New Project 57 Chevy panel on 78 chevy frame

[T-P Auto]

oops both the new shop !!
lets try again

[G&R's57GMC]

What is(are) your welder(s) ?
What wire are you using ?

The type of welding you are trying to do is best with a TIG welder .

[T-P Auto]

Hello;
The welder I have is a wire feed HF with .030 wire.
I do not have a mig welder to use.
So which of the two welds looks the best n the best to use.
Here are a couple of pics to show the differents.
Pics 1 2 & 5 are with the HF wire feed.
Pics 3 & 4 are gas weld with coat hangers.
With the gas weld I use a hammer n dolly after each short weld.
Try to keep the heat down to stop warping.

[G&R's57GMC]

Either way you’ve got your work cut out for you .

Do a spot here then on over there and over there and so on then come back and do it again. When I say spot that’s what I mean not a bead . Sure it will take more time to weld but less to finish .

[dsraven]

before going further do yourself a favor and get the old surfaces down to bare clean shiny steel on the front AND back sides. otherwise you are bringing in contaminants to your weld and it will pop and sputter and leave porosity in the weld.
spot weld, all over the place, like G&R is saying. like simply a spot of weld and move on to a cool spot. if you wanted to you could spot and then quickly hammer on dolly to expand the hot weld before it cools and shrinks leaving a distorted panel. spot here and there all over and ensure the panel isn't heating up as you go. it's good to have something else to do at the same time so you don't try and hurry the process. a hurried job will likely cost you more time later when it comes time to get it straight. hot spots in the panels shrink when they cool.

maybe try a smaller gauge wire if possible. I find larger wire tends to weld cooler, sputter more and not get a good penetration. there is also a wire that is better for bodywork because it cools softer so less brittle. not sure about the wire feeder style though. are you talking about what looks like a mig welder but no gas? like a flux core welder? pics?
an auto darkening helmet is also a good to have thing, like c clamp vice grips, magnets (they do, however, distort the weld if trying to weld right next to the magnet. they work good to hold panels in other spots than the weld area) long vice grip c clamp pliers, a wire cutter to keep a chisel tip on the wire so it starts the arc right away, small disc grinder with flap disc assortment, die grinder, sheet metal welding clamps to hold the panels together, cleco fasteners. I could go on. it all costs bucks though. I have assembled my collection over many years. wouldda been nice to have it all back in the day though. I have done lots of sheet metal and body work with literally nothing for tools except whats laying around. claw hammer, chunk of steel, old car parts made to be a dolly, etc.

check this out, maybe some hints here.

https://www.musclecarrestorations.co...eet-metal.html

you could try turning the amps up a bit or travelling slower so you get penetration and not such a cold weld (it just looks cold to me, maybe it is penetrated? no back side pics yet). do you have some pics of the back side? you can also use a heat sink on the back side. I have some flattened out 2 or 3" copper pipe from a scrap bin at a plumbing shop that i use for that. flat like fully squashed. I have several different ones with different shapes for different projects.
keep the pics coming. you're working through it, soon it will be done.

[dsraven]

the copper on the back side won't allow the weld to stick to it so it works well on the "gap" areas between the panels.

another site for tech tips. it shows those sheet metal clamps as well as some of the other tools and also a pic of the tack welds.

https://www.restore-an-old-car.com/m...eet-metal.html

[dsraven]

maybe check this chart for the wire size you may need for the type of welder, type of wire (flux or no flux) and metal thickness. your fender is probably about 18ga.

https://bakersgas.com/pages/recommen...ire-size-chart

[GreasyLikeaBurger]

That looks like FluxCore wire. I assume thats what you mean by wire feed with no gas. Flux core does not leave a clean appearance and the slag needs to be chipped/knocked off.

[T-P Auto]

Hello;

Well I found out what I was doing wrong.
A friend come by n I told him what I was having problem with. He looked at the weld I had down.
Then he had me get two other small sheets of the fenders n put them together with my clamps.
Then he did a couple of welds at different setting.
Come to find out that I was on 1 feed min heat - wrong
He set it at 1.5 feed on min heat - better
Then he set it at 2 feed on min heat - better
Then we went to 2.5 feed on min - burn thur
So found that I as to low feed. I all so had not cleaned the back side of the fenders so will do that before I start on the NEW black fender.
So if this setting works out - I'll post NEW pics.

Thanks Guys:
T-P Auto
Tim

[T-P Auto]

Hello;

Hope that this NEW setting will work for me; will try it tomorrow n see.
Really Do hope it works.
I have a lot of welding to do - comming up is replacing the whole front of the cab from the wood floor to firewall. On the bad cab (early post)
Then still have all the bullit holes to fix.
Want to try to fit front 57 car head lite into the fender. ! ! !

