'Spot'

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Well.... I bought 2.5" tubing for the muffler back exhaust & there's no freakin room to run piping w/o being directly in the path of the hitch and/or bed bolt access. Now I get why so many just dump the exhaust w/a stock bed floor.

That is where I am at too. I am considering using a set of V-band clamps to make the tail pipes removable from the back of the mufflers and routing them directly under the frame rails out the back so they can straddle the spare tire.

When access is needed to the hardware above it is a simple process to pull the tail pipe that is in the way.

I need to relocate the spare tire hoist closer to the rear end so the tire can clear the hidden hitch and roll pan. After that I can try to fit the dual 2-1/2" tail pipes in that limited space.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 68 TT

That is where I am at too. I am considering using a set of V-band clamps to make the tail pipes removable from the back of the mufflers and routing them directly under the frame rails out the back so they can straddle the spare tire.

When access is needed to the hardware above it is a simple process to pull the tail pipe that is in the way.

I need to relocate the spare tire hoist closer to the rear end so the tire can clear the hidden hitch and roll pan. After that I can try to fit the dual 2-1/2" tail pipes in that limited space.

Well, I nixed the under-bed spare. Never was a fan of those. In all my years of driving, I've always carried the spare in the bed & even then, only when I felt the need.

I just don't want the exhaust in the way of accessing the hitch hardware. Currently the hitch hangs below the bumper & under the frame rails. My plan is to eventually mount it 'hidden' behind the license plate of the factory sport bumper. Since I know I'll be attempting that, I'm just going to dump them for now & re-visit the tailpipe issue then.

[LT7A]

Nice work on this SCOTI. How does it ride and drive with all the changes?

[SCOTI]

It has a very acceptable ride. The Bilsteins are firm but don't beat you up & they have proper travel. I've yet to have anything make hard contact suspension wise but it's only got a couple-hundred miles @ most. I walk to work so most of the miles have been on several highway trips (45mins each way) to Summit Racing in Arlington Tx & then a G-body parts run to Temple Tx. It handles the common road irregularities well. I did tear up the aftermarket air-dam (cracked it all the way through on one side). I trimmed the air-dam on my 1/2 ton shorter & will likely get another & trim it as well for this one.

Exhaust is still sitting in a box on the shop floor. Haven't had a nice calm Sat/Sun that would allow pulling the bed off for the work. It's too much effort to tackle it when it's windy outside. I'll be re-checking all installation hardware when that happens & inspecting for any signs of trouble.

[LT7A]

Good to know, thanks. I always like the first few drives after replacing anything-other-than-Bilsteins with Bilsteins.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by LT7A

Good to know, thanks. I always like the first few drives after replacing anything-other-than-Bilsteins with Bilsteins.

LoL....

I drove my dually around today. It reminded me I need to lube the 4-bar joints & figure out my front caliper clips on it. It was noisy suspension wise vs. Spot w/all it's squeaking & clickity-clackin.

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

LoL....

I drove my dually around today. It reminded me I need to lube the 4-bar joints & figure out my front caliper clips on it. It was noisy suspension wise vs. Spot w/all it's squeaking & clickity-clackin.

Maybe so, but at least you got it out for a bit. Which rig do you drive the most?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by LT7A

Maybe so, but at least you got it out for a bit. Which rig do you drive the most?

Spot is the DD. The others make me paranoid when out of sight around town. Plus that 4l80e makes for a nicer drive for the highway trip vs 3krpm.

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Spot is the DD. The others make me paranoid when out of sight around town. Plus that 4l80e makes for a nicer drive for the highway trip vs 3krpm.

Copy that. Any further plans for Spot?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by LT7A

Copy that. Any further plans for Spot?

For sure. I don't leave any of them alone. It's the perfect starting point to end up as a CC SWB dually w/some big wheels. You never know.

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

For sure. I don't leave any of them alone. It's the perfect starting point to end up as a CC SWB dually w/some big wheels. You never know.

Cool, I am always plotting next steps too.

