Power Steering Gripe - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

**'68OrangeSunshine** · 09-13-2005, 06:03 AM

On my '71 GMC Jimmy [K/5] 4WD w/V8 350, I'm having a problem with my P/S unit. The truck was grinding when running and groaning when I pulled it thru turns. A friend from work suggested I replace the HP pwr stng hose. So I R&R'ed the P/S HP hose and the LP side hose as well, then flushed 2 Quarts of Power Steering Fluid out the disconnected LP hose until the PSF came out clear. There was some visible FOD [foreign object debris = gak] in the bottom of the first couple pints. Also the dipstick had some "fizz" on it after I hooked up the LP side to the P/S pump return inlet. In the driveway, the system would not assist power steer -- I had to Armstrong it -- (not easy since the dang P.O. installed a 10" Grant wheel

) On the test run, there was still some grinding noise from the engine bay [P/S pump I think?] but it would power steer. System would whirr when running and growl when turning. At higher RPMs (>30 MPH) function was easier, at lower speeds resistance increased.
Is my next step replacing the P/S pump assembly? I'm getting quotes from the chain stores like: $52 to $93 [core not incl] for a rebuilt P/S Pump Assy. Prices differ on whether I want one w/ or w/o reservoir. What's a reservoir, anyway? Can I use my old one? Or is it a separate tank for HD set ups? Or built onto the teardrop-shaped pump?
And if I also need a P/S gearbox -- Good news is I have another Saginaw P/S gear I pulled off my dormant Suburban. (Low miles). Old HP hose matched HP input on this gearbox. Do I need to worry about steering geometry putting this other gearbox on the close-coupled Jimmy chassis? Is there some way to decode the Saginaw numbers? Prices on chainstore rebuilt gearboxes are running $136 to $171 bucks, not counting core charges...
Thanks in advance,
Brian

Americanrider · 09-13-2005, 11:46 AM

It sounds like it's a pump taking a dump...lol

FOD might be the cause or just old age. If it was me I'd replace the reservoir (the tank that holds the fuild) and pump. Small block PS setups are cheap to find here on the board or in local yards. Which ever you have Long or short nosed, Just make sure you replace it with the same. The last one I got at a swap meet was $10, rump, res & lines. Don't get caught up in the years, most any GM pump from the 60's to late 70's will work.

If your swapping gearboxes between your Burb and truck they should be the same also as long as your burb is a 4x4. Leave the lower arm attached to the gearbox when doing the swap and save yourself a lot of

trouble. Or, check wrecking yards for a 4x4 gearbox. I put a 76 4x4 and a 72 4x4 PS Gearbox side by side last week, they are identical.

flip66 · 09-13-2005, 11:59 AM

It's the pump, I had the same problem I swaped it with a used pump I had and it works fine now.

**Classic Heartbeat** · 09-13-2005, 12:32 PM

When you changed the lines and fluid you introduced air into the system. That is indicated by the pump whining and the foam on the dipstick. Let the foam settle out and add more fluid. I would lift the front wheels off the ground and after adding fluid, turn the wheel all they back and forth a couple of times without the engine running. Add more fluid as necessary and repeat this process 3 or 4 times. Then you can start the engine, and turn the wheel back and forth 1 time and shut the motor off and add fluid as necessary. Do that a couple of times and you should be good to go.. If not, then it is time to replace the pump. WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com

tomatocity · 09-13-2005, 02:27 PM

[QUOTE=WES]When you changed the lines and fluid you introduced air into the system. That is indicated by the pump whining and the foam on the dipstick. Let the foam settle out and add more fluid. I would lift the front wheels off the ground and after adding fluid, turn the wheel all they back and forth a couple of times without the engine running. Add more fluid as necessary and repeat this process 3 or 4 times. Then you can start the engine, and turn the wheel back and forth 1 time and shut the motor off and add fluid as necessary. Do that a couple of times and you should be good to go.. If not, then it is time to replace the pump. WES[QUOTE]

Wes you should add your explanation to teh FAQ's. Well done.