T-P Auto
Tim

[Second Series]

It sounds like you will use the wire feeder, I don't have one. I do have an oxy-acetylene rig that I am getting used to using. I don't know about the coat hangers, you might want to get some welding rods. I found this video of welding sheet metal with oxy-acetylene, looks good. Welding starts 20 minutes in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHR2BoVrWlg

[T-P Auto]

"HAPPY NEW YEARS"

Hello;

Have been working on the fender- try to get the old weld ground down an smooth- takes a lot of time.
When useing a 4.5 grinder with stone.
Have not started on the other(black) fender yet.
It has been cold here-at 71 I'm stay in a lot - staying warm.
Have heater in shop - about 50 degrees - able to work but foot get cold.
Still need to do a lot of installation in smaller shop.

Just a up date for now! !

"HAPPY NEW YEARS"
everyone

T-P Auto
Tim

[mongocanfly]

I kinda skipped thru the replys , but I think most has been covered...
using copper for a backer will greatly improve the weld quality
if your using flux core, if possible,don't, get gas shielding and it will greatly improve...not saying you cant flux core , but gas is better
I did my share of thin metal welding and used both .023 and .030 wire..the.023 did better on the thinner metal if I used the copper backer..
when grinding , don't grind your existing metal, grind only the weld you added.. I found the best way was what mp&c recommended ..use a cutoff disc in a air grinder..hold the disc 90deg to your weld seam and it will allow you to stay on top of the weld and off the fender metal...hammer and dolly your welds..when you weld thin metal it tends to draw up..hammer and dolly to stretch the metal back out..

[gigamanx]

After doing some floor pans and a four link kit in the 49 along with some significant body work on the Model A, I'd say I'm one step above amateur haha.

Using a 220v MIG welder with gas was a game changer. It gave me far more control and confidence in my welds. Especially when it came to doing the 4 link. I'd recommend the Hobart 190 every day of the week. Still a great workhorse and I currently use 0.30 for pretty much everything.

An inexpensive 4 1/2" grinder with some flap discs will speed up the clean up process immensely. My restoration buddy said the difference between an expert welder and an amateur welder is in how much time they use a grinder haha.

I like the use of those sheet metal clamps, but use WAY more of them and move them around the piece. Aim to spot weld only about an inch from the clamp so the panel is perfectly level.





Spot welding to keep the metal cool. They almost look like drops as opposed to laying a bead


First pass clean up with flap disk. You can see a few edges left behind so I go back and add a few spots at the lowest setting on the welder.


Second pass with flap disk you can barely see where the weld seam is. Skim coat of bondo before paint and you'll never know it was there.

[gigamanx]

To someone elses comment, I love this thing...use it all the time when I need to bridge a larger gap or a drill hole. Some of these tools seem expensive, but for the amount of metal work you're doing, it's a worthy investment to have the right tools for the right jobs.

[oldman3]

Tim, sorry I've haven't posted on here, but have been watching your build...Jim

[T-P Auto]

Thanks everyone;

I DO appreciate the comments both the good and the bad.
I have NEVER try to do what I'm try-as you all can see. ha ha
I just want to build something different then a reg 57 chevy panel look alike.
Going to try to see if my skills are as good as my thinking.
Still have a long ways to go on this project.
Looking for a project date the 1st of April to have a rolling project- frame n body mounted together to roll.
Still have to cut the front part of cab off - then cut the pu cab in the same place- then put the two parts together.
Still alot of work to do on this project.
I DID order new door latches/stricker plates - new hinge pins - new double door locks for the front.
Still thinking about the back barn doors ! ! !

That is the up date for now.
Hope everyone had a wonderful Xmas n New Year.

T-P Auto
Tim

[oldman3]

Tim, looking forward to the changes...Jim

[dsraven]