[spr85gmc]

Been digging for a threat like this for a while. I have a 98 long bed crew cab that I've been thinking about slamming on 22-inch 8 lug Detroit Delrays.... Is anyone still around this forum

[SCOTI]

I'm here every day; betting others are as well. I don't add content just for the sake of adding content though.

I DO have some updates coming but it won't begin for a few/several weeks. I'm getting my back-up vehicle repaired so I can have Spot (aka whitetrash) down for the changes.

Upcoming work:

• ABS corrections. The 'brain' that controls the functionality doesn't work. The ABS constantly engages over rough/uneven road surfaces which makes driving a chore. Asphalt patches, potholes, RR tracks, or just braking over un-even road surfaces can trigger the ABS when applying the brakes. Def can't let someone else drive it because of what it takes. I'll be 'correcting' that issue.

• Front end suspension changes. We cannot seem to get decent Caster settings w/the Camber where I want it on this one. From the get-go, it's pulled slightly to the right. I noted aggressive tire wear on the outer edges as well & we put it on the rack again to verify things didn't move/shift. My buddy tried again to dial in the Caster & Toe but the eccentric arrangement is limiting his adjustment range. I've been investigating adjustable upper a-arms but might just tweak what came from GM. I won't make the final call until I can remove one side for deeper investigation.

• Exhaust. As of this month, the truck is officially done w/emissions testing (once it hits 25yrs, testing is no longer required here). I still have the exhaust system to re-work w/the parts already on hand. The age of things now might have some impact on the original scope of that project.

• A/C revamp. We charged the A/C last summer in June & it worked reasonably well until a line ruptured this fall/winter. By 'reasonably well' I mean 45° vent temps while on the move but it quickly creeped up >10° when sitting idle. I swapped a new clutch fan in place w/no change so a new condenser was in my future. So, a condenser, hoses, & recharge was the plan. But, I scored an unbroken dash in March '23 so it's likely I'll add that work into the A/C re-vamp so I can do the accumulator while replacing the other stuff. The blend door motors are also non-functional.... It's a 'while you're in there' thing right??

• Interior. As soon as I owned the truck one of the first things done was pulling the nasty, stained, stinky-arse carpet out. With it gone, i swapped the 60/40 front bench for buckets & console package. If/when the dash gets pulled & swapped, I'll go ahead & finally get some interior isolation products & carpet down on the floor. I'll hit up my interior guy & likely re-work the headliner that officially let loose along the front windshield last summer from driving w/the windows down w/the high heat climate.

I've been monitoring front tire wear & know I just now have cord showing through the rubber (<10k miles). New tires are already here but I won't put them on until I correct the front alignment situation.
So.... The front alignment & brake problems will be the immediate priority.

[Shifty One]

Dang...highly envious of your skills Scoti.

[SCOTI]

So I did some additional investigating to sort through my alignment/tire wear issue. I've been trying to learn what others are getting/using on their alignment specs. While searching the web for what guys are achieving, most were just going by what GM called for (and what I assumed).

I'm used to the previous GENs C10 ability to manipulate the alignment specs/targets vs this newer GEN/OBS chassis. Ridetech specs for the 88-98 OBS tubular StrongArm set-ups call for:

• NEG .5° Camber

• POS 3.0° -- 5.0° Caster

• 1/16 -- 1/8 Toe In

I told my buddy to dial in the NEG .5° Camber; put as much Caster as he could w/that Camber target, & set Toe to OE spec. He did this & I had a 'pulls to the Right' issue from the start. In all the years I've lowered my vehicles, I'm familiar w/this issue ("you'll feel a slight pull but it won't wear the tires"). That being said, it's hit or miss. On this one, it was a miss & chewed up the fronts in about 15k or fewer miles.

We got it back on the rack again recently to review where things were & see if something changed after the chassis settled (*I didn't think it should have settled since I re-used the original springs minus a coil trimmed off). He tried messing w/the Caster but it's @ the limits of the factory a-arm mount 'knock-out' holes/slots where the alignment eccentrics adjust the settings.

