I think it’s time for a new transmission

[Asshat]

I got the truck off the jack stands after pulling the motor and doing rings. Motor runs good, seems like everything is ok there. I drove it around the block and it felt like it was binding in the trans area. Can’t really tell what the hell is up, but either the trans is bad or I screwed up with the clutch somehow.

I let the motor get warmed up; when I first let the clutch out backing out of the garage it felt like it was grabbing, really bad. That went away, however, after putting it in third gear it seemed to be binding, something just wasn’t right. I went about 500 feet, and slowed down. Went into 2nd, and turned a small corner, just didn’t want to go. Sounded kinda noisy too, from the trans area. At first I thought the motor was seizing up or a connecting rod was outta whack. Shut it down for a few minutes.
Started right back up, motor sounded good and was able to pull it back into the driveway.

I’m sure I need to pull the transmission, so that’s a given. Wondering if I should just go with a 700R4 or something. I was at the Truck Shop in Orange, talking to a guy with a beautiful 64 Impala Vert, he said, just put an automatic overdrive in it.

Geez, what is the cheapest, easiest way to get this damn thing going? I don’t want to put money into this 4 speed, if I’m getting a new trans, it may as well be overdrive. But the shifter has to be on the floor, not willing to change the steering column.

What do you guys think?

[Desert dog]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. To answer your question the easiest, cheapest way to address the issue is to fix what you have. Swapping in an automatic would entail a lot of work and expense.
In order to install an 700R4 you would need to install a new rear crossmember, have the driveshaft shortened, purchase a tranny, torque converter, flex plate, starter, tranny cooler, shifter, and other assorted parts and fluids. It could run well over 2k by the time you're done.
You're issue could be something relatively simple like a bad clutch or perhaps the pressure plate installed backwards.
Respectfully, my advise would be to take a deep breath, and pull the tranny to assess the problem.

[AcampoDave]

It sounds like you need to double check the clutch adjustment. Pull that new hand brake, then the inspection cover. Using your hand on the fork, move the bearing into the pressure plate and click it back and forth. Adjust the clutch rod so that the bearing is almost as close to the pressure plate as you can get it without actually rubbing it. Spin the bearing with your fingers to check to see that it doesn't rub. You want just a tad of freeplay there so the bearing won't contact and wear during driving. Depress the clutch pedal and spin the bearing with your fingers once more just to be sure it's good. Then try it out.

[Asshat]

After sleeping on it, I’m thinking the propeller shaft ebrake may be adjusted too tight. That may cause it to feel like it is being held back. I’ll have to remove the transmission cover and check. Also noticed excessive smoke from around the trans area. That’s a possibility.

When I had it up on all four jack stands, I ran the motor and shifted through a few gears, everything seemed fine at the time. However, at that time, I did not have the ebrake installed.

[Steeveedee]

If the trans was OK before you pulled the engine, it should be OK now. It may well be the ebrake is too tight.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

If the trans was OK before you pulled the engine, it should be OK now. It may well be the ebrake is too tight.

Not sure how thick the material was on the original brake; the thinnest I could find from McMaster Carr was 3/16.

[Asshat]

Well, the brake lining is loosened up and it is not binding.
It drove better, just noisy. On acceleration I hear noise from the trans/clutch area, just a loud gearbox sounding loudness. It would subside when I let my foot off the gas. Probably didn’t get over 30mph. Seems like it won’t go much faster than that.

I think I’m going to have to pull the trans. Sure as hell don’t want to rebuild this trans. Rather spend money on an overdrive.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by Asshat

Well, the brake lining is loosened up and it is not binding.
It drove better, just noisy. On acceleration I hear noise from the trans/clutch area, just a loud gearbox sounding loudness. It would subside when I let my foot off the gas. Probably didn’t get over 30mph. Seems like it won’t go much faster than that.

I think I’m going to have to pull the trans. Sure as hell don’t want to rebuild this trans. Rather spend money on an overdrive.

Did this condition exist before pulling the engine? The engine was pretty noisy and could have covered up transmission noise, but what kind of speed could you get up to before the engine work? The trans laid on it's side, under the truck. It's filled with oil, right? Did you do anything with the crank, and is the pilot bushing still in the crank? Or did you replace it?

