350 Turns Over Hard and Squeaks

[Yaboyolin]

I have a 350 sbc, th400, and a gear reduction starter that has a new solenoid after the old one burned out (There was a short in the wiring). The thing turns over unbelievably hard, I figured with a hitorque starter it should be turning over nice and easy but it just doesn't want to. There's a really high pitch squeak/squeal whenever it does try to turn over like dragging metal on metal. It has oil though. I had it running for 10 seconds or so and there were no worrying sounds or anything of that nature. The starter is spaced off the block. The motor was supposedly rebuilt and running 3 years ago. All the rocker arms are moving like they should. I can't figure it out, any ideas?

[Mike_The_Grad]

Is the flex plate and starter pinion matched for the same tooth count? I think there is two different numbered tooth counts for the ring gear on the flexplate. 153-tooth for internally balanced motors and 168-tooth for externally balanced motors. I'm sure there are other ones also, but these two are pretty common.

[Yaboyolin]

Its one of those "universal" starter motors. To my understanding it can be used on either flexplate as it has 2 sets of mounting holes

[Mike_The_Grad]

Do you have it aligned properly in relation to the ring gear on the flex plate? I.e. not cocked at an angle. They usually have a diagram indicating how the starters pinion and the ring gear are suppose to engage included with the starter. If it's not within a certain measurement the pinion and ring gear will either get chewed up or the pinion can hang up on the ring gear because it can't fully retract.

[Yaboyolin]

I think it's installed correctly. I reinstalled it exactly like it came off when I took it off to replace the solenoid. My uncle, who rebuilt the motor, couldn't recall the starter ever giving him issues or anything of that nature. I'll double check clearances tomorrow though. Should be an 1/8" gap right? I don't have any install instructions

[Mike_The_Grad]

Also have you checked to make sure the flexplate isn't cracked? They can crack where they bolt to the crank flange or where the ring gear is welded to the flexplate. But I would think that would be a constant noise even after the motor has started running. I think the only way to inspect for cracks around the crank flange is to separate the engine and torque converter. Also, since you said the motor may have been rebuilt, whoever reinstalled the engine may have installed the flexplate incorrectly, "flipped around", this would put the ring gear in the wrong position for correct starter engagement, it also would cause problems with the torque converter to transmission engagement. Could you swap out the starter for a O.E. one and see if the problem is still there?

[Mike_The_Grad]

I can't say for sure if it's 1/8" some manufacturers may have different specs. Look up the part number online and see if you can download the literature for it.

[Boog]

Originally Posted by Yaboyolin

a gear reduction starter that has a new solenoid after the old one burned out (There was a short in the wiring). The thing turns over unbelievably hard, I figured with a hitorque starter it should be turning over nice and easy but it just doesn't want to. There's a really high pitch squeak/squeal whenever it does try to turn over like dragging metal on metal. I can't figure it out, any ideas?

That short may have damaged the starter internals. Low voltage to the starter due to weak battery or bad cables can also cause symptoms such as yours. Test battery
clean cables
have starter tested

[hamjet]

You're kind of vague on the history of the problems, like why did you change the starter in the first place. has it been sitting for a long time? I would remove the fan belt if it were mine to see if the alternator or water pump was froze up. if it turns over quick and no squeal you have something froze up causing the squeal on the belt. other than that I'd think you have a spun bearing. as said you need more details on how you got to this point before you had these problems...make sure you have a good ground from engine to frame also..

[LockDoc]

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Did you take the plugs out and squirt some penetrating oil or any kind of lubricant in the cylinders before trying to start it? The cylinder walls are going to be mighty dry if it has sat for three years.