My plan was to go aftermarket & get adjustable upper arms so I can have more adjustability. The set-back was the only adjustable C2500 spec upper arms I could find utilize fixed bushings which don't give me the warm & fuzzies because once you alter the length of a 'leg' on a control arm that mounts to the chassis in this arrangement, the centerline of the pivot for the arm is changed. To me. that change would induce bind because the bushings would no longer be 'square' within the mounting tabs on the frame. This may or may-not be a notable issue; but it would suck to spend $600 only to have created a problem. My solution was going to utilize a better set-up (w/spherical bearings) that allowed making the changes but keeping the pivots from bind. But the spherical bearing set-up requires 1/2 ton spec BJ's which have a diff foot-print vs 2500/3500 BJ's. Thers's a solution to that as well.....

But, I'm going to tweak the factory mounting tabs first because I don't know what the lead time will be on my new uppers & I need this thing mobile vs idle. I'm going to increase the lengths of the slots to see what he can get away with. If it still has the pull after the change, I'll opt for the owner modded aftermarket uppers.

It's apart now to extend the slots. I should be able to get it back together tonight & hopefully he can squeeze me in before the weekend to see if extending the slots allows the ability for him to adjust things more/where we need (want ).

This where we left things after he hit the wall & couldn't adjust any further. I told him don't worry about the numbers because I wouldn't be driving it until the upper arms could be adjusted more. This will be the baseline w/the OE limts. It was @ -0.4/-0.5 Camber before he started trying to dial-in more Caster:

[SCOTI]

Update....

Extending the slots didn't work for the exact reason I challenged him on (there's only so far the head of the bolt can travel within the confines of how the bracket is stamped/formed).

I'm trying to get the new arms on the way but the hurdles there have been frustrating. I'll update again once the arms are in my hands.

[SCOTI]

I have still yet to hear from the guy that builds the a-arms I was going to use.

He's a one-man show. I understand there can be delays but I've been waiting to receive some sort of pmt/transaction number from him to tie the funds to before I send/transfer the money. I will not just send $$ through PayPal w/o some sort of reference as for what it's for.

But, during the waiting period I've still been pushing/investigating. I came across exactly what I assumed was out there but few know about (or discuss?). I found 'offset' bushings for the front control arms. These will allow dialing in more vs what the OE 'centered' bushing limits are.

The bushings are 'indexed'. How they are clocked when pressed into the arm is important upon assembly. I'm still strategizing on the clocking position that will get me closest to my NEG -.5 Camber w/close to POS +4-5° Caster. I currently purchased bushings for one arm but might just do both sides if the plotting suggests there's a benefit.

I also tried one other idea just to rule it out. I was curious how much POS Caster gain there might be if swapping the arms side to side (they are not universal). Just playing around w/the current arm & flipping it suggested it might be possible. I didn't want to go through that work so I just bought another pair of arms to do a quick visual comparison.

It could work but I'm not sure how aggressive the numbers would be when it's all said & done. I do feel it would be too aggressive & there could be other issues as a result. I just did the driver side since that's where the focus has been. Flipping the existing arm to get a visual yielded a diff result vs. actually putting the Right arm on the Left side.

So, for now I'll push forward w/the offset bushings & see where that goes.

[LT7A]

Will watch with interest. There may be a 3/4 2WD in my future.

[SCOTI]

I wish I had an update but I'm still waiting on my buddy to have time on the alignment rack. It's getting frustrating.....

[SCOTI]

Updating this one...

My original idea/suggestion was the way it was aligned & the way it was achieved was a diff alignment guy.

I explained the issue to the different tech & said I felt that if more Caster was dialed on the Pass side, the Driver side could possibly get dialed in within the half degree to work. That's what he did & didn't even need the offset bushings.

I've almost burned through the 7month old gas in the tank & it's nice to have it back in the rotation.

[DZL1]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I'm here every day; betting others are as well. I don't add content just for the sake of adding content though.