did you get your parts cab home? how does it look?
if you are gonna do a cut and paste firewall and/or front section of cab, etc, you may wanna get the door hinge pillars good enough so you can hang the doors and get them fitting well. maybe some new or rebushed hinges as well, so everything is nice and tight. then cross brace the door openings and the cab from side to side, behind the doors, so things stay put. then you may wanna massage the opening so you can slip a windshield into the opening, with some short pieces of the old rubber placed here and there as spacers, just to ensure it is shaped like it should be before cross bracing that opening as well. do a few corner to corner dimension checks to ensure things are square. since the firewall is bent along with the cowl and windshield opening this could be a challenge to get the doors on properly but the last thing you wanna do is a bunch of work to get a new front section of the cab installed and then find out the windshield and doors don't fit because the cab wasn't symmetrical when you welded the new stuff in place. the other thing you could ponder is possibly getting some sheet metal bent up and replace the whole firewall with a new part, with no holes, and that allows you to build in as much of a offset into the firewall as you need to fit your engine choice. some guys even use a steel wheelbarrow shell for the offset because it is shaped sort of like you need and can be made to look like it was supposed to be there if you round the transition from firewall to shell.
anyway, just a few thoughts. my 57 cab was rusted almost as bad as yours. I didn't have the firewall or cowl damage though. those parts are also available in the aftermarket. I suggest you take your time if cutting and grafting another cab face onto your cab because these old trucks were not made to all the same exact specs like a modern vehicle can be. that means a door that fit perfectly on cab A may not even fit the opening on cab B. also, there can be distortion from heat etc when removing single parts from donors. take your time, drill out spot welds if you can rather than use the grinder or torch. watch out for the lead filler especially found, in greater depths, around the top of the A pillar to roof. also, some of the joints may be brazed which makes them harder to separate without heat and heat warps panels.

post pics, it keeps us all interested in your build.

[dsraven]

curious, what is the plan for the front suspension and stance/ride height? I ask because the lower trucks usually have the axle center line moved ahead to get the wheel to look right in the front fender opening. this is due to the opening not being the same shape in front of the wheel as it is behind the front wheel. as the body is lowered over the wheel it tends to make the wheel/tire look like it is stuffed into the back side of the wheel opening. different tire diameters can have the same effect. since you have changed the wheel opening in the fender I am curious if you had things basically all put together with the ride height already established and you had this running in the back of your mind. possibly you are placing the wheel opening where it fits well and you will change the axle center line when the time comes?

[dsraven]

have you checked out the video on a shrinking disc? here is a video link. kinda cool idea. I have one and use it for the final metal working. you just need to remember it is for the final finishing and small high spots. otherwise you can overshrink the larger section of a panel if trying to use for a bump that is too big. some guys have also used an old clothes iron to achieve the effect of heating only the high spots and then cooling that hot spot quickly so it shrinks faster than surrounding metal.
the trick with the huge felt marker is another trick I have used for years to find high spots. I personally use a long piece of plywood with no foam between the board and the sandpaper strip. this allows for a straighter panel because the sander doesn't conform to bends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgS_zWdZz5g

[T-P Auto]

Hello;

Once I get to the black fender(P51) I will clean both side to clean metal-learned something;
I'm useing a flux core wire feed- had not cleaned both side on the other fender.
Will use a lot more gap clamps(P51) when I do weld the fender in - hope the new setting will give me a better weld.
Will look into getting a copper pipe for backing on the fender welding.
Pick up a 3' grinder from HF for grinding on the weld - had been use a 4.5 grinder. Have been use a hammer n dolly on the weld area.
Still have to do the 4-link on the rear end to frame - just not there yet.
I'm going to cut the old(yellow) cab off all the way back to the ridge in the floor. (pic) this is the panel cab.
I found that I have a floor mount right under the area I'm going to cut out - will have to do some triming around the cab mount. (pic)
Will brace the top.door openings the side to side with 1' sq tube on the panel truck then do the same on the red cab.
The red cab (new) will become the cab area for the panel truck. (pic)
I have to replace the whole front cab area to save money n time.
I will take a couple of pic of the door opening - windshield opening - then fill in with measurements to go by when replacing the cab area. (no pic)
I have ordered NEW door hinge pins,strikers n latchs for both doors- with a NEW set of door keys for both doors.
Will work out the fire wall once I get the cab removed n reinstalled.
I'm using the front frame from a 78 chevy 1/2 ton po with the rear frame from a 50 chevy 1/2 ton truck- flatter frame then the 78 pu. The rear end will be out of a 95 chevy pu. Will put 4-link with coil overs on the rear. The wheel base will be 117" from center to center of the wheels.
So here are the pic to help show what I have to do.

[T-P Auto]

More pic to go by.

[T-P Auto]

The 4-link is not on my rear end - just shows what I have to do to my frame n rear end yet.

T-P Auto
Tim

[_Ogre]

nothing wrong with using a fluxcore welder, you just do 10x more grinding than the mig guys do
don't know if you've read thru my build, but i used a lincoln weldpac 100 fluxcore welder
on all of the frame and most of the body modifications on my 58 truk
it's definitely the hard way to do it, but it keeps cost down and you'll never run out of gas

i do think your jumping around, working on unimportant stuff like front fenders
when you have a firewall, floor and pillars to fit and weld in
that said, i built/customized my bed first
you do have a 58-9 radiator support and inner fenders, not sure they'll play nice with 57 fenders
firewall is 58-9 just keep that in mind when you mount the hood hinges, holes are different