Project: 1966 Stepside LWB

[b2948kevin]

Hey guys, thanks for the comments. I am still around, but I've just slowed down on working on this project as I've taken a new position at the same company that I've been working for. This means that I am deep into ramping up on the new role and just don't have the time that I used to. Also, this time of year, sunrise is about 8:00am sunset is about 4:30pm. That means that I don't even see the light of day! This will get better soon, and in June, sunrise will be at 5:10am and sunset will be 9:10pm. Weather does have something to do with it, but lack of time and lack of light are the real killers right now.

Cap, I think you're right. I looked closer when I got everything off, and the pads I had on there were riveted, but they weren't worn down to that point yet, which means they aren't the same pads that did the damage. Basically, you're right .

The truck is driveable and I drive it around the neighborhood occasionally, but I still don't have headlights or brake lights that work, so I don't want to do a lot of driving on it yet. I am sort of thinking about just putting new brake pads on the front and scrapping the idea of putting on drop spindles and disc brakes for a while. One way or another, I need to get the headlights and brake lights fixed so I can begin driving it to work. This will really help me to get motivated to get it in tip top shape.

[McMurphy]

Well congrats on the new position, hopefully it came with more $$ as well !!

Yours is one of the threads I am going to use as a reference when I do these patch pans, and figured I would bump the thread to make it easier to find again!

Glad to see you are still with us, have a great weekend !

[b2948kevin]

Yeah, no problem. Let me know if you have questions about anything and I could give you any spedific details required.

Just remember that this is going to be difficult. Pace yourself and don't get burned out. It's great to have it done!

[McMurphy]

Originally Posted by b2948kevin

Yeah, no problem. Let me know if you have questions about anything and I could give you any spedific details required.

Just remember that this is going to be difficult. Pace yourself and don't get burned out. It's great to have it done!

Heheh I think I have all the parts I need, and 2 years until it HAS to be done; so no worries there!

[b2948kevin]

I got a little bit of time on Saturday after hiking in the morning with the family, so I got me some front brake shoes and installed them. I am starting to realize that I will be in front drum brakes for a while still, so I needed to get some new shoes on there. I was holding off in anticipation that I would upgrade to discs in the front soon, but I don't think I want to take that on just yet. Maybe in another year.

You can see how thin the shoe on the right was getting.

[b2948kevin]

I got home at about 4:30 today when it was just getting dark so I threw some work clothes on real quick and headed out with a headlamp to get some stuff done.

I ordered up some the high beam floor switch and a new headlights switch module a couple weeks ago and have been needing to get them in. I was hoping that they would take care of my headlight and brake light woes.

The headlight switch module came out pretty easy. I had to research to find out how to get the pull knob to release. For those doing this, there's a little push button on the bottom of the module. push it and pull the knob out and it should release. It took me a bit, but it finally released and I got the new one swapped in there. I got the high beams floor switch replaced pretty easily, though I had to replace and resolder the connectors on my wires as they were pretty corroded.

So, I got everything hooked up and I test it out, and the brake lights are still not working, so I will have to continue to troubleshoot that. The headlights are coming on now though, but only in high beam mode, not the regular beams. I wonder if there's a wire that's switched around on the high beam selector. I am going through the wiring diagram now.

Here is the old/new switch.

[Captainfab]

One place to look for your tail light issue, is inside the steering column at the turn signal switch, and the wires from the connector to the switch.

On the headlights, check the connector where the headlight wiring passes thru the radiator support.

[Jeff La]

Just finished reading the thread. Keep up the good work. I'm a novice also on the body work, so when I start mine it'll be a new adventure.

[McMurphy]

Just to confirm, the tail light bulbs are good? and they are free of corrosion so they can ground properly? Without a good ground they wont work either.

I think CaptFab has the best idea on your headlights.
If all else fails start tracking the electrical current from origination (switch or brake light toggle switch) to the lights themselves. If you dont have a ohmmeter/dwellmeter, you can easily rig a turn signal bulb to light up as an indicator that you are getting juice to whatever point you are checking.

Just an idea.
I know I have to keep my light sockets clean where they connect to the tail light housing on my Tempest, otherwise they corrode and lose the ground.

Good luck and good to see you posting again!!

[b2948kevin]

Sorry for the long duration between posts.

Thanks Captain and McMurphy. To confirm, the rear blinkers both work and there's only one bulb in that housing, so I know that they work. They could stand to be cleaned up, but I know that they currently should function.

