In-truck Head Removal - need advice

[highperf4x4]

No don't worry about that trough. Just let the carb gasket cover it up but make sure you have the thick gasket. The one that's like 1/2" thick. It's an exhaust crossover.

As for running rich, you can lean down the idle jets on the carb. I wouldn't mess with cleaning the top of the pistons. At least nothing more than spraying on some carb cleaner and wiping off what you can with a rag.

That 1/4" ring around the top of the cylinders that you're talking about is a "ring ridge". It's caused by excessive cylinder wear from the piston rings. How thick is that ridge? It probably means you're going to get alot more blowby and that a full rebuild will be in the near future. At least you will have the heads done already and you can drive it a while first.

If you don't mind me asking, how much was your total valve job and did they do a 3 angle grind?

[Rippin-J]

HiPo4x4-
the whole service - gaskets, shims, clean bolts/heads, guide lining, valve job (3 angle), resurfacing - was $375, which I feel pretty good about.

I am including a pic of the piston heads I took today while cleaning them where you can really see this 'ridge.' When we're putting it all back together I will double check, but if I recall right my pistons only come up as high as that ridge because the center of the piston has that slight domed shape that protrudes all the way to the top of the cylinder. that means that the circumference of each piston actually stops at that line just shy of the rim. Does this make sense? (I am praying it does b/c I would prefer to have a good bit of time before i end up in a full rebuild situation!!). But look how clean I got the top of the piston (it was pitch black before).

Anyway, got the heads painted up this afternoon (and the tops of my tables!!), decided to leave the manifold at the shop and have it cleaned for $20 so I can make that look like new again too. Also got hooked up on the gaskets because the guy gave me a full Fel-Pro engine rebuild gasket set for the price of head gaskets!! He just robbed the timing chain gasket out of it and gave the rest to me. $50 (I priced the full sets out at around $150!!)

[crm318]

I cleand the tops of my pistons (and anything with carbon, gunk or oil) with gel type aircraft paint remover and a small paint brush. The carbon just falls off.

[highperf4x4]

Rippin, that ridge is created by the piston ring. A freshly bored cylinder will be smooth all the way to the top. The dome of your piston should protrude slightly from the block up into the combustion chamber of the head. The bottom of that ridge is where the top of your piston ring stops. You can go to the summit racing website and look at a pic of a piston and you can see how far that top compression ring is from the top of the piston. Should be about 1/4" not counting the dome.

[Rippin-J]

well bummer.

does it make any difference that when I clean off the carbon it's perfectly smooth there?

sorry if that's a dumb question, just trying to get an understanding of what exactly is going on. thanks for your patience!

CRM318 - how do you clean that gel out of the cylinder when you're done? I've used that stuff on my Triumph Bonneville project to remove paint and it's pretty awesome stuff (but scary how strong it is).

[mrein3]

I had a can of NAPA gasket remover once. I oversprayed some on top of the pistons on a valve job I was doing. It did a fine job of taking off carbon. I simply wiped off what I could. The rest was vaporized when I fired the engine back up.

[highperf4x4]

Rippin you don't have to worry about that ridge. It's just an indicator of how much cylinder wear you have. If it's not sticking out where you can hang your fingernail on it then it's really that bad anyway. As for the carbon, it's no biggy either. Your truck is a 3/4 ton and if it was used to haul loads or pull trailers or whatever then it would have carbon build up anyway. Anytime you load the motor it will create more carbon. It doesn't necessary mean the carb needs adjusted. Sometimes that carbon will cause the engine to "diesel" when you turn the key off as it creates hot spots that continue to ignite the fuel after you shut the switch off but yours isnt' that bad. Put that mother together and give us a picture of a burnout!

[crm318]

I had the piston at TDC and I just used a rag or paper towel to wipe it off. I used it on everything. What ever you do, dont let it touch your skin. Ive learned that the hard way many times.

[Rippin-J]

Put that mother together and give us a picture of a burnout!

You've got a deal!

[gcburdic]

J,

pistons and heads looking good man...looking forward to the friday afternoon/ evening rebuild!!!

[highperf4x4]

Originally Posted by crm318

I cleand the tops of my pistons (and anything with carbon, gunk or oil) with gel type aircraft paint remover and a small paint brush. The carbon just falls off.

Just so you know, you need to put oil on anything that you hit with that stuff. It pulls all the lubrrication out of the metal and evaporates it. It will also oxidize your cylinder walls so your rings will be running dry on oxidized cylinder walls when you fire it up the first time until the crank throws enough oil up there to coat them again. You're taking a chance on busting a ring if you don't as they could try to bind up on the dry cylinders. I actually make it a habit to oil the cylinders walls from the topside before I put the heads on every time.

[Rippin-J]

good point.

after I cleaned 'em up with the carb cleaner I dumper oil on the rag I was using in each cylinder and wiped it all over.

does it just take a glazing of the walls/piston or should I douse it?

would wd-40 work as well on other components? gasket surfaces, etc.

ALSO, HiPo, when I removed the thermostat housing I found that there was no thermostat. What temp to you run your BB at?

[highperf4x4]

You should run a 165 degree in your engine.

You can use wd 40 to clean gasket surfaces just wipe them all down good before you put the gaskets on. You can use a thin coat of gasket to sealer to help hold the intake and water pump gaskets in place while you're installing but the head surfaces and gaskets need to be clean and dry and no gasket sealer on them.

As for the cylinder walls you can just dip your finger in the oil and smear it around.

[70rs/ss]

180 actually if you are in a hot climate, the water temps will stay above 160 and the thermostat will never close thus overheating the engine. Looks good, good luck and have fun, this is why we buy older vehicles. I shoot myself before I'd pull the head off of my 07 Cummins!!


