Tbi swap build thread

[cjracing15]

Larry you have a very good point about the old harness on the fact that it is old and the wires are brittle, (mine has been for the most part very managable though) and me and you talked about me buying a harness from Howell. I am right now off work untill the first of the year and I want to get this swap done before I go back to work. Untill I go back to work I really do not need to spend any more money than I have to. So I had the stock harness and decitted to use it. When I decited to do that I thougt while I was searching the net for info on this swap that the info is out there but you really have to look every where for it. So I decited to start this build thread to maybe help other people out that want to do this swap and use salvage parts in the process to save a buck or two.

I really do appreciate the input that people are putting in this thread ( like you and rf).

Got to go and work on my truck now.

[cjracing15]

Well I did not get to work on it as much as I wanted to to day but did get a little done.

First two is a before and after on one side of the motor. This is where the ESC, TPS, MAP, IAC, EGR , and temp plugs are located. You can also see where the wires enter the cab

The others are the wires that I will have to hook up in the cab. They are

B-10 park/neutral
A-5 SES light
A-8 ALDL
A-9 ALDL

[cjracing15]

Here are some of the wires that I will have to hook up that do not have factory plugs.

The first one turned out fuzzy but it is the 12 V feed wire (I am going to put it to the big post on the starter with a inline fuse).

The second is C-9 this wire goes to the sm post on the stater.

The Third is the switched 12 volt wire. ( I am going to put it on the smaller wire that pluged into the orginal HEI BAT terminal).

The Foruth is the ground wire for the system.

The Fifth pic is the wire that will power the dist. ( I am going to tie it to the big HEI wire that is on the truck now.

[rfmaster]

Gents

VSS is important as it is not only used for the lock-up torque converter control. The VSS is also used to control the EGR valve, idle speed, and air/fuel ratio. I have to emphasize that the VSS is used to control the idle speed when the vehicle is moving. Without the VSS, engine may have stalling problems under certain conditions, which in itself is dangerous. You can increase minimum idle speed with the adjusting screw and eliminate stalling, but the engine will still not run optimally without a VSS.
Somewhat erroneously many think that running "closed loop" is best for fuel mileage - it is not. In closed loop NBO sensor is being used to monitor the exhaust O2 content and ECM changes commanded AFR. There are ECM's that allow engine to run very lean (15:1 to 17:1) under certain conditions (called "highway lean mode") to improve fuel mileage during - for example steady cruise conditions (no delta TPS, no delta MAP). Without VSS, ECM will not get the correct signals to run the engine for best fuel mileage. So if you are planning to drive long distances and burn less fuel VSS is a must. For my retrofit I used JTR Part #2PRS which is two-pulse per revolution, square wave unit for all TBI installations, 7/8-18 thread, .104" square drive. BTW, I get 17.5 MPG on extended cruises (that's 6500lbs moving at 65 MPH).

//RF

[rfmaster]

Photos from my swap

It all started innocently enough in the fall of 06 - another tune-up and idle quality and cold starts are hideous with old Q-jet. After a bit of reading I came across a TBI 4.3 swap into a Jeep...
http://www.bustedjeep.com/projects/junkyardtbi.asp

After reading and a quick trip to a local pull it your self JY


ECM / Harness /Dizzy (useless) / sensors


It took over 2 hours at JY to carefully pull this tangled mess without breaking anything in the process. The firewall grommet in this B body used epoxy like filler to keep everything together - nasty to remove.


After another 2 hours the harness was hanged like a deer for cleaning.



Removed wires and vacuum lines used by AC control circuits



Final harness, arranged and labeled


Surprisingly enough wires were in excellent shape - no breaks this was a low millage car. I did had to replaced several connectors - broken tabs and shorter overall runs. However in my next conversion I will get new harness - just to save time! Initial harness fitting:

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by phase_one

I know I cant use the towers out of the van can I use the towers off of the inline 6 (250)?

The 6 cylinder engine mount towers in your ’70 C10 will not work. If you plan on using the G-van or any of the newer style exhaust manifolds you will need either 67-72 big block towers or use 73-87 2wd towers like I did on my ’72.

[phase_one]

What fuel tanks are yall guys using? I got my engine out of a van and that tank is too large, but the fuel sending unit on it is new a was hoping to use the unit. Just wondering what you guys are doing?

[cjracing15]

Originally Posted by phase_one

What fuel tanks are yall guys using? I got my engine out of a van and that tank is too large, but the fuel sending unit on it is new a was hoping to use the unit. Just wondering what you guys are doing?

I am using a used tank off of a 87 truck. you can use a frame mounted pump like some others have done on this thread. I am using the EFI tank because I have it and I want this to be a low buck swap.