I fixed my headlight issue. It was just bad wiring and I got it sorted. The brake lights still are not working and I may have to get a new harness for the rear because it's just so messy right now.

[b2948kevin]

Ok, here's the story: I got a little demotivated after my front brake overhaul because I took it out for a spin and it's still not stopping real well. I can get it stopped, but it's kind of white knuckle every time and I am not quite sure what to suspect. I don't trust that I can adequately stop during an emergency situation. This is all after 4 new pads, 2 new rotors and a bunch of time.

Anyway, after some troubleshooting and some test driving, I started to believe that I would be needing to upgrade to disc front brakes because these drums would never work adequately. Anyone agree/disagree? This is going to set me back probably a grand (spindles, calipers, booster, MC, etc.) which I'm not in the mood for right now.

I started to think about option #2. What if I was just to replace the hydraulic cylinders, go over all the brake components again and make sure everything is tip top (replacing anything that needs it), split the brake lines, put a dual MC and a booster on there. This would still cost some $, but I think less. Would this get me good stopping power, or are these drums just not going to work well ever?

Couple questions: Does anyone see anything out of the ordinary with my brake pictures? Any parts missing? Anything not quite right in there? Also, how do the emergency brakes connect? Do they engage all 4 brakes?

[Captainfab]

Are there not any '73-'87 trucks in the wrecking yards over there? What about craigslist? You can convert to front disc brakes for a lot less than $1K using OEM parts. Yes your option #2 would be a little improvement, with adding power to the master cylinder. That is what I have on my '66 Suburban. It is definitely better than manual brakes, but still not like power discs.

[McMurphy]

The whole front cross member, with upper and lower A-arms, with brakes and spindles should only run you $100 at a bone yard. $150 max and that is if they chop the frame for you.
The will be used, but the whole cross member will bolt on. Proabably the easiest and cheapest way to go.

Your current problem could take a lot to chase down. Anything from clogged, or pinched brake line, bad master cylindar (doubtful tho), or stuck/missing brake parts at one or more wheels.

Blackdawg just posted some awesome and clear pics of his drum brakes this week... take a look at:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=467164&page=2

See if that helps you any. He happened to mention that his brakes had been cannibalized for the parking brake levers inside the hub. (which is why I mentioned missing parts)

Good luck, hope that helps you man!

[b2948kevin]

Thanks Capt and McMurphy, you guys kicked me into hyper-research mode. I've read tons of threads to learn about how to do this and make sure I have my ducks in a row.

I am being quoted 400-800 right now for a whole cross member with suspension and brakes. I am heading down to pick and pull and some part shops right now to talk to them about this.

I also took some time to list out my what is in my head right now in real Project Manager fashion. I'd be especially interested to hear if I'm missing the mark on any of this.

[b2948kevin]

Scope:
Suspension and braking upgrade for my 66 Chevy C10

Assumptions:
Brakes are

• currently stock drums with manual single piston MC
• Existing suspension is all original and ball joints and bushings likely need replacement
• Any crossmember and suspension purchase will not need additional parts
• Upgrade will be done in my driveway in the PNW where it rains a lot
• I have restrictions regarding this project becoming an eyesore in my driveway, and I will need to either be quick, or have the ability to patch things up so that it doesn’t look too bad each night
• There are no dependencies around need to be able to drive this within a short

timeframe. This is not my daily driver.

Requirements:
All wheels need to be able to be interchanged
Brakes need to function way better than the POS drums
Master Cylinder needs to be assisted
Suspension must have the ability to be stabilized to increase roll stiffness (even if done later)

Functional Spec/VROM:
The purpose of this section is to show options to meet the requirements within the scope and assumptions above. Note that this is still a work in progress and may need tweaking. In areas of uncertainty, I’ve estimated high. I also recognize that there may be other ways to achieve the requirements that I’ve not shown below. I’ve picked the most likely avenues given my current knowledge on the subject, which is likely to change.

