Opening A Can Of Worms

[ed455]

There was quite a discussion on realoldspower.com about oil a while back and some engineer or chemist (maybe one of each) gave compelling data as to why Rotella is the best oil for all engines, gas or diesel. It was very informative. Can't seem to locate it now. The gist of the discussion was the API-C4 rating of Rotella and the super high detergent level that keeps engines cleaner longer.

[lock]

This like many other topics end up with varying opinions. All I suggest is that if your curious, try both and get your own opinion. A debate of synthetic vs dino, American car reliability vs Jap, etc can go on forever!

[nu2-72]

LUV2XCLR8, my reasoning is this.
Many synthetic oils claim 25,000 miles between changes. That means "complete" exchange. They still recommend a filter change every 3,000 miles. Most filters being of a 1 quart capacity means 1 filter and 1 quart oil replacement every 3,000 miles.
Synthetic oil would use 5 + 7 = 12 quarts of oil and 8 filters in 24,000 miles.
Conventional oil would be 40 quarts of oil and 8 filters for the 24,000 miles.
Contamination is the biggest killer of oil with breakdown second. Synthetic breakdown is maybe ten times less than that of fossil oil and contamination is equal. So you can change the filter to clear away the dirt and run the synthetic oil longer before a total changeover.
This is from discussions that I have had with GM engineers at some seminars.
Off topic but look at the wear in a carbed engine and a fuel injected engine. I have a fuel injected engine in the shop now that outlived the truck and will rebuild standard. Don't have any carbed engines with 150,000 miles that will do that.
Lubricants and fuels (fuel delivery systems) are very much improved in recent years.
You have to decide.

[69ride]

just pick whatever apeals to you. Hell I buy castrol GTX because the name sounds cool and it is an oil I can afford.

[72 CustomCamper]

What I do in my 277,000 mile Toyota is use 4 quarts of Shell Rotella and 1 quart of full synthetic. That works just like using 5 quarts of synthetic blend. The Rotella is 15W30 and even with that many miles it only looses 1/2 a quart in 4,000 miles...

Chuck

[LUV2XCLR8]

WOW , I KNEW I WAS OPENING A CAN OF WORMS , THANKS GUYS,

[weasel29gm]

Oil and gas, burn drip out of holdin' tank and use neighbors used oil!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!! Used Pennzoil for 20 yrs and lost one motor. Start on one kind and stay with it. I change 4-5k and got over 100k on my 99 S-10 and it don't burn or leak a drop between changes.

[Longhorn Man]

We have an indipendent oil lab we use at the desiel shop I work in. I have seen test results first hand.
How about this...typical late 80's fuel injected 305 (maybe it was a 350?) in a 300,000 mile old caprice. (engine rebuilt at 150K for sh!ts and giggles)
Conventional oil...3000 miles, test the oil. It was OK, but needed chainged.
Mobile one...10,000 miles (that's not a typo) and the oil was cleaner than the conventional oil.

I don't know how, nor why it works so well, but I tend to believe lab results. When the lab can tell you that you have traces of a certian metal in the oil, and even tell you what to look at in the engine, (as far as piston tops, rods, bearing surfaces) then i feel they know what they are doing.
For the record, this lab is an indipendent lab and they accept nothing from the oil companies.

Also, fram oil filters are junk. They are almost like just an orange can on the bottom of the engine...they don't hold much dirt.
Wix is the best in the 'normal' filters.
Again, mobile one has the absolute best filter on the market costing something like 15 bucks...AC Delco has the second best filter, and it is only about 10 dollars. (These do NOT exclude the exotic type filter)

I argued these points listed in above threads for years, and resisted the trend, and flat out called ppl stupid for going 10 - 15,000 miles on oil...but I saw the lab results, i know the guy doing the tests...I believe him and his testing.

[jorgensensc]

Quiet folks, if you look closely you just may be able to see the elusive rare Longhorn Man in his natural habitat, the board. He has been missing for awhile, but occasional enthusiast may seem him in the wild surrounded by others of his own species.