BTW that overly rich condition can and will wash the cylinders down and eventually lead to glazed rings and blueish smoke from burnt oil, don't ask how I know that though, I won't tell!

[highperf4x4]

Originally Posted by 70rs/ss

180 actually if you are in a hot climate, the water temps will stay above 160 and the thermostat will never close thus overheating the engine.

I hate to break this to you but a thermostat is intended to bring an engine up to temperature as quickly as possible to burn fuel better. Once the thermostat opens it doesn't "completely" close again unless it's cool outside like cool nights or winter weather. Installing a hotter thermostat only makes your engine run hotter. A thermostat does not make your engine run cooler.

Originally Posted by 70rs/ss

BTW that overly rich condition can and will wash the cylinders down and eventually lead to glazed rings and blueish smoke from burnt oil, don't ask how I know that though, I won't tell!

Rings don't glaze. Cylinder walls do. They're supposed to. And any engine that has run more than 10,000 miles has glazed the cylinder walls. That's the purpose of a cylinder hone. If you're replacing piston rings without boring the block you have to hone the cylinders to knock this glaze off or the new rings will not seat properly. If your carb is flooding the engine with enough fuel to damage cylinder walls or rings then your exhaust pipes will be fogging the street with black smoke. Black smoke is too much fuel, grey smoke is oil burn and white smoke is water in the cylinders.

[highperf4x4]

Actually rippin, this thermostat discussion just tuned me in to your carbon problem. I'll bet it's not a rich carb, it's likely the lack of a thermostat. If an engine doesn't have a thermostat to bring it up to temperature quickly then it doesn't burn fuel efficiently and in the winter time it may never reach operating temperature. Thus your fuel would not burn properly and it would increase the carbon buiild up in the cylinders. So, install the thermostat and probably solve the carbon problem.

[mclairmo]

The thermostat was probably removed by the prior owner because it ran too hot, at least in the summertime, and he thought that would help cool the engine better. I have a 396 BBC and it likes to run hot. I agree to run a 180 thermostat but be on the look out for overheating issues afterward. Make sure you have the factory fan shroud on the radiator and that the fan is half way in and half way out of the shroud. Make sure that the water pump pulley is smaller than the crank pulley to ensure proper ratio. Good luck.

[highperf4x4]

I wouldn't run a 180 thermostat but you can run what you choose.

If you're concerned about cooling get a larger 7 blade flex fan.

You do have a 4-core radiator right?

[Rippin-J]

Originally Posted by 70rs/ss

180 actually if you are in a hot climate, the water temps will stay above 160 and the thermostat will never close thus overheating the engine. Looks good, good luck and have fun, this is why we buy older vehicles. I shoot myself before I'd pull the head off of my 07 Cummins!!


BTW that overly rich condition can and will wash the cylinders down and eventually lead to glazed rings and blueish smoke from burnt oil, don't ask how I know that though, I won't tell!

I also learned at the machine shop that having incorrect compression (because of a leaky-ass valve) will result in the motor running very rich. Since the valves weren't seating correctly and needed to be shimmed, I am going to assume that is has ALWAYS run rich (since whatever rebuild took place). And like HiPo mentioned, if there was never a thermostat then it most certainly never burned the fuel correctly. A combination of the two and I suppose you end up with carbon build-up!

At least that would explain why it like horse-poop in the cold (and the fact that my electric choke wasn't hooked up properly!).

what a mess... hopefully will be all (or mostly) smoothed out by the end of the weekend!

[highperf4x4]

I'm kinda anxious for you to get it done now!


Don't forget the pics of the burnout!!

[Rippin-J]

10-4 good buddy.

If anyone has some last minute installation advice, speak now because tomorrow it's all going back together!

[highperf4x4]

Here's the torque specs and a diagram for what sequence to tighten the head bolts in.

http://www.chevellebigblock.com/inta...uepattern.html

Be sure to torque each bolt in 15-20 lb increments. It should take you at least 4 passes on each head and the longer bolts require more torque.

Have you found info on how to adjust your lifters/rockers?

[Rippin-J]

Had to post this before checking in for the night... should be all together tomorrow.

[highperf4x4]

Awesome!

For some reason, you and I seem to hit the computer about the same time pretty regularly.......

[Rippin-J]

It's Alive!!!

She roared to life yesterday afternoon, quickly melted the cheap paint I had put on the headers (expected, just figured I'd have it looking nice for at least a day), and presented me with a couple new challenges.

Couldn't have done it without everyone's advice on the board and GCBs helping hand down here spinning wrenches with me! Thanks to everyone.

1 - relatively small leak in the radiator near the top created a fine misting of water/coolant all over my perfectly clean/partially new motor. not sure if I need to replace or if can be repaired...

2 - there was some hesitation EXACTLY like there used to be when fuel was applied. I was pissed. But that seemed to clear up after running for 10 min or so. I'm holding my breath on that one. run it a couple of times since and can't get it to repeat. hopefully all good.

3 - Despite our efforts to clean up some sloppy wiring, we didn't manage to find the gremlin causing the key-off drain. new engine harness should be in this week though and I'll go through the search process after getting that in.

4 - Need to test the alternator.... battery keeps dying and the lights flicker when the motor is running (bad alternator right?).

SO, I am hoping that any problems I am having now are a result of the electrical being in poor shape.

unfortunately it's not really street ready which is a bit disappointing. but on the other hand I'm going to get a learn a bunch more about electrical, etc.!

any comments on the above? OR anything I should keep in mind about the motor as I am 'breaking it in'?

thanks!