**Classic Heartbeat** · 09-13-2005, 04:14 PM

Thanks tomatocity. I didn't think that my explination was that good...lol WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com

**'68OrangeSunshine** · 09-13-2005, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick980

well I thought I would be smart guy and replace seals in a leaky steering box, now the dam thing turns from center only one and change to the right and 2 full turns to the left. I dont know what I did. I feel for ya. God dam steering is ridiculous cuz this was a nice tight ratio box to begin with...was only 2 3/4 stop to stop now it is crap to crap.
Sorry I dont know your info but I had the need to vent. I feel much better.

That's what happened to me when I tried to put '69-later P/S on a manual '67 K/10 Suburban. A real Goat F%^&. I posted the sad story on the 4X4 forum a while back. I will stay as close to normal on this rig, it's my work truck.
WES-- Thanks. I'll give that a try.

tomatocity · 09-13-2005, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WES

Thanks tomatocity. I didn't think that my explination was that good...lol WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com

Simple and direct. Git'r dun!
I saved it since I will be replacing the steering box on my 70 and possible PS pump on my 93 S10. Your explanation might have saved the S10 PS pump. I did not do the 'engine not running' portion when I replaced the steering box and the pump whines.

**Classic Heartbeat** · 09-13-2005, 07:44 PM

Yes, whiney pump generaly means that you have air in your lines. Leaky power steering systems experience that a lot..

Most people will replace the lines, pump, or steering gear, fill the system to the fill line on the pump dipstick and start the engine..... Instant foam, because the fluid in the resivour gets pumped into the steering gear causing the pump to be low again. That in turn causes the pump to mix air into the remaining fluid.

.... The wine is the foam passing through the pump... This is why you lift the wheels off the ground and turn them both ways a few times while adding the fluid necessary (with the engine off). That doesn't cause the pump to spin turning air and fluid into foam.... The suction created while turning your wheels back and forth is enough to pull the necassary fluid into the steering gear. WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com

**'68OrangeSunshine** · 09-14-2005, 06:36 AM

Hey Wes, that wheels up trick worked like a charm! I lifted the front end and racked the wheel over back and forth several times, added fluid and started it up. No whine. I ran the Jimmy to the carwash and shot some degreaser around the engine bay and especially the P/S components. It ran good. That's the good news. The bad news is, I may have a leak. I thought it was coming from the pump assy, but that was wishful thinking. Later tonight I checked underneath. The case of the pump was dry but the rear of the P/S gearbox was wet with PSF. That may be the root cause of this whole deal.
I may feed it some P/S stop leak, since I have a 12 oz bottle on the shelf, to shore things up until I can get the tools together to R & R the Saginaw box.
Since Prestone PSF is selling for $3.79/Qt and Pyroil PSF costs $2.69/Qt, I'm wondering if there is any difference in quality. The Prestone has a clear (almost bluish) color and the Pyroil [ made by Valvoline] has a yellow tinge to it. Pyroil looks and smells like this Sternol stuff we used to use on an aircraft I worked on many years ago. The question is can you mix them? I've heard not to, and that Prestone was the best, but at a buck-ten more, I don't think it's that much better.

**Classic Heartbeat** · 09-14-2005, 02:38 PM

I am glad that it worked for you... Hopefully it saves you a few bucks.
The leak could be for a couple of reasons. It is a common practice for some people to use transmission fluid in their power steering systems. The though is that they are both hydrolic fluids so why not? The problem is in the additives. The additives in transmission fluid eats seals in the power steering gears. The other of coarse is old age. It is not a good idea to mix brands, though I have in power steering systems befor. Lets face it, most people do not know what brand the previouse owner used so when adding fluid, we just add our favorites. It is less important in power steering than in the engines. I would use the cheaper brand, especially because your system leaks. If it didn't leak then I might go for a better brand name for the same reasons that you would a particular oil. Different brands have different properties.. Example: Arco gas... Cheap, but at least untill lately no cleaning additives. So fuil injected cars that use Arco gas need to run injector cleaner through there tanks every so often. Chevron gas has techrcycoline (spell) that Arco doesn't. You use Chevron gasoline, you do not have dirty injector problems. Now I didn't want this to a thread advertising for Chevron, but that is the point that I wanted to make. So to sum it up.... Leaky=cheapy fluid. Otherwise I would consider a better fluid. WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com