On a serious note, I agree with what Longhorn said, again.
Shawn

[Harold Shepard]

My wife's car has had only mobil 1 in itsince the the first 3000 miles, my truck,2000 GMC has had only castrol syntec in it since the first break in. My brother swears by valvoline synthetic blend says it gets better milage than anything else- I only use castrol 20-50 in 71 BB truck- t all depends on what you believe will be of the most benefit to your vehicle. Dad never changed the oil in his 70 ford w/302 and stupid thing went 200,000 miles eventually needed valve seals, uncle used pennzoil in his dodge dart 300,000 miles no problems- its all about what you choose to believe in as to which one is best, I have seen the Dyno tests featuring royal purple n engine rear and trans, but they did not test everything else on the market did they?? wonder what that means???? you decide what is best for you because you have to drive it and maintain it, right?

[jcueckert13]

do not use synthetic until the engine is over at least 3000 miles. i know a few people who have built engines and will not use synthetic untill after 15000 miles

[RON WOODGEARD]

ANDY'S HOME, Get The beer cold and hide the Women, (or is it hide the Beer, and get the Women Cold ?) Welcome Back Andy !!!!!!

[Huck]

Got to get my .02 in---. My cheep preference is Castrol because it is a high detergent oil and is very effective at keeping the things clean. I've used Mobil 1 for years and it is excellent especially in the extreme cold as it stays thin verse most coventional oils. Porsche and Mercedes use Mobil 1 in their cars. Porsche uses aluminum alloy engines including the cylinder wall---which is impregnated with silicon crystals so that the rings never really touch metal!! I ran my 928S4, 32vlave, 4 camshaft motor on Mobil 1 and often ran it well over 150mph and over 6,000rpm with not a peep of trouble except with the law.
When my 97 C5 corvette 6 speed would give me some shifting issues, I went to my trans shop which the owner suggested I switch over the Mobil 1 Dextron replacement which he uses on his vehicles. When I did, ALL my shifting issues went away!!!!
So, when I can afford to run Mobil 1, like when Wallmart runs their $4.qt special, I use Mobil 1. next best is Castrol. I will not use Valvoline, or any Penn based oil due to the parafin buildup I've seen time an again. My .02 based on 69 cars/trucks and 41 years of driving.
Oh yea, had a boss who owned a machine shop who bought a new car every 2 years, traded in the old one and never changed the oil--just added it about every other week. ---never had an engine failure but then again, I wouldn't want to buy his used car!!!

[sbc350gearhead]

True synthetics have better resistance to extreme hot and cold temps. They have better resistance to oxidation, and have a higher natural viscosity index. They also have better solvency and surfactant qualitys. True synthetics usually have a better and stronger additive package, which allows them to be used for extended drains, and often gives them better anti-wear and friction reducing properties. Today's conventional oils, are world's better than those made 20 years ago, and there are many, many engines that survive to a ripe old age on conventionals. Synthetics are superior, but there is nothing wrong with a good conventional changed every 3k.

[sbc350gearhead]

I almost forgot. Redline, RP, and mobil 1, are all excellent oils, but they use very different chemistries. Redline uses a very very expensive polyolester base oil (also used in jet turbine oil),and has a very very stout and unique additive package. RP uses poly alpha olephin basestock (RP's API approved oils use some conventional carrier oil for the additive package) and a more typical additive package, along with the synerlec additive........which is a mystery as to its composition and function. Mobil 1 also uses PAO basestock (no conventional carrier oil) with a typical additive package. Each of these oils have their own strengths. RP racing and Redline dominate drag racing due to their robust construction and high levels of friction modifiers. Mobil 1 is factory fill in many cars, due to price, performance, and availability. Mobil also makes a 0w30R, which is a nascar bred racing oil that is now available to the public..................but it's about 7-8 bucks a quart, and it isn't API approved.

[kbs71]

I'm a newbe (just registered but been reading for about 6 months). I bought a Toyota T-100 new, at 35,000 miles I took it to the dealer to have the head gaskets replaced. I saw it when it was torn down, it wasn't "gummed" up yet but was begining to show signs (I had been using Castrol GTX in it from new), anywho, after seeing that I switched to Mobil 1. Ran about 70,000 more miles (to a little over 100,000) and had to pull the heads again because of a siezed sparkplug in the head. Other than a light brown coating, the heads looked like they were brand new. I swear by Mobil 1, use it in all my vehicles.