[DirtyLarry]

Yep, me too. I am using a 1987 TBI fuel tank as well. The frame mounted pump didn’t work so well on my ’78 but on the ’72 it is working find so far.

Hey, Jamie… I have a few of those EFI hose clamps left over. The cheap Chinese hose claims I found at Autozone and Checker scared me as they were so flimsy so I wound up buy a box full from Napa. I’ll email you a few...

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

I have a few of those EFI hose clamps left over. The cheap Chinese hose claims I found at Autozone and Checker scared me as they were so flimsy so I wound up buy a box full from Napa. I’ll email you a few...

I second this as well - worst yet the garbage Chinese made hose clamps are prone to rust through - I had several fail before. A while back I took the failed clamps to my failure analysis engineer for failure analysis. He told me that they used 'pot' steel and cheap cadmium plating to make it look shiny. Once the set screw striped off surface plating rust started immediately. It's a good thing we found in time during our annual maintenance cycle. End up getting some Ideal clamps - these are wider (5/16") than normal hose clamps and have beveled edges and solid clamping face that does not bite into the rubber hose. Look for them in specialty industrial supply places or online.
http://www.autobarn.net/iddifuincl.html
If you are really serious (or paranoia) - use marine grade 304SS clamps - but these are very expensive for automotive use and will last a long time!

//RF

[cjracing15]

I have had bad luck with the cheap clamps and DO NOT use them any more. I will hold off a few days untill I can get some real ones at the good parts house here in town. ( but thanks for the link for auto barn i will check them out.)
I hardly buy anything anywhere else in town unless it is after hours and I HAVE TO. I hate the cheap crap,.. you waste your time and money with it.

Larry if you can find out a way of E-Mailing those clamps go ahead and send them.

Thanks, Jamie

[cjracing15]

Well I got a little futher along today. I finnally got all the under hood wires and under the dash wires run.
I droped the stock tank and, it is a good thing I did it was just about to rust through. I changed out the old stock pump in my EFI tank with a new pump and, ran my lines from the tank to the switching valve. Also ran the lines along the frame up to the throtle body.

I pluged in my cluster and wired my Check engine light and turned on the ignition and presto all my lights worked.

All I like now is installing my EFI tank, wire the pump, change the orings for the throttle body gas lines, put my pullys back on the engine. Then fire that mother up!

Pics tomarrow.(I left the camera at dads shop)

[gchemist]

Here a good website source for TBI swaps: http://users.sfo.com/~eagle/howell.html

[408cuda]

Hey Guys, been working late and haven't had time to post anything. I wired it up as shown here, not sure if I forgot something but this should about cover it. Forgive the grade school artwork. All of the other ECM and sensor wires are untouched if not noted, everything is hooked up as it was other than the o2 sensor, plan to wire a 3 or 4 wire but probably not until after we fire it (will use the 1 wire temporarily)

The truck has an electric speedo and no VSS buffer that I can find and I traced the wiring under the donor dash to the cluster. We are trying to make the 88 speedo work in the 59 so that would help put that fire out. Will I need to do anything with the VSS wires to get it to run? We hope to test fire it soon. I ran new plug wires last night and buttoned up the under dash wiring. Just need to move the knock sensor and slide the donor tank under temporarily and plumb it up and she should be about ready. I can't move the KS to the other side because the headers are block huggers and dump right into the center on both sides. I might see if I can mod the KS wire/connector to clear the header as it isn't hitting by much.

If something looks off I'm all ears.

Thanks again,
Chad

[rfmaster]

1) ECM B1 & C16 to battery - must be always hot (see chart and diagram).
2) You do not need VSS to get the engine fired, but you'll need it once you get it into driving condition.
3) Many other circuits must be wired-up before you can really drive it.... (Brake, turn, back up, etc)

//RF

[D13]

Depending on which 88 (NBS = pickup) you got it from the trans may supply pulses to the ECM which then filters it to run the speedo. The other version (OBS = burb/blazer) uses cable drive speedo with a VSS output box hung on it. Either way you need the appropriate input. Old style uses 4000 pulse per mile and the new one uses like a 132,000 signal divided and dropped down for various systems. There were a couple years of crossovers where Burbs has cable drive trans rather than electronic outputs. Need to make sure your trans/dash/ecm all play together.

[408cuda]

Just a quick update. It lives! Had it running 3 or 4 times today. Sounds decent but did trip the SES light for the o2 sensor which was no surprise as it's jb welded into ~2' of ex pipe and the other side is open header. This was just to see if would even run. Lots of odds and ends to do now but we're on our way. Pretty uneventful test fire overall. We hooked the donor tank up under it and once it had fuel psi to the TB she took right off.

