Starting my engine build

[GRX]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Here's a question, do people sell used camshafts? As long as they are in good shape? I definitely won't be using the Lunati cam, but it's a shame to see it just sit around

Only if the matching lifters have been kept in order. Even then, not much market for used cams.

When scraping those gaskets be sure to keep dirt & particles out of the cylinders away from the rings.

[davepl]

^^^ Agree

Stuff the cylinders with rags and try very hard to keep junk out of them. Don't use so sharp a scraper that you nick any of the head surface, but also don't go crazy with a pneumatic 3M disc either. Slow and careful. Laquer thinner helps.

When you're all done, of course, you'll break the cam in and do an oil change promptly after that to get stuff like gasket debris and breakin lube out of the oil.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by GRX

Only if the matching lifters have been kept in order. Even then, not much market for used cams.

When scraping those gaskets be sure to keep dirt & particles out of the cylinders away from the rings.

Perfect! I kept everything in order on two cardboard cutouts in case I was going to put it back in. Maybe somebody can put it to use.

[Mrturner1]

I'm putting together a list today of all the different kinds of sealant, silicone, and RTV that I'll need to put this motor back together nice and tight. Any suggestions are much appreciated. Please be specific with the brand and color so I get the right stuff. I used to build 4 stroke 450cc engines for drag racing in the sand dunes and I learned all the best tips for sealing up the engine and what types of gasket/RTV to use from the old timers who'd done it for years.

I'm hoping the heads will be done today, not sure how long a magnaflux and cleaning should take but I'm eager to get started. I have some things I can do while I wait, cam installation, timing gears and chain, timing cover and damper. The only thing I'm worried about is the cam break in lube sitting over the weekend if the heads aren't done today, maybe that stuff can sit a couple days?

[toolboxchev]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

I'm putting together a list today of all the different kinds of sealant, silicone, and RTV that I'll need to put this motor back together nice and tight. Any suggestions are much appreciated. Please be specific with the brand and color so I get the right stuff. I used to build 4 stroke 450cc engines for drag racing in the sand dunes and I learned all the best tips for sealing up the engine and what types of gasket/RTV to use from the old timers who'd done it for years.

I'm hoping the heads will be done today, not sure how long a magnaflux and cleaning should take but I'm eager to get started. I have some things I can do while I wait, cam installation, timing gears and chain, timing cover and damper. The only thing I'm worried about is the cam break in lube sitting over the weekend if the heads aren't done today, maybe that stuff can sit a couple days?

You will want RTV black for the intake manifolds. Use this instead of the rubber or composite for the front and back sides where the intake manifold mates to the block. I tried using those dam seals twice and both times they squeezed out. Its a little tricky dropping the manifold back on top with a bead on block but it is very doable. Mine is still sealed after 50 k miles.

I used a Thread Sealant made by permatex for the head bolts. It is white in color. You can pick up both at any local parts store. Napa always has this in stock.

You can leave the break in lube for a couple days. I used a Moly style that is tacky and almost a grease. In addition use the Comp Cams Break In additive.

http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-'Lubricants'-0.aspx

[Money_pit]

Don't remember if it was mentioned or not but always a good idea to run a thread tap/cleaner down all the holes for the head bolts. I like to do every bolt hole I see when I got them apart holes are usually full of old sealant and rust most times. Get a more accurate reading on the torque wrench also.

[Mrturner1]

Well after a couple days of rain and freezing weather, and waiting on the machine shop for my heads, it looks like I'll be able to get some work done today. The machine shop said the heads are great, no cracks or anything like that. I bought a set of comp cams valve springs to match the cam I bought, but the machine shop guy is saying that the springs that came with the heads look to be really nice so he's pressure testing them. That would be cool because the new springs were 100 bucks and that pays for gaskets and sealants. He said he'd get back to me by noon, so hopefully I'm picking the heads and rocker arms up today. I'm eager to get moving on this.

I am a little intimidated about getting the timing right on the first try because I need to break the new cam in, but I've been reading a lot. I didn't however mark or keep track of anything about the distributor when I pulled it (doh!!!) so that's going to pose a challenge I'm sure. I know that when the #1 piston is TDC, you put the cam gear with the mark straight up, and also the crank gear, straight up. I understand that part but I'm not 100% confident on the rest yet. It's gonna be fun though. Any suggestions or tips are greatly appreciated guys

Matt

[Coley]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

I am a little intimidated about getting the timing right on the first try because I need to break the new cam in, but I've been reading a lot. I didn't however mark or keep track of anything about the distributor when I pulled it (doh!!!) so that's going to pose a challenge I'm sure. I know that when the #1 piston is TDC, you put the cam gear with the mark straight up, and also the crank gear, straight up. I understand that part but I'm not 100% confident on the rest yet. It's gonna be fun though. Any suggestions or tips are greatly appreciated guys

Matt

Here you go....there are several very good 'how to' videos on youtube on how to do this and they are all well worth watching and this should bring back the confidence in getting the dizzy in the right spot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a2X9mSSlQY
...this is just one of them...they are several, many of which deal with the distributor installation on a 'new' engine or one that that has had the original timing disturbed.
All Good
Coley

[GASoline71]

Crank gear dot goes "up" at 12 o'clock position.

Cam gear dot goes "down" at 6,0clock position.

There will be 2 little dots on the gears to line up. This will put the engine on the #6 compression stroke. Then rotate the crank to bring the cam gear dot to the "top" 12 o'clock position and you will now be on the #1 compression stroke.

Clear as mud?

Also... for what it's worth... you couldn't pay me to install a used cam and lifters nowadays.