LockDoc

[Yaboyolin]

I'll check the flexplate and everything today. But I'll give a little history of what happened. The truck sat for 3-4 years. It was given to me because it was just sitting (body rust). The engine was frozen when I got it. I soaked the cylinders in oil and diesel which got the engine to turn over by hand. The starter was there when I got the truck, when it failed, it was rebuilt by a professional who had it tested and replaced the solenoid. Nothing like the water pump or alternator is frozen as the belts were just installed and I had this issue before I put them on. Battery is good. Cable is new. I've cleaned the ground but will check again as that cable was quite dirty

[firedemon]

pull all the plugs and see if it turns over easy by hand

[Yaboyolin]

It turns over by hand, not what I would call easy, but it's the only engine I've ever turned over by hand so I don't have anything to compare it to. If it's supposed to be turned over effortlessly then no, it's far from that. But I'm not putting a ton of effort in to doing it

[firedemon]

with the plugs out it should be fairly easy with a socket and ratchet on the crank bolt with them in it will turn harder if its turning ok id say starter problem just because its new dosent mean its good . but check the wiring to the starter before you go replacing the starter including the wire from the key . check youtube for voltage drop to starter vids

[Mike_The_Grad]

Just to clarify, you only get the high pitch sound while cranking the engine? My 350 does it every so often, loose belts. My power steering belt kept loosening up every few hundred miles. And me not wanting to risk damaging the pump body, I felt I couldn't find a good place to pry against to get proper tension. Until I was scrounging around my garage one time and found my "spud" wrench, basin wrench, for tighten faucets under sinks. The spring loaded jaw grabbed around the pump shaft perfectly where there was a small flat I could latch onto. Belt has stayed tight ever since then. One way to tell if it's belts is remove them and start up the engine. A few seconds with out the accessories won't hurt it.

[Yaboyolin]

The starter and ignition wiring is all new because the old one was shorting out somewhere and I am just trying to get the truck to start right now. I know the key switch is new as it's aftermarket and it was used on another vehicle for years with no isssues. I stated above that none of the belts were installed until the the other day and the problem was occurring before that

[Mike_The_Grad]

Gotcha. My bad. At least checking the flexplate teeth is an easy thing to do and would be pretty obvious if that's where the issue lies.

[LockDoc]

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If you haven't, Also try turning it over with the starter with the plugs out and see if that makes any difference.....

LockDoc

[Yaboyolin]

I cleaned the grounds and recharged the battery. Added a folded beer can to act like a temporary spacer between the starter and block. Had my stepdad whose been driving and owns many old trucks like these his entire life come over and help. The engine is now turning over as it should. It's still squealing, but my stepdad thinks it's the starter whining so I'll have it looked at again. The flywheel looks good, and it doesn't seem like a spun bearing as we had it running today and didn't hear any strange noises and the squeaking seemed to stop. The guy that replaced the solenoid is trusted and has rebuilt many starters for the trucks and tractors on our farm, he'll look over and fix it for free if it was something he missed or didn't fix. Thanks for all the help and insight

[Mike_The_Grad]

Good stuff.�� you could pull the starter and have it tested at a local autozone or oreillys, or what ever chain autoparts store you got around you. Also clean any paint or gunk between the block and starter and whatever spacer material you use. Clean up the bolts and chase the threads in the block if they have paint in them. Clean bare metal is the best conductor.

[Boog]

Yabolin. Good deal. You are getting there.

[garyd1961]

Are you using the correct starter bolts?

[trac209]

Post a vid if you can will do wonders to diagnose issue

[El Dorado Jim]

sub'd

[67 chevelle]

Originally Posted by Yaboyolin

I cleaned the grounds and recharged the battery. Added a folded beer can to act like a temporary spacer between the starter and block. Had my stepdad whose been driving and owns many old trucks like these his entire life come over and help. The engine is now turning over as it should. It's still squealing, but my stepdad thinks it's the starter whining so I'll have it looked at again. The flywheel looks good, and it doesn't seem like a spun bearing as we had it running today and didn't hear any strange noises and the squeaking seemed to stop. The guy that replaced the solenoid is trusted and has rebuilt many starters for the trucks and tractors on our farm, he'll look over and fix it for free if it was something he missed or didn't fix. Thanks for all the help and insight

Hows the oil pressure when running ?