**'68OrangeSunshine** · 09-15-2005, 04:29 AM

I took the '68 stepside today and let the Jimmy rest. It's got a slow leak, but I had to look really hard for any evidence.
Pyroil is made by Valvoline, a quality lubricant maker, I think the price difference with Prestone is mostly marketing rather than manufacturing/quality costs. JMHO
BTW-- in my junk shed I found a very early P/S pump. It has a metal cap with an aluminum dipstick. Stamped on top it states: USE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID TYPE A. No memory of where I got it. It was never on any of my trucks.

09-13-2005, 06:03 AM	#1
'68OrangeSunshine Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Posts: 7,054	Power Steering Gripe On my '71 GMC Jimmy [K/5] 4WD w/V8 350, I'm having a problem with my P/S unit. The truck was grinding when running and groaning when I pulled it thru turns. A friend from work suggested I replace the HP pwr stng hose. So I R&R'ed the P/S HP hose and the LP side hose as well, then flushed 2 Quarts of Power Steering Fluid out the disconnected LP hose until the PSF came out clear. There was some visible FOD [foreign object debris = gak] in the bottom of the first couple pints. Also the dipstick had some "fizz" on it after I hooked up the LP side to the P/S pump return inlet. In the driveway, the system would not assist power steer -- I had to Armstrong it -- (not easy since the dang P.O. installed a 10" Grant wheel ) On the test run, there was still some grinding noise from the engine bay [P/S pump I think?] but it would power steer. System would whirr when running and growl when turning. At higher RPMs (>30 MPH) function was easier, at lower speeds resistance increased. Is my next step replacing the P/S pump assembly? I'm getting quotes from the chain stores like: $52 to $93 [core not incl] for a rebuilt P/S Pump Assy. Prices differ on whether I want one w/ or w/o reservoir. What's a reservoir, anyway? Can I use my old one? Or is it a separate tank for HD set ups? Or built onto the teardrop-shaped pump? And if I also need a P/S gearbox -- Good news is I have another Saginaw P/S gear I pulled off my dormant Suburban. (Low miles). Old HP hose matched HP input on this gearbox. Do I need to worry about steering geometry putting this other gearbox on the close-coupled Jimmy chassis? Is there some way to decode the Saginaw numbers? Prices on chainstore rebuilt gearboxes are running $136 to $171 bucks, not counting core charges... Thanks in advance, Brian __________________ Every 25 years I like to rebuild that 292, whether it needs it or not.

09-13-2005, 11:59 AM	#3
flip66 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Garland TX Dallas area Posts: 658	It's the pump, I had the same problem I swaped it with a used pump I had and it works fine now. __________________ 1998 Pontiac Grad Prix GTP 1969 C10 396 TH400 3.08 posi Last edited by flip66; 09-13-2005 at 12:00 PM.

09-13-2005, 12:32 PM	#4
Classic Heartbeat Project Junkie! Fishing Poor!! Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Olympia,Wa. 98512 Posts: 10,770	When you changed the lines and fluid you introduced air into the system. That is indicated by the pump whining and the foam on the dipstick. Let the foam settle out and add more fluid. I would lift the front wheels off the ground and after adding fluid, turn the wheel all they back and forth a couple of times without the engine running. Add more fluid as necessary and repeat this process 3 or 4 times. Then you can start the engine, and turn the wheel back and forth 1 time and shut the motor off and add fluid as necessary. Do that a couple of times and you should be good to go.. If not, then it is time to replace the pump. WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com __________________ On-line catolog Classic Heartbeat Pickup Parts WEHEPP@comcast.net Call us Toll Free (888) 338-2502 Like Us on Facebook No appointment necessary. 72 BB Chevy Custom Deluxe / Custom Camper 67 I-6 (Soon to be 5.7 LS1) Panel 68 BB Chevy Short Bed 72 6.0 LQ9 Short Bed Chevy 4X4 Olympia's fastest growing truck parts supplier. Olympia's home for Wayward Chevys