Gary

[davepl]

Here's what I do...

Remove #1 plug
Put finger OVER hole, not into it
Crank engine over with socket driver with other hand
Wait for compression to form and push your finger off
You should be approaching the mark on the balancer.
Continue to 8 degrees BTDC
Install rotor with tab pointing at what will be the #1 wire on the cap
Tighten down clamp enough that you could still adjust the timing.
Install cap.

When you fire it, get it up to 2000rpm and keep it there (at least 1500) to do your cam breakin. If it doesn't fire promptly, stop cranking and figure out why.

You won't be able actually set the timing (except total) because centrifugal will be kicked in, but just set it to something that runs well for the breakin and set the actual final timing later.

Make sure your choke and all of that is working and set before you fire it. You'll be at high enough rpm you can likely run it without a choke, but why fight it?

[Mrturner1]

Got some bad news from the machine shop. Heads need some machining so the new springs can be installed properly. Need new retainers, clips and shims, and labor. Add the 300 bucks I paid for the heads and 100 for valve springs and my grand total into these heads is 950.....that sounds like a nice set of aluminum heads to me. Maybe next time. I guess it can't all go smooth and perfect the first time.

[Mrturner1]

Thank you guys for the replies on timing

[Redline novdog]

Dude do you just have a big wallet or crazy for some wrenchin' .I get the machine shop check on the heads,but springs and a cam? The head change alone will give you seat of the pants pull!!!! Did you pull the cam? what is it, You are worried it is not big enough? I would like to see pics of the end of the cam(part# serial# etc...)
I hope you have the carb/intake/exhaust to go with your build!!!

[Mrturner1]

Here's the cam I pulled out. It's a Lunati 285 Bracketmaster 2. I have matching lifters for it as well.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Redline novdog

Dude do you just have a big wallet or crazy for some wrenchin' .I get the machine shop check on the heads,but springs and a cam? The head change alone will give you seat of the pants pull!!!! Did you pull the cam? what is it, You are worried it is not big enough? I would like to see pics of the end of the cam(part# serial# etc...)
I hope you have the carb/intake/exhaust to go with your build!!!

I guess a bit of both. Retired from the Army when I was 22 from injuries in Iraq so the money is good. And since I gotta keep my screws from comin loose I started wrenchin! All the necessary parts are in order to compliment the head and cam change except the tranny and rear end I suppose, those are next on my list of "better upgrade or it'll break" list, that sure got long in a hurry

[Mrturner1]

This is my barn floor so far

[toolboxchev]

That is looking awesome. You will be plenty of happy when your back together again.

Make sure your head shop puts in Viton seals. Those things really help keep compression and oil consumption to a minimum!

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by toolboxchev

That is looking awesome. You will be plenty of happy when your back together again.

Make sure your head shop puts in Viton seals. Those things really help keep compression and oil consumption to a minimum!

Thanks man! And I'm glad you mentioned it, I doubt they have started the seals yet.

[Money_pit]

Just to add before you fire that thing take a small bottle of gas and fill that carb up or use an electric pump. Also a really good idea to get an oil pump primer before you fire it and run it for a minute or two after you get oil pressure just to get it flowing.

[GRX]

The importance of using a good Moly Paste for proper cam & lifter break in can not be over stated.

Spread it on the cam lobes (not bearing surfaces) before sliding the lump stick in. Or you can apply the paste to the lobes through the lifter holes with a small brush after install while spinning cam to ensure even distribution.

[Redline novdog]

A good high phosphate break in oil would be important to the cam/lifter break in, for the first start/run.
Sounds like you have it under control,Good luck and sounds like you're already having fun!!

[hamjet]

Sounds like they're putting heavy springs in it. (high spring pressure) if they have to machine the heads to make em fit. are the duel springs? Whats the pressure specs on the springs. heavy spring pressure can be bad for cam break-in, alot of guys put in lighter springs or remove the inner spring for less pressure till break-in is complete, then replace the heavier ones. (a lotta extra work).. Not to add fuel to the fire, (something more to worry about), see if you can get the spring specs and post them..

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Redline novdog

A good high phosphate break in oil would be important to the cam/lifter break in, for the first start/run.
Sounds like you have it under control,Good luck and sounds like you're already having fun!!

LOTS of fun this has been such a good time and I've already learned so much that even little bumps in the road like the heads getting expensive don't really seem all that bad. I look at it this way, before I busted out the wrenches and went for it, I had started another thread about the engine build, and the labor for JUST the cam and head install with a tune was 2800 bucks. And that didn't include head work, gaskets, springs, nothing. And when it's done I'll be drivin a truck that I built instead of just farming out labor and then driving something I know nothing about.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by hamjet

Sounds like they're putting heavy springs in it. (high spring pressure) if they have to machine the heads to make em fit. are the duel springs? Whats the pressure specs on the springs. heavy spring pressure can be bad for cam break-in, alot of guys put in lighter springs or remove the inner spring for less pressure till break-in is complete, then replace the heavier ones. (a lotta extra work).. Not to add fuel to the fire, (something more to worry about), see if you can get the spring specs and post them..

Well, I hope it won't hurt anything because I'm gonna have to break it in with the springs that are going on. I can't swap them out or I might try it, and it's too much money to have it done. The springs are pretty heavy, made for a Comp 280H. I'll post the spring pressure when I get home and look

[Money_pit]

The comp cams zdp additive is what you'll need to add to the oil during break in. Depending which oil you use. They also suggest adding that additive every oil change to put back in the oil what modern cars don't need anymore. This chart may also help to determine a converter I just did a little searching for it