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Did this condition exist before pulling the engine? The engine was pretty noisy and could have covered up transmission noise, but what kind of speed could you get up to before the engine work? The trans laid on it's side, under the truck. It's filled with oil, right? Did you do anything with the crank, and is the pilot bushing still in the crank? Or did you replace it?

Only drove it about 1000 feet before engine work. There was a lot of noise then; at that time had the trans cover on without bolts - could have contributed to the noise.

The trans laid on it's side, under the truck. It's filled with oil, right?
Yes, drained the trans so I could replace the side cover gasket, added almost 3 quarts of gear oil.
Did you do anything with the crank, and is the pilot bushing still in the crank? Or did you replace it?
Did not pull the crank and did not replace the bushing, the original one is still in there.

[Asshat]

Can anyone tell if this is an overdrive trans, I believe it is a 3-speed.

[cwcarpenter98]

That's not an overdrive transmission

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by cwcarpenter98

That's not an overdrive transmission

How can you tell?

And, aren’t there special driving considerations for the 3-speed overdrive? It also may not stay engaged when parked?

[The Rocknrod]

3 Speed Overdrive:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=606021

[cwcarpenter98]

Here's the overdrive transmission I put in my truck compared to the non-overdrive one I pulled out. Mine is the 4 bolt side cover version. The one Rocknrod posted is the 7 bolt side cover version.

When parked, I always put the truck in reverse and use the emergency brake because putting the transmission in reverse automatically locks the transmission out of overdrive. You can also manually lock the transmission out of overdrive by use of the lockout cable. That's the lever behind the solenoid on the driver's side of the transmission. Usually, you won't lock out the transmission during normal operation, so going slower than about 28 mph, the transmission will freewheel and you won't have any engine braking.

If you drive it with overdrive locked out, the transmission operates as a standard 3 speed transmission and you will have engine braking at all speeds

[Asshat]

Can you post a pic of your dash and how the cable control looks? And, maybe the shifter too?

I'm not sure if this three-speed OD is worth the trouble. Seems like a T5 is more expensive, but a lot easier to implement and use.

There's a lot involved with this conversion:
3-speed shifter, modify trans cover.
cable control
solenoid wiring
kick-down switch/linkage

The driveshaft and trans mount is a given with either 3-speed OD or the T5 trans.




With the overdrive engaged (handle in), the transmission will freewheel below 20-32 mph (depending on the car's rearend gearing), which means the engine will drive the wheels, but when you lift off the throttle the wheels won't spin the engine-the car will coast as there is no engine braking. However, once the car is up to the required miles per hour, the governor closes the electrical circuit, then when the driver momentarily releases the throttle the solenoid locks the sun gear of the planetary set and the transmission shifts into overdrive (which also means there will be compression braking when you let off the gas). Shifting out of overdrive happens one of two ways: slowing down under the governor cut-in speed causes the solenoid to release. Or, if the throttle is floored the kick-down switch is activated. This does two things; it interrupts power to the solenoid and the ignition circuit momentarily. With power to the solenoid cut you would think it would release the sun gear and the transmission would revert to direct drive. But under load the solenoid pin is "trapped" and can't release, so shutting down the ignition system briefly (it's said to be one or two crankshaft revolutions) the load on the solenoid pin is released, it immediately withdraws releasing the sun gear (which means the transmission is in direct drive) and the ignition system is back on all in the blink of an eye.
Thanks to the governor, the transmission will go into overdrive once cut-in speed is achieved, so around town in traffic using overdrive in Second gear is a natural-it's like having an automatic to a certain extent as the transmission will shift back and forth between direct and overdrive as the speed dictates. On the highway, cruising in Third overdrive and stomping on the gas pedal will cause a downshift to direct for passing.
One other peculiarity of these overdrives should be noted. When left in overdrive mode, more than one parked car has been known to roll away. Most transmissions had an internal mechanism to lock out overdrive in reverse, which would keep this from happening, but the only other way to keep the car from rolling in any other gear was to disengage overdrive and make sure the parking brake was operational.