Summary:
Option 1 – Parts Swap, Stay 6 lug (Total: 836 - 1055)
Option 2 – Parts Swap, Move to 5 lug (Total: 1006 - 1255)
Option 3 – Full Crossmember and Suspension Swap, Stay 6 lug (Total: 971 - 1575)
Option 4 – Full Crossmember and Suspension Swap, Move to 5 lug (Total: 1091 - 1695)

Details:
Option 1 – Parts Swap, Stay 6 lug (Total: 836 - 1055)
•Spindles
o CPP brand 2” Drop Spindles from SummitRacing.com – 250
•Captain's Booster Adapter Plate
o From the Capt himself – 65
•Master Cylinder and Booster ('88-'98)
o Pick and Pull – 26
o Parts picker – 85
•Proportioning Valve
o Pick and Pull – 13
o Parts picker – 45
•Calipers (‘73-87 for 1.25"heavy duty version)
o Pick and Pull – 22
o Parts picker – 50
•Rotors/Hubs
o Aftermarket 6 lug version from performanceonline.com - 180
•Wheels (6 lug) that support the larger diameter of the disc brake components
o Craigslist, likely – 100-200
•New Ball Joints – 80
•Misc - 100

Option 2 – Parts Swap, Move to 5 lug (Total: 1006 - 1255)
•Spindles
o CPP brand 2” Drop Spindles from SummitRacing.com – 250
•Captain's Booster Adapter Plate
o From the Capt himself – 65
•Master Cylinder and Booster ('88-'98)
o Pick and Pull – 26
o Parts picker – 85
•Proportioning Valve
o Pick and Pull – 13
o Parts picker – 45
•Calipers (‘73-87 for 1.25"heavy duty version)
o Pick and Pull – 22
o Parts picker – 50
•Rotors/Hubs
o Pick and Pull – 50
o Parts picker – 80
•Wheels (5 lug)
o Craigslist, likely – 100-200
•Rear end (5 lug)
o Craigslist, likely – 300
•New Ball Joints – 80
•Misc – 100

Option 3 – Full Crossmember and Suspension Swap, Stay 6 lug (Total: 971 - 1575)
•Full Crossmember and suspension
o Still getting quotes, but so far, 400-800
•Captain's Booster Adapter Plate
o From the Capt himself – 65
•Master Cylinder and Booster ('88-'98)
o Pick and Pull – 26
o Parts picker – 85
•Proportioning Valve
o May be included in the crossmember purchase - 0
o Pick and Pull – 13
o Parts picker – 45
•Rotors/Hubs
o Aftermarket 6 lug version from performanceonline.com - 180
•Wheels (6 lug) that support the larger diameter of the disc brake components
o Craigslist, likely – 100-200
•Misc – 200

Option 4 – Full Crossmember and Suspension Swap, Move to 5 lug (Total: 1091 - 1695)
•Full Crossmember and suspension
o Still getting quotes, but so far, 400-800
•Captain's Booster Adapter Plate
o From the Capt himself – 65
•Master Cylinder and Booster ('88-'98)
o Pick and Pull – 26
o Parts picker – 85
•Proportioning Valve
o May be included in the crossmember purchase - 0
o Pick and Pull – 13
o Parts picker – 45
•Wheels (5 lug)
o Craigslist, likely – 100-200
•Rear end (5 lug)
o Craigslist, likely – 300
•Misc - 200

[Captainfab]

To add to your options break down. To convert your rear differential to 5 lug, you can simply add the aftermarket conversion axles to your existing differential, plus new drums for aprox the same $300.00 you have listed. This way you will have brand new axles and drums, and with likely less effort than sourcing a different differential.

So you're a Project Manager? In construction?

[markeb01]

Originally Posted by b2948kevin

Anyway, after some troubleshooting and some test driving, I started to believe that I would be needing to upgrade to disc front brakes because these drums would never work adequately. Anyone agree/disagree?

Couple questions: Does anyone see anything out of the ordinary with my brake pictures? Any parts missing? Anything not quite right in there? Also, how do the emergency brakes connect? Do they engage all 4 brakes?

I have front disc brakes on my 1960 and prefer them over drums, because they perform better and are easier to work on. But I drove cars and trucks with drum brakes for decades and they can be set up to work just fine. They can however be more tedious to dial in if there are problems. I would not be inclined to make a change to disc brakes just because the drum brakes are not working correctly, especially if this is a daily driver.

Unless you’re looking for a performance upgrade or having 5 lug wheels is a high priority, I’d suggest the cheapest and easiest solution is to find out what is wrong and correct the problem(s) with the drum brakes.

