What are show quality trucks REALLY worth?

[LEEVON]

$20-30K. I think you see many more highly optioned, original vehicles selling to collectors in this range than customized.

I did see a very original, but tastefully modded '72 swb at a show recently that the owner was asking 29.5K for and I would have paid it in a heartbeat.

[AusTx68]

No way in hell I would give $75k for this truck but that's just me.

Originally Posted by MAK191

$75,000 for this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...fCarsQ5fTrucks

[7dguy]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

You mention show quality and restored, but you don't discuss your ability to make it that way. It takes a very skilled individual to truly restore a vehicle properly. That means knowing the process that is used to correctly finish metal parts and apply it where it should be.

I don't have my resume handy but I'm skilled enough to know the difference between bringing something back to original, day-1 condition and just making something pretty. I appreciate authenticity more than most. I like rare finds and unusual options. The market is littered with really nice trucks void of documentation and born-with authenticity. My question was an attempt to determine what original reso's are actually selling for as it seems there are damn few of them out there. And while I appreciate originality, weighing my energy vs. outcome on a financial level seems a responsible excercise at this point. Again, there's an incredible time and cost difference, depending on which way I go. Auction results are a poor metric of comparison for several reasons so I was hoping for examples.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by 7dguy

Auction results are a poor metric of comparison for several reasons so I was hoping for examples.

How so?

[7dguy]

Hmmm off the top of my head...

Buyers pay a 10% premium, as do sellers. Buyers and Sellers have to factor transportation costs into their numbers. Many times there isn't a full opportunity to investigate the history of the car being auctioned. Geopgraphy plays a big part. For examplem, Monterey, California will undoubtedly draw different bidders (and sellers) than St. Charles, Illinois. There's a great deal of emotion that goes into the bidding process itself and the "mood" changes many times throughout an event. In many cases, contingent the sales are negotiated in the tent outside before the car rolls across the block or shortly thereafter. Lots of stories of straw bidders and there are LOTS of phone numbers exchanged before and after a car is sold. From a buyers standpoint there is generally limited inventory relative to exactly what they are looking for at any particular event, so they might be more inclined to act impulsively. While I like to see what cars sell for at auctions, I'm never entirely trusting of the values. But that's just me.

[Shane]

I disagree. Auctions are text-book examples of the market determining the price and not the seller.

Everything listed is a variable that is known "up front" by both the bidder and seller even before the bidding process starts (included costs, locations, shill bidding to drive up selling price, etc). It is very carefully calculated into the selling price by both parties during this process therefore it is a VERY big part of the value of a given vehicle.

A seller can claim whatever he wishes as far as a reserve price goes, but the moment a vehicle reaches its maximum bid level then it has exhibited it's maximum worth/value on that particular day.

And that price is determined by the buyer, not the seller.

[Already Gone]

I tried to attach the link from the expired Ebay page but couldn't and whether you agree or not Stacy Davids Copperhead 67 was probably as good a restored/resto/mod truck as you could find and I'm sure it brought a few more bucks cause it was Staceys' and built by him and it sold for 67,300 on Ebay.

[7dguy]

Originally Posted by Shane

I disagree. Auctions are text-book examples of the market determining the price and not the seller.

Everything listed is a variable that is known "up front" by both the bidder and seller even before the bidding process starts (included costs, locations, shill bidding to drive up selling price, etc). It is very carefully calculated into the selling price by both parties during this process therefore it is a VERY big part of the value of a given vehicle.

A seller can claim whatever he wishes as far as a reserve price goes, but the moment a vehicle reaches its maximum bid level then it has exhibited it's maximum worth/value on that particular day.

And that price is determined by the buyer, not the seller.

I’m not suggesting that I find auction results irrelevant I love auctions…I’m watching a Mecum live feed as I write this. But when both sides pay at an auction, the buyer is willing to pay more than the sale price and the seller is willing to accept less. I can’t imagine ever buying a collectible car without having met the seller. If you have ever tried getting complete information on a car being auctioned, it’s not easy. You’re very lucky, if you meet the actual owner in the tent before it sells. All this before considering geography, ego or emotion. So I think buyers and sellers are both handicapped in an auction environment. Again, just my opinion.

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by 7dguy

I don't have my resume handy but I'm skilled enough to know the difference between bringing something back to original, day-1 condition and just making something pretty......

I'm not asking for your resume, just asking in general. I feel that most builders that have the knowledge to restore on correctly, also have an insight of what the market will bear.

I tend to agree with Shanes perspective on the auctions. Buyers with the means to pay a premium price are prone to purchase from those sources. Where else can you go to find that many quality vehicles in one spot?


I will bow out of the conversation as I see it is headed toward the typical debate of restored vs custom, and diminished return on investment. I will say that I will never agree that a truck that has been accurately restored to "original" will ever bring the profit that a "mildly modified" and updated restoration will net.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

I will bow out of the conversation as I see it is headed toward the typical debate of restored vs custom, and diminished return on investment. I will say that I will never agree that a truck that has been accurately restored to "original" will ever bring the profit that a "mildly modified" and updated restoration will net.

I agree. If it were a muscle car, the game totally changes. The trucks just don't seem to have the demand the muscle cars have as far as OE restored and original survivor numbers matching high price sales bring.