09-13-2005, 02:27 PM	#5
tomatocity Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 1,255	[QUOTE=WES]When you changed the lines and fluid you introduced air into the system. That is indicated by the pump whining and the foam on the dipstick. Let the foam settle out and add more fluid. I would lift the front wheels off the ground and after adding fluid, turn the wheel all they back and forth a couple of times without the engine running. Add more fluid as necessary and repeat this process 3 or 4 times. Then you can start the engine, and turn the wheel back and forth 1 time and shut the motor off and add fluid as necessary. Do that a couple of times and you should be good to go.. If not, then it is time to replace the pump. WES[QUOTE] Wes you should add your explanation to teh FAQ's. Well done. __________________ Got bored, sold everthing. Got bored, looking for a 1960-66 C-10. Want to build my last truck.

09-13-2005, 04:14 PM	#6
Classic Heartbeat Project Junkie! Fishing Poor!! Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Olympia,Wa. 98512 Posts: 10,770	Thanks tomatocity. I didn't think that my explination was that good...lol WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com __________________ On-line catolog Classic Heartbeat Pickup Parts WEHEPP@comcast.net Call us Toll Free (888) 338-2502 Like Us on Facebook No appointment necessary. 72 BB Chevy Custom Deluxe / Custom Camper 67 I-6 (Soon to be 5.7 LS1) Panel 68 BB Chevy Short Bed 72 6.0 LQ9 Short Bed Chevy 4X4 Olympia's fastest growing truck parts supplier. Olympia's home for Wayward Chevys

09-13-2005, 11:46 AM	#2
Americanrider Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NW, WA. Posts: 1,421	It sounds like it's a pump taking a dump...lol FOD might be the cause or just old age. If it was me I'd replace the reservoir (the tank that holds the fuild) and pump. Small block PS setups are cheap to find here on the board or in local yards. Which ever you have Long or short nosed, Just make sure you replace it with the same. The last one I got at a swap meet was $10, rump, res & lines. Don't get caught up in the years, most any GM pump from the 60's to late 70's will work. If your swapping gearboxes between your Burb and truck they should be the same also as long as your burb is a 4x4. Leave the lower arm attached to the gearbox when doing the swap and save yourself a lot of trouble. Or, check wrecking yards for a 4x4 gearbox. I put a 76 4x4 and a 72 4x4 PS Gearbox side by side last week, they are identical.

09-13-2005, 07:44 PM	#9
Classic Heartbeat Project Junkie! Fishing Poor!! Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Olympia,Wa. 98512 Posts: 10,770	Yes, whiney pump generaly means that you have air in your lines. Leaky power steering systems experience that a lot.. Most people will replace the lines, pump, or steering gear, fill the system to the fill line on the pump dipstick and start the engine..... Instant foam, because the fluid in the resivour gets pumped into the steering gear causing the pump to be low again. That in turn causes the pump to mix air into the remaining fluid. .... The wine is the foam passing through the pump... This is why you lift the wheels off the ground and turn them both ways a few times while adding the fluid necessary (with the engine off). That doesn't cause the pump to spin turning air and fluid into foam.... The suction created while turning your wheels back and forth is enough to pull the necassary fluid into the steering gear. WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com __________________ On-line catolog Classic Heartbeat Pickup Parts WEHEPP@comcast.net Call us Toll Free (888) 338-2502 Like Us on Facebook No appointment necessary. 72 BB Chevy Custom Deluxe / Custom Camper 67 I-6 (Soon to be 5.7 LS1) Panel 68 BB Chevy Short Bed 72 6.0 LQ9 Short Bed Chevy 4X4 Olympia's fastest growing truck parts supplier. Olympia's home for Wayward Chevys