There are only so many things that can be wrong with a drum brake system, and if you’re receiving white knuckle performance something basic isn’t working properly. Here’s a list of things I can think of off the top of my head, in no particular priority sequence:

. Shoes out of adjustment (notch count needs to be matched side for side).
. Contaminated shoes or drums (grease or oil on the linings).
. Drums out of round, or hard (blue) spots on the drums from overheating.
. Braking surfaces in the drums are not smooth or matched side for side.
. Different sized drums (well within spec on one side and near or over the limit on the other side)
. Mixed shoes (riveted/bonded not matched), or shoes installed incorrectly (primary/secondary shoe installed backwards, especially on one side only)
. New shoes installed in old drums that weren’t turned first, resulting in shoes that are now worn unevenly.
. Bad master or wheel cylinders (leaking, frozen, or rusted)
. Crimped hard line anywhere in the system.
. Old flex hoses.
. Contamination in the hard lines or wheel cylinders. This can be caused by rust in the system or by deteriorated rubber from old flex hoses which tend to deteriorate from the inside out.
. Wheel bearings out of adjustment.

Unless the truck is a freeway flyer in modern congested traffic, or hauling heavy loads over mountainous roads on a daily basis, replacing everything in the drum brakes should provide completely adequate braking. I can’t really diagnose what may be wrong with your brakes from a photograph, but a thorough check and replacement of all wear items may be your simplest solution.

[b2948kevin]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

So you're a Project Manager? In construction?

No, IT Project Manager. I work for a big software company based in Redmond, Wa. I was originally a Network Engineer but turned to Project/Program Management.

So, it looks like I'll be needing to get some of your custom mounting brackets, Capt

[b2948kevin]

Originally Posted by markeb01

Unless you’re looking for a performance upgrade or having 5 lug wheels is a high priority, I’d suggest the cheapest and easiest solution is to find out what is wrong and correct the problem(s) with the drum brakes.

Hey Mark, thanks for stopping in to check on this project. I put a lot of thought into what you said here, but I think I am still going to press on with doing the disc conversion. You're likely right about eventually getting the brakes to work reasonably well as-is, but I think that I am always going to be wanting the disc brakes anyway, so I have decided to put this effort into the disc conversion instead of troubleshooting the drums.

I am already feeling guilty for having spent $ on new front drum pads and bearings, so I want to cut my losses and go for a permanent fix. Anyone know if there is a difference in bearings between the stock bearings for the drum brake hubs and the later style bearings?

Also, considering the prices I am still being quoted for front clips around here (best price is $300 from Pick and Pull if I cut it off with battery powered tools only and haul it out with a wheel barrow), I am thinking that option 1 will be the best way to go. Probably the quickest also.

[b2948kevin]

I have been a little quiet here lately but only because I am saving and buying parts. I have nearly everything I need for the brake conversion less the 6 lug disc/hubs, conversion rubber brake lines and the steel brake lines. Soon I will jump into the conversion of the whole thing. I will likely be doing power steering around the same time.

[McMurphy]

Always good to see this thread bumped up.
I can say your build was an early motivator for me to do a lot of what I have done so far. My thinking ~ if a computer guy can do this in his drive way, then I should be able to do it too ~ no offense, but the driveway was the selling angle to me!

I am going to go with the front cross member for front disc, leave the rears as drums, and get a 6 lug rotor for the front spindles so I dont have to change my wheels. What is on there now is going to work just fine for me, I am just going to spruce them up with some paint.

Good luck!
Hope you get to spend some wrench time soon, I am also in the parts collecting phase right now for my motor!

[b2948kevin]

Thanks McMurphy! Yeah, a real garage that I could actually pull the truck into and work on would make a pretty decent difference. Remember that you will need a larger inside diameter on the wheels to clear the disc calipers. Not sure if you have this covered already.

I spent another lump sum on parts today. I bought conversion 6 lug rotors, the conversion rubber brake lines and some rebuild parts for the rear drums. The only things I'll need before getting started now are bearings, ball joints, steel brake lines, some fittings, and I think that's about it. Oh yeah, tires and wheels :/

[joesscamaro]

Sorry to bring up an old topic...but I was wondering where you got your new sheet metal for your cab? Particularly the cab corner...it looked like it fit pretty well. What company did you get it from? Thanks!

[b2948kevin]

I used LMC Truck for all of the sheet metal that I bought.

Don't hesitate to ask.

[b2948kevin]

I got nearly all of my parts together finally and I am working to put the new CPP drop spindles in. I have new ball joints but I can't get the old ones out. I have the top factory rivets ground off on the top, but I can't get them out. Any tricks?