Checked the alt and only showed about 12.5v, need to look into that still.

rf, the diagrams are amazing. The ignition one will really be a great help to those thinking of doing this. I plan to study the headlights and will put to use when we get to that. Thanks again!

Hope I didn't steal your thread cj, but another tbi swap running and you guys were a big help. More questions to follow I'm sure.

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by 408cuda

Just a quick update. It lives! Had it running 3 or 4 times today. Sounds decent but did trip the SES light for the o2 sensor which was no surprise as it's jb welded into ~2' of ex pipe and the other side is open header. This was just to see if would even run. Lots of odds and ends to do now but we're on our way. Pretty uneventful test fire overall. We hooked the donor tank up under it and once it had fuel psi to the TB she took right off.

Checked the alt and only showed about 12.5v, need to look into that still.

rf, the diagrams are amazing. The ignition one will really be a great help to those thinking of doing this. I plan to study the headlights and will put to use when we get to that. Thanks again!

Hope I didn't steal your thread cj, but another tbi swap running and you guys were a big help. More questions to follow I'm sure.

Cuda

No worries about the thread - we are here to help (especially now). Do you know which alternator you have mounted on your motor??? I am guessing (based on a posted photo) that it is CS130 - should have four terminal connector with pins labeled S F L P and a stud labeled "Bat". Please confirm which alternator you have.

//RF

[pancake]

195/202@.050,.390/.410" lift stock?

[cjracing15]

Originally Posted by pancake

That is a graet deal.

I have a surburban 08/1989 for parts. My friend said it has a blown head gasket. For $300.00 I can have anyuthing off it I want including all the TBI stuff. I will be pulling it tomarrow morning. I can get LOTS of parts off it. I will pull the heads and see how they look. If they are ok I will have the valves done and use them. I will keep you updated and thanks for looking for those deals.

Now THATS a great deal. Make sure you pull all of the tbi stuff harness and all. It will take a little while but I would get every inch of wire that I can inculding the fuse box. Evreything unplugs and comes out intack. So good luck and keep us posted.

[pancake]

So I pulled the TBI stuff from my friends 90 Suburban. I checked the numbers and it is a 350 c.i. set up (ECM 1227747 BCC ASDU). I was not able to get the K.S., it was "stuck". I took the intake to the machine shop Thursday so they could hot tank it and he gave me the 4 shims/spacers I would need to put the intake on my heads (the four ceneter bolts will not line up). I sorted out the wiring and cleaned most of the other parts.


When I was doing the wiring I came up with a few more questions:

On the Oil Preasure sensor there are three wires...The light brown one went to the fuse block...Where does it go? Gauge?

I think I have the rest of the wires figured out except the ADAL connector:

Can you please guide me as to where these wires go?
A-BLK/WHT
B-WHT/BLK
C-DRK BRN
E-ORNG
F-LT BRN/BLK
H-White

Also, I belive it is the neutral switch (one PURPLE/WHT and one Wht wire) has a jumper across the wires at the connector under the dash. What do I do with this?

I can/will post pictures soon.

Thanks again for all the help.

[pancake]

Sorry a few more questions:

C9-PURP/WHT where does it go?
C2-Brown (I do not have a Air Diverter Valve)
D1-LT TAN/BLK ground?

I do not have an A7 wire--where do I hook up the SES light?
A4 GRY goes to the EGR--PNK/BLK bundels and goes to injectors and ESC then loops back to A6(PNK/BLK)
rfmaster in post #108 on this thread you show something coming of A4 (every 1990 5.7 and 7.4L0...I do not have one of these in the harness??

also in post 108 on A6 you have the PNK/BLK wire going to hot in start and run..and ECM 1 fuse. what is the fuse rating? (10,20,30 amp?) what should the rest of the fuse ratings going to the ECM (B1,A4)

Where should I start looking for a wire that is hot in start and run?

[cjracing15]

Originally Posted by 408cuda

Hope I didn't steal your thread cj, but another tbi swap running and you guys were a big help. More questions to follow I'm sure.

This is why I started this thread. I am glad you have got it running.

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by cjracing15

This is why I started this thread. I am glad you have got it running.

Any updates since the last post????

Drove my truck for the first time in three weeks - engine runs silky smooth (everything works) with warm weather is here to stay for the next couple of days.

Aghhh - Found collector leak - you can hear it and there are carbon deposits were it leaks.

//RF

[cjracing15]

Check this out.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=322028

This is out of a 90 subrban witch means all the wires are for a squarebody truck. I used a 90 subrban harness for my set-up and this guy will treat you right. He doesn't sell junk.