd etc. making 475hp and will be street legal being pulled on the trailer (just in case of breakdown) by my 70 longhorn with factory 402, 4 spd, and air conditioning. i'll be sure and post pics when i get the motor back from the machine shop, im hoping for 12's. Dev.

[lux hauler]

I think I might be able to break into the 17's with my '72......as long as I didn't break traction from running through the puddle of oil left at the line

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72 long fleet
GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.!!!
http://communities.msn.com/196772ChevyTrucks
Vermilion, Ohio eagle571@hotmail.com

[>X<]

thanks for the advice, i am not planning on running mine at the track more than once or twice, but it'll ahve to beat every honda around here, theres only two or three hihg 11 second rice burners around here, if i stay away from them i will be able to beat alot of the people that think their car is fast, i just said 12's because i hink 12 is a very fast truck, by the way, what do lightnings run? without slicks?

[feg05]

I agree that if a guy want do build a truck to run at the drags, that great. We all know that you can go faster with a more aerodynamic car with less weight, but I think that we all own old trucks because they are unique. We all own them for different reasons. But this post deals with speed,It's his choice what he does with the truck. If you see a camero at the drags, you don't pay much attention because there are a lot of drag cameros, but if you see a full size truck, no matter what time it runs, it will get your attention. A truck or car that runs 12's is by no means a drag car. It is a very fast street car. Personnally, I would rather have a truck that runs 12's, that I can drive on the street, versus a 8 second car that isn't street legal (Trailer Queen). I like to show off my hard work on the weekends at the local cruise in, not only at the drag strip. With all the comments about how to go fast, and that there is always someone faster, remember the majority of the drags are bracket racing. It takes consistancy, not speed or time to win. I think some have lost sight at what the original post was: To get into the 12's, not build an all out drag vehicle. I've built a 75' GMC shortbed(I know I'll hear about how it's not a 67'-72', but we all love chevy trucks here, right) that has a 468 big block (541hp.) th400, 3.73 12-bolt, that will easily get in the 12's. I know it's not the fastest, but it's still a TRUCK.

[UNCLEBOB]

I meet a guy that races at my local track in his lightning he is running 13.40s with nothing modified yet.

[SCOTI]

You mean someone would have money left over to modify a lightning after making the payment??? Anyone ever read about Chuck Samuels of 'Fastimes' out of Illinois. He had a 65 'camino a few years back that was plain jane looking & ran low 9's w/only 9" slicks & a stock GM 4-link & was streetable. I've seen several 'racecars' @ the track that couldn't touch that. Big block w/a bottle & you can hit 12's easy. I would rather have a plain street truck that clobbers unsuspecting opponents @ the track & leaves 'em wondering what the h@!! just happened. I believe the truck that was on that website discussed earlier used drag radials not street radials & in the DOT tire class for 5.0 racers Dwayne Gutridge ran consistent 1.50's for 60 ft. times w/325/50/15's BFGoodrich Drag Radials & fact f**d 4-link geometry. Money, time, & tuning are what it takes no matter what the vehicle is.

[mikep]

The guy with the website is able to get into the 12's because he doesnt have a hell of a lot of low end torque with those heads he is running. Its a very well balanced motor but with 320 cc intake ports and a fairly radical cam he isnt going to be building torque until he hits at least 4000 rpm .When he leaves the line he's probably getting nil for wheelspin then his power band is coming on like gangbusters on the top end. Its a lesson I learned years ago running a 351 cleveland in a 70 cougar. Those 4V ports are huge and even with a cam approximately the same as that guy is running I was running mid 12's with no wheelspin with radial TA tires. I was blowing away guys with torquey built up 383 chevies in camaros because they were smoking it off the line and losing a second or three. That truck he's got is probably miserable to drive under 30 miles an hour with those 320 cc ports though. Ive got 200 cc ports on my 68 and they are on the edge of what I would considerable streetable for a daily driver.

[SCOTI]

IMO for it to be true street capable & perform well also @ track requires walking the fine line & there are several good ways it can be done. Less torque to keep from blowing the tires away @ the start line w/lots of top end is what it takes w/trucks.

[bbs1965]

we have street trucks that run mid to high 6's in the eigth down here in Texas.
Tagged and inspected drivers!

your 402 should be able to achieve an 8.50 motor and a high seven with a little spray.
If not you built a boat anchor.
sorry eigth mile junkie here.

the only weight you need to lose is the caked up grease on your crossmember when your engine is out.
run a mini spool with some 3.08's 150hp pill should get a high 7. get the front end where it will pull up 6 cyl springs soften the backend( wore out springs, run some good slicks and your there. If not you went to conservative on cam and carb . Save yourself the headache and run a 850 double pumper,mallory ignition. the challenge to make a big block truck run 12's isn't much of a challenge. Try making a small block truck run 12's that were driveability and all comes into play. The 3500 converters don't like traffic lights. LOL.