[Desert dog]

Did the 4 speed fail? If so they can be rebuilt fairly easily, or perhaps source another one. There is an SM465 on CL in Tucson for 75 dollars. Although shipping would be costly.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by Desert dog

Did the 4 speed fail? If so they can be rebuilt fairly easily, or perhaps source another one. There is an SM465 on CL in Tucson for 75 dollars. Although shipping would be costly.

The 4-speed I have seems to work. However, there is a lot of noise from the drivetrain. Trying to determine if that is coming from ujoints or ?

I have it up on jackstands now, and I can start it and go through the gears, it all seems ok.

When I drove it, the top speed would only be about 45mph.

[Desert dog]

What happens at 45 mph? Does it run out of power, or is the tranny just too noisy?

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by Desert dog

What happens at 45 mph? Does it run out of power, or is the tranny just too noisy?

It feels like the motor is wound out, but I don’t have a tach, so not sure.

[Desert dog]

Originally Posted by Asshat

It feels like the motor is wound out, but I don’t have a tach, so not sure.

Hmm? Hopefully the clutch isn't slipping. Also these trucks weren't built for speed with the 4:56 gears in the H052 axle.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by Desert dog

Hmm? Hopefully the clutch isn't slipping. Also these trucks weren't built for speed with the 4:56 gears in the H052 axle.

Can the locker be removed from the KS10, so that it is not a posi?

[Desert dog]

Originally Posted by Asshat

Can the locker be removed from the KS10, so that it is not a posi?

Sorry I don't know. Maybe others will chime in.

[cwcarpenter98]

Originally Posted by Asshat

Can you post a pic of your dash and how the cable control looks? And, maybe the shifter too?

I'm not sure if this three-speed OD is worth the trouble. Seems like a T5 is more expensive, but a lot easier to implement and use.

There's a lot involved with this conversion:
3-speed shifter, modify trans cover.
cable control
solenoid wiring
kick-down switch/linkage

The driveshaft and trans mount is a given with either 3-speed OD or the T5 trans.

So my transmission uses the factory 3 speed column shifter and shift arms. Since you have a 4 speed column in your truck right now, you would most likely end up running a floor shifter for the 3 speed.

I do not know if it was factory or dealer installed, but my lockout lever uses the same knob as the rest of them and is installed in the dash. In the picture, the lockout cable is the knob closest to the steering wheel that is pulled out. The shift lever is the rusty/chrome one sticking out the right of the column. I would say that the t5 is comparable in cost to the overdrive. I got my trans for $500, had to get a kickdown switch for around $50, the new yoke for my driveshaft was around $40, the relay to work with the HEI dizzy was another $15 or so, and then I had a couple other small parts and wiring bits along the way. Oh yeah, I haven't even rebuilt the transmission yet. That'll get done eventually

I use the truck as a semi-daily driver and will haul some stuff around when needed. If I was building a truck to do some racing/hot rodding stuff, I would have gone with the t5. I decided to stick with what was most likely original to the truck and what was easiest for me to swap in (didn't have to change shifter linkages or shorten driveshaft, only needed correct slip yoke on driveshaft to work with output shaft of the 65 transmission I got). In the long run, the trans I chose will most likely be more expensive than the t5 because parts are much harder to find or not even produced anymore because it is so old. The t5 was an extremely popular transmission at the time and is still plentiful.

Long story short, since you already have the 4 speed, I would look into either a S10 t5, NV3500, or bump up to the NV4500 if you plan on doing any sort of towing. If all your plan is to have a cool, old cruiser, you won't be disappointed with the T5. Also, member Lugnutz65 has a great write-up on his website about swapping in a t5 (here).

[geezer#99]

A 3 speed floor shifter will need some radical custom mount brackets and linkage rod tweaking to set up. That solenoid is right in the way.
Lack of power like you suggest is sometimes not enough timing.
A low initial setting or stuck weights can result in no timing at speed.
Check your timing and distributor.

[Asshat]

Is there a difference between the Ford T5 and the Chevy T5?
Input/output shaft difference?

Or, is it just the bell housing?