[7dguy]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

I will say that I will never agree that a truck that has been accurately restored to "original" will ever bring the profit that a "mildly modified" and updated restoration will net.

From what I have gathered, very well said. And my guess is the scarcity of a '70 Big Block, 115" CST will not attract much of a premium either. Considering my bias toward originality and the condition of the truck, it seems almost wrong not taking it all the way back to day 1. But the economics suggest that NOT going nuts on every nut and bolt would be more prudent.

[N2TRUX]

I promised to bow it, but allow me to offer an example of my theory. There is an older gentleman that is a retired GM Engineer that brings a truck to the FT Worth Goodguys every year. He builds them himself and has the paint work done by someone else.

He usually builds a very clean SWB 67 or 68 that is pretty original but not at all "restored" to original. He converts them to 5 lug with power disc brake, adds a/c, power steering, etc. Quit often they have a later model motor as well. Essentially he builds them with the updates and mods that "most" of us do ourselves. He sells every one that he builds and has a waiting list for the next one...

[ChevLoRay]

In my opinion, the value can be what the market will bear...or what someone will lay on the table to purchase it...or, it could be what your insurance will give you if it is totaled. If you have a ton'o'money in it, and you don't have it insured for what it would cost to replace it....then it's only going to be worth what your insurance company will give you for your loss.

In my opinion...THAT is what is worth. If you want it covered for what you believe it to be worth, you gotta start with an appraiser who is recognized as a "knowledgeable person".

[7dguy]

I'm looking at another truck and spoke at lenght with an appraiser today who cited one sale of 28K and another of 22K within the last 12 months, being the highest two confirmed transactions HE is aware of. He claims a median sale of 11K and an average of ust over 6K. Thought it might be relavent given the nature of this thread. He also noted that the market continues to decline rapidly. Met another guy who has better luck selling to Europeans.

[Jobe72]

Do you think there is anyone out there that looks at that truck and says " oh my god, that is exactly what I've been looking for!!!!"

Originally Posted by MAK191

$75,000 for this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...fCarsQ5fTrucks

[VA72C10]

Originally Posted by 7dguy

I'm looking at another truck and spoke at lenght with an appraiser today who cited one sale of 28K and another of 22K within the last 12 months, being the highest two confirmed transactions HE is aware of. He claims a median sale of 11K and an average of ust over 6K. Thought it might be relavent given the nature of this thread. He also noted that the market continues to decline rapidly. Met another guy who has better luck selling to Europeans.

I think he's looking at a very limited sample base. There are trucks that have sold on barrett jackson for more during that timeframe and if you check ebay completed listings there have been trucks that sold in the 60's range including stacey david's as mentioned...

That being said, the market is declining on the higher end vehicles. The cheaper vehicles seem to be going up right now actually. I saw (in and around my area (VA/NC/MD) several driveable (needing full restos) trucks selling for 500-700 a few months ago...now they're back to 1000-1500

[rob32472]

Originally Posted by Jobe72

Do you think there is anyone out there that looks at that truck and says " oh my god, that is exactly what I've been looking for!!!!"

I do everytime I look at my truck!

[magwakeenercew2jh]

For a bunch of reasons, including geography, access, and need, I made friends with Mark and SAtan at Early Classic Enterprises during the (non-correct) resto of my last REAL truck, a metal-floor '72 SWB with a 350/350/350
(Ha!...The middle one is the HP) .

The primary reason we made friends is that they were WONDERFUL to this rookie while I was building. Going waaaay further than just a bunch of folks that make a living from selling parts.
Aside from the friendship, which in the long-run has been more important to me than the truck, the result was that the truck made a really large and nice "reader's ride" spread in Classic Trucks (March of '04) and landed on the ECE website.

I was proud of the truck. But, alas, doo-doo happens. The truck was sold as a part of my retirement plan. I went down to ECE to check the bulletin board they have on the wall. I asked the guys what they thought I sould sell it for.
They said, "Write down what you have in it".

I didn't want to do that. I was already depressed enough by the realization that the proceeds of the sale had to go to spring me from the ball and chain of a 42-year work span.
But I did. It came to just over $26 large. Not a show truck, mind you. Okay, enough of a truck to win a couple of local get together shows. But not like many that grace the pages of this Board.
So, I made a list and then told Mark and Stan how much I had in it.

They both (if I remember correctly) piped up at the same time: "Cut it in half!!!"

After that, I took it to one more show. I put a for-sale sign in the front and rear window. Talked to the usual suspects all day. It won. The next day, a local guy called.
He came and drove it home for $12,000.

Point: The trucks bring what they bring on the day you sell them. As an investment, I absolutely believe that a lousy rate on a CD is a better idea. I respect the perspective that questions
how much to put into a truck...or even car for that matter (especially if it's a '79 falcon station wagon).But our investments are made not so much for the pure dollar value of the net.
The "value" is a little more esoteric. Much like a trip to Europe, or wherever, it's about the experience.
Including the pleasure (HA!) of the build.

I should know...I'm lame enough to be doing it all over again.

Here's the first one. A few more that you can "click" on at http://www.magwa.org