I also work for a commercial airline, where they have been using synthetics for decades because they handle heat better and provide better lubrisity than carbon based lubricants. We have engines that produce 700 degree heat and run non stop for over 12 hrs, I can tell you without synthetics that wouldn't happen.

Another thought, less reliance on fossil fuels is GOOD!!!!

[obsesive23]

Well here's my .02c. Start with what ever regular motor oil to break it in. Then I would recommend trying "amsoil" (no I'm not a dealer) I just know that I but that stuff in every lube spot I can put it. In my daily driver a 91 mitsubishi eclipse gsx turbo I was eating trannys about every other year ( I'm not nice to this car!). My friend told me to try it and the tranny shifted smoother. I then tried it in the motor and I got an average of 8-9 miles more to a gallon. That convinced me. Now I put It every where I can. This is just my opioin and we all know about those...

[oldsub86]

I run Mobile 1 in both of our Toyotas. My wife's car is an Avalon and I look at that little aluminum thing with all those valves and think I wouldn't want to pay to rebuild or replace it so I run what I think is the best oil. It can't hurt.
I am also running the Mobil 1 in my older Toyota 4Runner for similar reasons. Toyotas can be expensive to fix and I plan to keep it a long time.
In my Chevy pickup, my old F**d car and my son's older Honda Accord, I run good quality dino oil. I try to change all of them fairly regularely and hope for long engine life.
I think the synthetic has an advantage when it is really cold or really hot. The rest of the time, I doubt it has much of an edge. I'm in Canada where we get really cold in the winter. I can't see running the synthetic part of the time so the vehicles that get it, get it year round.

[sam's 72]

I work for a major oil company, BP/Amoco. I am a operator. I work in the chemical sector, our plant is right next to the refinerie. Part of my job is making a walk through on the unit checking oil levels in pumps, motors, compressor, gear boxes, and centrifuges machine. We use synthetic in every single piece of rotating equipment out here. About four years ago, they sent all the operators to a lubrications class. In this class, I learned a little bit about different oils. I will share it with you. The guy putting on the class explained it to us like this. The differance between dino oil and synthetic. If you were to take a lot of different size balls, and through them out on the ground, all different sizes, and then put a piece of plywood on top of the balls, to move the plywood from point a to point b. Start pushing the plywood, it will roll with out touching the ground, but since all the balls under it is different sizes, it is not very smooth, the plywood gets kicked up and down the whole time you would roll it with these different size balls under it, there will time also that some of the balls never ever come in contact with the plywood, because the bigger balls are holding it up and off of the smaller ones. This would be the effect of dino oil. All the molicules in dino oil is not the same diameter, they are all different sizes. Now lets take that same sheet of plywood and put it on top of a bunch of balls that are all the exact same size, every single ball is the same, now start pushing the plywood from point a to point b. It rolls very very smooth, and it comes in contact with every single ball under it, since it contact every single ball under it, that is why the synthetic last longer between oil changes. All of the molicules in synthetic oil is the exact same size. None of this has nothing to do with oil additives, both oils , dino and synthetic have basically the same additives, the additives are different between brands. What they use out here in all of this rotating equipment is Moble one synthetic. This equipment gets rans for 5 years straight with out shutting down some times.
one other thing the guy said in that class, is to never ever buy a blend ( like synthetic blend ) and never ever blend synethetic with dino oil, the reason for this is money. You are just wasting your money, remember, the dino oil has different size balls under the plywood, if you through a bunch of the same size balls in there with them, you would still have the same effect trying to roll that plywood, it would not be smooth, due to the different size balls.
Any way I thought this was pretty interesting on what I learned in that class, so I wanted to share it with you guys. I personally use synthetic, royal purple. I use that brand cause I get a deal on it from a friend that sells it.
Sam

[tommydsplace]

MOBIL 1