09-14-2005, 06:36 AM	#10
'68OrangeSunshine Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Posts: 7,054	Hey Wes, that wheels up trick worked like a charm! I lifted the front end and racked the wheel over back and forth several times, added fluid and started it up. No whine. I ran the Jimmy to the carwash and shot some degreaser around the engine bay and especially the P/S components. It ran good. That's the good news. The bad news is, I may have a leak. I thought it was coming from the pump assy, but that was wishful thinking. Later tonight I checked underneath. The case of the pump was dry but the rear of the P/S gearbox was wet with PSF. That may be the root cause of this whole deal. I may feed it some P/S stop leak, since I have a 12 oz bottle on the shelf, to shore things up until I can get the tools together to R & R the Saginaw box. Since Prestone PSF is selling for $3.79/Qt and Pyroil PSF costs $2.69/Qt, I'm wondering if there is any difference in quality. The Prestone has a clear (almost bluish) color and the Pyroil [ made by Valvoline] has a yellow tinge to it. Pyroil looks and smells like this Sternol stuff we used to use on an aircraft I worked on many years ago. The question is can you mix them? I've heard not to, and that Prestone was the best, but at a buck-ten more, I don't think it's that much better. __________________ Every 25 years I like to rebuild that 292, whether it needs it or not.

09-14-2005, 02:38 PM	#11
Classic Heartbeat Project Junkie! Fishing Poor!! Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Olympia,Wa. 98512 Posts: 10,770	I am glad that it worked for you... Hopefully it saves you a few bucks. The leak could be for a couple of reasons. It is a common practice for some people to use transmission fluid in their power steering systems. The though is that they are both hydrolic fluids so why not? The problem is in the additives. The additives in transmission fluid eats seals in the power steering gears. The other of coarse is old age. It is not a good idea to mix brands, though I have in power steering systems befor. Lets face it, most people do not know what brand the previouse owner used so when adding fluid, we just add our favorites. It is less important in power steering than in the engines. I would use the cheaper brand, especially because your system leaks. If it didn't leak then I might go for a better brand name for the same reasons that you would a particular oil. Different brands have different properties.. Example: Arco gas... Cheap, but at least untill lately no cleaning additives. So fuil injected cars that use Arco gas need to run injector cleaner through there tanks every so often. Chevron gas has techrcycoline (spell) that Arco doesn't. You use Chevron gasoline, you do not have dirty injector problems. Now I didn't want this to a thread advertising for Chevron, but that is the point that I wanted to make. So to sum it up.... Leaky=cheapy fluid. Otherwise I would consider a better fluid. WES www.ClassicHeartbeat.com __________________ On-line catolog Classic Heartbeat Pickup Parts WEHEPP@comcast.net Call us Toll Free (888) 338-2502 Like Us on Facebook No appointment necessary. 72 BB Chevy Custom Deluxe / Custom Camper 67 I-6 (Soon to be 5.7 LS1) Panel 68 BB Chevy Short Bed 72 6.0 LQ9 Short Bed Chevy 4X4 Olympia's fastest growing truck parts supplier. Olympia's home for Wayward Chevys

09-15-2005, 04:29 AM	#12
'68OrangeSunshine Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Posts: 7,054	I took the '68 stepside today and let the Jimmy rest. It's got a slow leak, but I had to look really hard for any evidence. Pyroil is made by Valvoline, a quality lubricant maker, I think the price difference with Prestone is mostly marketing rather than manufacturing/quality costs. JMHO BTW-- in my junk shed I found a very early P/S pump. It has a metal cap with an aluminum dipstick. Stamped on top it states: USE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID TYPE A. No memory of where I got it. It was never on any of my trucks. __________________ Every 25 years I like to rebuild that 292, whether it needs it or not. Last edited by '68OrangeSunshine; 09-15-2005 at 04:32 AM.



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