I DO have some updates coming but it won't begin for a few/several weeks. I'm getting my back-up vehicle repaired so I can have Spot (aka whitetrash) down for the changes.

Upcoming work:

• ABS corrections. The 'brain' that controls the functionality doesn't work. The ABS constantly engages over rough/uneven road surfaces which makes driving a chore. Asphalt patches, potholes, RR tracks, or just braking over un-even road surfaces can trigger the ABS when applying the brakes. Def can't let someone else drive it because of what it takes. I'll be 'correcting' that issue.

• Front end suspension changes. We cannot seem to get decent Caster settings w/the Camber where I want it on this one. From the get-go, it's pulled slightly to the right. I noted aggressive tire wear on the outer edges as well & we put it on the rack again to verify things didn't move/shift. My buddy tried again to dial in the Caster & Toe but the eccentric arrangement is limiting his adjustment range. I've been investigating adjustable upper a-arms but might just tweak what came from GM. I won't make the final call until I can remove one side for deeper investigation.

• Exhaust. As of this month, the truck is officially done w/emissions testing (once it hits 25yrs, testing is no longer required here). I still have the exhaust system to re-work w/the parts already on hand. The age of things now might have some impact on the original scope of that project.

• A/C revamp. We charged the A/C last summer in June & it worked reasonably well until a line ruptured this fall/winter. By 'reasonably well' I mean 45° vent temps while on the move but it quickly creeped up >10° when sitting idle. I swapped a new clutch fan in place w/no change so a new condenser was in my future. So, a condenser, hoses, & recharge was the plan. But, I scored an unbroken dash in March '23 so it's likely I'll add that work into the A/C re-vamp so I can do the accumulator while replacing the other stuff. The blend door motors are also non-functional.... It's a 'while you're in there' thing right??

• Interior. As soon as I owned the truck one of the first things done was pulling the nasty, stained, stinky-arse carpet out. With it gone, i swapped the 60/40 front bench for buckets & console package. If/when the dash gets pulled & swapped, I'll go ahead & finally get some interior isolation products & carpet down on the floor. I'll hit up my interior guy & likely re-work the headliner that officially let loose along the front windshield last summer from driving w/the windows down w/the high heat climate.

I've been monitoring front tire wear & know I just now have cord showing through the rubber (<10k miles). New tires are already here but I won't put them on until I correct the front alignment situation.
So.... The front alignment & brake problems will be the immediate priority.

Hey Scoti, thanks for sharing your progress with pics and explanations. I have a question on your plans for abs corrections. I have a 96 with the Kelsey Hayes abs and although I'm not having the issues you have, my brakes suck. I've read that a automated bleed will fix that but it didn't on mine. So I've been thinking of just removing the abs altogether and doing a traditional setup. Is that what your planning to do on yours?

Keep up the good work!

[special-K]

Good to hear you got it right for driving now. Thanks for all the information along the way and for the follow-up.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by DZL1

Hey Scoti, thanks for sharing your progress with pics and explanations. I have a question on your plans for abs corrections. I have a 96 with the Kelsey Hayes abs and although I'm not having the issues you have, my brakes suck. I've read that a automated bleed will fix that but it didn't on mine. So I've been thinking of just removing the abs altogether and doing a traditional setup. Is that what your planning to do on yours?

Keep up the good work!

Yes. This is the plan.

Between the Thanksgiving -Xmas holiday periods I visited my buddy that has my old '90 Sierra single cab. He preplaced all the lines on the truck w/new stainless pieces along w/the next GEN master cylinder (vs the 88-98 version).

I snagged those OE lines for some comparing to mine & was going to remake what I had to using NiCopp tubing for the elimination of the ABS. The '90 vs '99 line routing is different ('99 being more complex). Not sure which path I'll choose but I wanted to compare for extra insight making choices.

[DZL1]

Scoti, thanks for the quick response. Gonna start on that change asap. I got my 89 that I'm currently doing floor pan and rockers panels rust replacement. You know...fun stuff.

Thanks again.